With Prinsendam leaving, will some HAL passengers look elsewhere?

[sammiedawg]

I do not see how any of this matters. HAL, and other cruise lines, are under no obligation to explain to their customers why they withdraw ships from their respective fleets. And even if they were, does anyone really think that they would be provided with the unvarnished truth?

 

Carnival Corporation is a very successful business venture with a hundred plus cruise ships. Does anyone on this forum really think that they know more about operating a cruise ship profitably than this group?

 

I’ve been wanting to say what you wrote.

Sadly, a few forum posters really think they know more than TPTB.

[Sea girl 23]

I’ve been wanting to say what you wrote.

Sadly, a few forum posters really think they know more than TPTB.

 

They're longtime HAL cruisers who feel "slighted" by Holland America and are increasingly venting their spleen.This is just the latest thing that's upsetting.

[OlsSalt]

They're longtime HAL cruisers who feel "slighted" by Holland America and are increasingly venting their spleen.This is just the latest thing that's upsetting.

 

Expressing hostile attitudes towards a loyal customer base remains a winning business strategy. Particularly if you want to kill off the company.

[sail7seas]

We belong to the Prinsendam enthusiasts and have sailed several times on her during the last two years. Before that and in between we have often cruised on Azamara ( mostly the "Journey") and absolutely loved it. The included items ( including quite decent wine and sparkling wine, Cappucinos and Lattes etc.) and included tips are very nice to have, crew and service are absolutely excellent, even better than on HAL ships, and we found the food at least a notch above as well. The theme buffets every night in the Windows Café (similar to the Lido) are really tasty, specialty restaurants are great even if we rarely go as the "free" food is good enough. We like the long port days and overnights, the special "AzAmazing" evening ( examples: a concert, local folklore plus a buffet and fireworks) and the famous White Night Party as well as the general informality on board and the international guests you meet and can talk to will draw us back to Azamara. Just one exampüle for the excellent service: If you order Eggs Benedict on a HAL ship you stand in line in the buffet. If you order it on an Azamara ship in the buffet, you order at the counter and it is served at your table...

 

The only drawback for us was and is the fact that Azamara Cruises has had a price hike these last few years and some cruises, especially the most interesting ones, have become almost not affordable for us. Sometimes there are really good late-minute offers but it doesn't always help if you can cruise ( for example) from Cairns to Singapore for small money if you pay through your nose for the flight.

And one thing that was much better on Prinsendam : cabins on Azamara ships are much smaller - like the colour scheme, though - and the bathrooms are tiny.

Viking Ocean cruises might be another alternative for us but is not offered in my country.And I promised myself to try good old Prinsendam in her new colour scheme ( as Phoenis-Reisen Amera) at least once to compare and find out what has changed...

 

 

Which is your country where Viking cruises are not available?

[sail7seas]

Expressing hostile attitudes towards a loyal customer base remains a winning business strategy. Particularly if you want to kill off the company.

 

 

 

Ahhh, Yes, THat

[iancal]

No doubt HALand Carnival Corp considered the demographic and customer loyalty issues. HAL loyalists are a stoic group and understand that 'ship happens'. Although other more pressing or urgent issues may be behind the decision. There is always the Veendam.

 

There are of course other cruise lines and other cruise ships that cater to, and specialize in this size of ship and these types of itineraries. Why not give them a try? Nothing wrong with voting with your feet and with your wallets.

[sammiedawg]

No doubt HALand Carnival Corp considered the demographic and customer loyalty issues. HAL loyalists are a stoic group and understand that 'ship happens'. Although other more pressing or urgent issues may be behind the decision. There is always the Veendam.

 

There are of course other cruise lines and other cruise ships that cater to, and specialize in this size of ship and these types of itineraries. Why not give them a try? Nothing wrong with voting with your feet and with your wallets.

 

Some don’t want or cannot afford to spend more money.

[navybankerteacher]

No doubt HALand Carnival Corp considered the demographic and customer loyalty issues. HAL loyalists are a stoic group and understand that 'ship happens'. Although other more pressing or urgent issues may be behind the decision. There is always the Veendam.

 

There are of course other cruise lines and other cruise ships that cater to, and specialize in this size of ship and these types of itineraries. Why not give them a try? Nothing wrong with voting with your feet and with your wallets.

 

It is virtually certain that Carnival Corp. has carefully considered the new course being steered by HAL. Yes, they are professionals at running cruise lines and are likely better judges of strategy than the “HAL loyalists” you mention. Still, it is not inconceivable for a corporation to have made a bad call : ever hear of New Coke, Edsel, etc.?

