Cruising at $5 per minute

[AmazedByCruising]

I stumbled upon this site https://www.amawaterways.com/ships/zambezi-queen-river-cruise-ship/itineraries/2018 that offers 4 night river cruises for which a couple would pay more than $6000 per night. That's the "from" price. But the drinks are free.

 

What's the reason for such pricing? The crew of 22 are easily paid a very nice salary of $250/day by selling just one stateroom. They have 18 cabins, though. Earning $100K each day, they might be able to buy a complete new ship every 2 months.

 

Is it a very expensive concession allowing them to sail the Chobe river? (btw not the Zambezi river which you'd think). Why can't I find a competitor who offers the exact same cruise at a reasonable $200 per night?

[DarkJedi]

Well, that definitely looks exclusive!

[Twickenham]

Because they can?

 

Salaries are only a small part of a cruise line's expenses. The logistical costs associated with doing business in Africa are considerable.

 

Why is no one offering a cheaper alternative? Because no one has determined that they can do this and make a profit.

[Shorex]

You can book the Zambezi Queen from other vendors - it is not a ship owned/operated by Amawaterways. It is owned by the Mantis Group that has hotels and eco-lodges around the world. Amawaterways merely includes four days on the Queen as part of a larger luxury Africa tour.

 

I see Amawaterways pricing of $9k pp for a tour of 3 nights in Capetown, 4 nights on the Queen, and 2 nights in Victoria Falls. Yes, that's pricey, but no where near $3k pp per night. If you want a luxury tour, you pay luxury prices. If you want a budget tour of Africa, you get budget accommodations.

 

No tour operator needs to justify their pricing, either take it or leave it.

[sloopsailor]

Somewhat related to this thread: people often don't realize how much a cruise costs when all expenses are figured in. Even a 14 night cruise overseas cruise on a mass market cruise line could easily cost a bit more than $27 per hour per couple. That is assuming that each passenger has paid $2,500 for the cruise, which isn't unheard of if it's a balcony cabin and port fees and taxes are factored in. Then there is the cost of excursions, whether private or ship's, souvenirs, meals in port, admission fees to sites, and shipboard extras such as drinks or drink packages if not included, specialty dining, photos, spa treatments, exercise classes, etc. All of this could very easily total about $1,000 per person. Then there is the cost of transportation, including overseas flights, taxis or transfers, and visa costs if any, plus travel insurance costs. Again, that could easily total $1,000 per person. Now we are up to $4,500 per person, or $9,000 per couple. (I am not counting any extra days visiting pre and post cruise in this example)

 

Divide that $9,000 by the length of the cruise in hours. Figure boarding around 3:00 pm on the first day, and disembarking at around 9:00 am on the last day. That end result is being on the cruise for 330 hours. Divide 330 by $9,000 and that couple ends up paying $27.28 an hour for the time they have access to the ship - the actual cruise duration.

 

While not as exorbitant as $5 per minute, it does work out to be $660 per day per couple - or $27.28 per hour. A 7 night cruise with the same conditions and transportation requirements would be even more expensive at $783 per day per couple. That is factoring 1/2 the cost for the cruise, shipboard extras, and expenses while on shore or on excursions because the cruise is 1/2 as long. The transportation costs would stay the same, no matter how long the cruise, since they aren't related to the actual cruise duration. It's those transportation costs that make the shorter cruise more expensive on an hourly basis.

 

These cost calculations are based on several cruises we have taken over the last decade. Most have been 14 night cruises, and our total expenses have in each case fluctuated between $9,000 and $10,000 per cruise.

Edited April 25, 2018 by sloopsailor

[navybankerteacher]

 

...Why can't I find a competitor who offers the exact same cruise at a reasonable $200 per night?

 

The easy answer is: because there are people willing to pay a whole lot more than $200 per night for that "exact same cruise", so only a bunch of lunatics would offer it for $200 per night --- and even then it wouldn't work, because how many people would want to sail the Chobe river on a ship run by a bunch of lunatics - regardless of how cheap it was?

 

Why not start closer to home, and ask why you can't find someone offering Caribbean cruises for $8.75 per night?

[chengkp75]

Sorry, Amazed, you didn't do your due diligence. If that was the price for a 4 night cruise, that would be one thing, but if you actually look at the itinerary, it goes from a 9 night vacation (4 night cruise) at $2200pp per night, to a 16 night vacation (4 night cruise) at less than $1000pp per night. The cruise is a pretty small part of the package, there are several flights, several hotels, all included excursions and safari camps with tours.

[navybankerteacher]

When you take the time to think about it, OP's "reasonable $200 per night" is an absurd ideal.

 

The "per night" rate does not just mean a bunk. It means three meals, drinks, transportation, service, entertainment, etc.

 

When one or more of those elements is of high quality, $200 looks like an unreal bargain.

[Z'Loth]

I have calculated the length of my upcoming cruise, from departure from port of Miami to the return to port of Miami ten days later, at 13,890 minutes. Since I'm paying for a inside cave, that works out to be 13.1 cents per minute, or $7.90 per hour.

 

Now, if I include my flight plus my pre-stay hotel.... thats 20,880 minutes. That works out to be 13.4 cents a minute, or $8.05 per hour.

[geoherb]

Our upcoming 15-day cruise works out to be less than $5 an hour per person including airfare. By the time we add in hotel costs for the six days before the cruise plus meals and excursions, it's going to be more.

[AmazedByCruising]

Sorry, Amazed, you didn't do your due diligence. If that was the price for a 4 night cruise, that would be one thing, but if you actually look at the itinerary, it goes from a 9 night vacation (4 night cruise) at $2200pp per night, to a 16 night vacation (4 night cruise) at less than $1000pp per night. The cruise is a pretty small part of the package, there are several flights, several hotels, all included excursions and safari camps with tours.

 

Yes, I missed somes things, sorry for that and thank you for actually doing the due diligence.

 

Still, the price still seems ridiculous. Of course, it's take it or leave it. Nobody forces me to pay such amount of money, and I couldn't care less when others can and will pay it.

 

Shorex shows cheaper options, but they are also very expensive.

Twickenham mentions logistical costs in Africa. While it's probably cheaper to get beer, food, or detergent to be delivered in Southampton, the Coca Cola in Victoria Falls was cheaper than in my local supermarket. Africa is not the end of the world.

 

My real question was meant to be, are there costs I don't see? Do you need to pay tourist tax for sailing the Chobe river? Do you need a concession that would make you a near-monopolist in the area? (Like camps in Zimbabwe)

[chengkp75]

Yes, I missed somes things, sorry for that and thank you for actually doing the due diligence.

 

Still, the price still seems ridiculous. Of course, it's take it or leave it. Nobody forces me to pay such amount of money, and I couldn't care less when others can and will pay it.

 

Shorex shows cheaper options, but they are also very expensive.

Twickenham mentions logistical costs in Africa. While it's probably cheaper to get beer, food, or detergent to be delivered in Southampton, the Coca Cola in Victoria Falls was cheaper than in my local supermarket. Africa is not the end of the world.

 

My real question was meant to be, are there costs I don't see? Do you need to pay tourist tax for sailing the Chobe river? Do you need a concession that would make you a near-monopolist in the area? (Like camps in Zimbabwe)

 

Who can say? I'm pretty sure that the price of the safari camps is a very large percentage of the overall "cruise" price. It's very hard to determine what the actual cost of the 4 night cruise would be. Actually, I googled the Zambezi Queen, and found that a three night cruise for two is $4500, or $750 per person, per night for just the cruise. One note that I found on one site, is that because the boat is Namibian flag, it can sail the river all night, whereas Botswanan boats must return to their side of the river at night. So, there is a bit of cabotage law that gives them a bit of monopoly.

[AmazedByCruising]

Who can say? I'm pretty sure that the price of the safari camps is a very large percentage of the overall "cruise" price. It's very hard to determine what the actual cost of the 4 night cruise would be. Actually, I googled the Zambezi Queen, and found that a three night cruise for two is $4500, or $750 per person, per night for just the cruise. One note that I found on one site, is that because the boat is Namibian flag, it can sail the river all night, whereas Botswanan boats must return to their side of the river at night. So, there is a bit of cabotage law that gives them a bit of monopoly.

 

Exactly. It must be rules and granted monopolies or something like that. I feel it's impossible that without weird rules, a cruise on the Chobe river (or the Zambezi itself, another puzzle given the name of the ship) would be more expensive to operate than let's say a river cruise in Europe. The latter are a lot cheaper while they'd be paying European wages. Nor would would they need to obey extreme EU rules that probably also forbid the wrong screws in galleys or the treat known as flies that could fall on boxes that contain bottles of whine, which could contaminate the whine after uncorking, which could lead to people getting sick. OK, I'm diverting, but I don't think a boat on the Chobe river is held to such rigor rules. There must be other rules that simply makes it impossible for competitors to offer a much cheaper cruise.

[chengkp75]

Exactly. It must be rules and granted monopolies or something like that. I feel it's impossible that without weird rules, a cruise on the Chobe river (or the Zambezi itself, another puzzle given the name of the ship) would be more expensive to operate than let's say a river cruise in Europe. The latter are a lot cheaper while they'd be paying European wages. Nor would would they need to obey extreme EU rules that probably also forbid the wrong screws in galleys or the treat known as flies that could fall on boxes that contain bottles of whine, which could contaminate the whine after uncorking, which could lead to people getting sick. OK, I'm diverting, but I don't think a boat on the Chobe river is held to such rigor rules. There must be other rules that simply makes it impossible for competitors to offer a much cheaper cruise.