 

But these threads are for people to express opinions - and “HAL loyalists” are as entitled to their opinions as are those who seem to feel that corporate bean counters are smarter than all elements of their markets.

 

HAL has clearly vacated a niche: the SLIGHTLY upscale mass market cruise line serving the Western Hemisphere market. Yes, there is Fred Olsen, Cruise and Maritime, Noble Caledonia, etc. - but where do they sail? And, yes, there are the clearly upscale small ship lines - which are priced well above the mass market, and do not provide a viable option for many.

 

What remains to be seen is whether there will be any need for Carnival to keep the HAL brand at all as it morphs into another Princess, with ever less distinction between it and Carnival. Why should Carnival Corp. stockholders want to maintain extra subsidiary management teams adding costs while offering no visible product differentiation?

 

Has anyone seen a recent model Oldsmobile?

[Storylady]

The reason I liked the Prinsendam was its small size and it’s unique itineraries. I thought this thread was suppose to be about suggesting other cruise lines that have small ships and not cookie cutter cruises that all the big ships are delivering.

 

I have searched for another ship that I would enjoy. While I like the looks of Viking, it’s itineraries are the same as what I can do on big ships. Also, I like the looks of their website. But until they are going to places that a ship their size can go. I am not going to consider them.

 

Oceania, Azamara and Regent all have the same size ship, the old Renaissance ships which you must book a balcony for a reasonable size stateroom. And even that is small if you aren’t a single.

 

We know that we will have to pay more, especially if we do a balcony. But then I really want an excellent itinerary not an itinerary that I can do on a bigger ship. So does anybody have good suggestions other than discussing the finances of keeping or selling the Prinsendam. Those type of posting really belong on the Prinsendam was sold thread.

[Sea girl 23]

There's less a fundamental understanding of why HAL decided to sell Prinsendam and more "why would they do this?"

 

Go right on throwing brickbats at HAL..don't expect them to be sympathetic.

[kazu]

The reason I liked the Prinsendam was its small size and it’s unique itineraries. I thought this thread was suppose to be about suggesting other cruise lines that have small ships and not cookie cutter cruises that all the big ships are delivering.

 

 

 

I have searched for another ship that I would enjoy. While I like the looks of Viking, it’s itineraries are the same as what I can do on big ships. Also, I like the looks of their website. But until they are going to places that a ship their size can go. I am not going to consider them.

 

 

 

Oceania, Azamara and Regent all have the same size ship, the old Renaissance ships which you must book a balcony for a reasonable size stateroom. And even that is small if you aren’t a single.

 

 

 

We know that we will have to pay more, especially if we do a balcony. But then I really want an excellent itinerary not an itinerary that I can do on a bigger ship. So does anybody have good suggestions other than discussing the finances of keeping or selling the Prinsendam. Those type of posting really belong on the Prinsendam was sold thread.

 

 

 

I agree on Viking's itineraries. I'm searching too.

 

From what I have seen so far, Azamara, Crystal, Seabourn & the other luxury lines seem to offer some of what the Prinsendam does.

 

The small Princess ship is an option but so far I haven't seen itineraries that really "call to me".

 

There is something magical about being in a port with yachts and the tender so close that if it wasn't forbidden you could swim there.

 

 

I am very grateful that we did some of these magical ports when we did ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Would Windstar, formerly owned by HAL, and now owned by Xanterra Parks and Resorts, be a comparable line worth trying? I realize they are a different type of cruise, with fewer ships and passengers, but they do some interesting itineraries and their fleet contains the three ships that I think were formerly known as the "Seabourn Little Sisters."

 

I agree with NavyBankerTeacher that HAL has "vacated its niche". Just a couple of months ago, my attitude about HAL was quite different; in fact I would consider myself until that point to have been a HAL loyalist. Now I am booking land-based vacations, and looking at other travel alternatives.

[comcox]

These new ships may interest Prinsendam fans: https://shipmonk.co.uk/2018/02/28/series-of-new-600-passenger-ships-announced-by-fred-olsen-junior-at-launch-of-cruise-lines-2019-20-brochure/

[OlsSalt]

These new ships may interest Prinsendam fans: https://shipmonk.co.uk/2018/02/28/series-of-new-600-passenger-ships-announced-by-fred-olsen-junior-at-launch-of-cruise-lines-2019-20-brochure/

 

Great tip and thanks for this article. Nice to see a CEO who believes in less than luxury small ship cruising as an important market niche. When we were bouncing around the world on the very no-frills Voyages of Discovery we would often run into a Fred Olson ship.