 

Perhaps there is not sufficient demand to allow a competitor into the market and survive long enough to establish themselves with lower prices. The ship appears to be the only ship doing this market, and it only has 14 cabins, so demand can't be that high, or the company that owns it would build another ship.

[SRF]

And then there are the "FEES" that have to be paid by businesses.

 

And in Africa, really 4 and 5 start type accommodations are more expensive than some European cities.

[AmazedByCruising]

Perhaps there is not sufficient demand to allow a competitor into the market and survive long enough to establish themselves with lower prices. The ship appears to be the only ship doing this market, and it only has 14 cabins, so demand can't be that high, or the company that owns it would build another ship.

 

At those prices I think I understand why another extra ship wouldn't be booked.

 

I wonder why this market would be so hard to enter. Customers don't have 5 year contracts, they decide between looking at animals from a ship or seeing the Sixteenth Chapel. Set up a website, tell TA's the same cruises can be booked for half the price and twice the commission, and you're in business. Still earning more than what Viking earns operating a river cruise in Europe.

 

And then there are the "FEES" that have to be paid by businesses.

 

And in Africa, really 4 and 5 start type accommodations are more expensive than some European cities.

 

What kind of fees, do you mean mafia kind? Even then, it should be more profitable to lower the "fee" to allow for many thousands of pax/year instead of a few hundred.

[Shorex]

Several years ago I researched the Zambezi Queen for a segment of a possible safari. It really isn't a cruise ship, it's a house boat. It barely moves a few miles during a stay. Guests board smaller boats to get even closer to elephants and other wildlife. No ports, no river traffic, no towns. Instead of a typical "shore excursion" you can go on a game drive.

 

There are three Chobe Princess house boats that can be chartered for your own party. Or you stay in a lodge on an island on the Chobe River as a base camp for your safaris. All owned and operated by the same company. The closest airport is Kasane in Botswana. Imagine all the whinging on the cruise air board about connections and air fares.

 

All of the criteria and measurements that apply to ocean going vessels, or European-type river boats are irrelevant to this African experience. The target market for the Queen is not price sensitive, they are looking for a quality African safari adventure, not for a low level of per diem expense.

[navybankerteacher]

At those prices I think I understand why another extra ship wouldn't be booked.

 

I wonder why this market would be so hard to enter. Customers don't have 5 year contracts, they decide between looking at animals from a ship or seeing the Sixteenth Chapel. Set up a website, tell TA's the same cruises can be booked for half the price and twice the commission, and you're in business. Still earning more than what Viking earns operating a river cruise in Europe.

 

 

 

What kind of fees, do you mean mafia kind? Even then, it should be more profitable to lower the "fee" to allow for many thousands of pax/year instead of a few hundred.

 

"Sixteenth Chapel"? Are you discussing a tour of somewhat more than a dozen smaller religious buildings?

 

But, back on point: if the experience as structured actually costs more than what many thousand pax/year would pay, lowering the "fee", while a tempting notion, would mean that the experience simply could not exist.

 

Why not suggest that airlines lower the cost of first class seats - so that many more people could enjoy them?

 

The hard fact: real quality costs more than mass market bargain hunters are willing to pay.

[SRF]

What kind of fees, do you mean mafia kind? Even then, it should be more profitable to lower the "fee" to allow for many thousands of pax/year instead of a few hundred.

 

You are not dealing with people who understand economics.

 

Not mafia, "government"

 

Similar, but the one is "legal."

[calliopecruiser]

 

What's the reason for such pricing? The crew of 22 are easily paid a very nice salary of $250/day by selling just one stateroom. They have 18 cabins, though. Earning $100K each day, they might be able to buy a complete new ship every 2 months.

 

Is it a very expensive concession allowing them to sail the Chobe river? (btw not the Zambezi river which you'd think). Why can't I find a competitor who offers the exact same cruise at a reasonable $200 per night?

 

They don't need a "reason", they need to know they can get enough passengers, services, and talented crew to make it a profitable business. I wonder if there's a reason that an 800 sq ft condo apartment in my city costs about $500,000, but it's a combination of supply, demand, and quality. Mostly supply and demand.

 

 

And that doesn't even get into the question of whether or not $200/night is reasonable for a luxury cruise on a unique itinerary. I think your expectation is way off.

[Hlitner]

Why would anyone pay $1000 a night for a hotel room when they can go to a cheap $100 a night hotel? It is the same kind of question. or consider going to your Supermarket and buying a steak. You can get some steak for a pretty low price and others might well cost over $25 a pound. But there is sure a difference when you bite into that meat :).

 

River Boats do not offer the economy of scale one finds on some huge mega cruise ships. The decent River Boat cruises are often more expensive then an ocean cruise...for that simple reason.

 

Hank

[MicCanberra]

Good grief, it must be very expensive to dodge the hippos.