[Storylady]

I agree on Viking's itineraries. I'm searching too.

 

From what I have seen so far, Azamara, Crystal, Seabourn & the other luxury lines seem to offer some of what the Prinsendam does.

 

The small Princess ship is an option but so far I haven't seen itineraries that really "call to me".

 

There is something magical about being in a port with yachts and the tender so close that if it wasn't forbidden you could swim there.

 

 

I am very grateful that we did some of these magical ports when we did ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Thanks Kazu, I agree with you. I loved being in Aalborg, Denmark, where we were the biggest building in town. I really enjoyed the Kiel Canal and going to Hamburg. Visiting Oban Scotland. Cruising up the Shannon River. We will be doing that again on the Prinsendam next spring. Plus, visiting the Outer Hebrides and the Island of Jersey. Going to the Scilly Islands and up the Seine River to Rouen. And my favorite was visiting NY Alesund on the Island of Spitsbergen in the Artic Circle.

 

When we had our Black Sea cruise cancelled, the Prinsendam went to some incredible ports that I have never seen on anyone’s itinerary.

 

I will never forget Captain Riboerts taking us around Booth Island in Antarctica where few ships have been able to go through the ice cluttered Lemaire Channel.

 

I two have looked at Crystal, Seaborn and Azamara. But so far, I have only found maybe a seven day cruise that I might be interested in. We like to be in Europe for at least a month. Please post your future plans on other ships when you find an itinerary that talks to you as I love your choices. Would love to be doing your Prinsendam cruise, but we will have just finished doing the 80day SA. And we need to get home to do taxes and car license plates. Don’t want to go through the hassle we did this year renewing after the World Cruise.

[Storylady]

These new ships may interest Prinsendam fans: https://shipmonk.co.uk/2018/02/28/series-of-new-600-passenger-ships-announced-by-fred-olsen-junior-at-launch-of-cruise-lines-2019-20-brochure/

Thanks, I had looked at Fred Olsen in the past and they did have some nice itineries around Japan that I was interested in that time. But I hadn’t caught the cruising bug. So we didn’t do them.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Storylady

[kazu]

Thanks Kazu, I agree with you. I loved being in Aalborg, Denmark, where we were the biggest building in town. I really enjoyed the Kiel Canal and going to Hamburg. Visiting Oban Scotland. Cruising up the Shannon River. We will be doing that again on the Prinsendam next spring. Plus, visiting the Outer Hebrides and the Island of Jersey. Going to the Scilly Islands and up the Seine River to Rouen. And my favorite was visiting NY Alesund on the Island of Spitsbergen in the Artic Circle.

 

When we had our Black Sea cruise cancelled, the Prinsendam went to some incredible ports that I have never seen on anyone’s itinerary.

 

I will never forget Captain Riboerts taking us around Booth Island in Antarctica where few ships have been able to go through the ice cluttered Lemaire Channel.

 

I two have looked at Crystal, Seaborn and Azamara. But so far, I have only found maybe a seven day cruise that I might be interested in. We like to be in Europe for at least a month. Please post your future plans on other ships when you find an itinerary that talks to you as I love your choices. Would love to be doing your Prinsendam cruise, but we will have just finished doing the 80day SA. And we need to get home to do taxes and car license plates. Don’t want to go through the hassle we did this year renewing after the World Cruise.

 

Oh Sharon, you are bringing memories back - Captain Gundersen (with a pilot) taking us around Fuerteventura (we were the 1st ship to try their new floating dock. I still remember the announcement - "ladies and gentleman, I'm sorry we can't tender today. You will have to walk off" ;)

 

the Kiel Canal is special for sure. A taste of real local people. I do know Azarmara does that as we passed a ship on the canal. Timing had to be perfect for us to both go by and at the perfect junction where it widened. We were so close it felt like we could nearly touch the people on the other ship. We were both happily waving to one another and to all the people on shore who were greeting us.

 

You will LOVE Jersey. I am betting on it. Beautiful.

 

I will happily report when I find something. I'm looking, but a tad picky on my itineraries. I don't mind revisiting a few ports but different is always interesting.

 

We'll enjoy our cruise on her next year and I know you will too.

[cruisemom42]

The reason I liked the Prinsendam was its small size and it’s unique itineraries. I thought this thread was suppose to be about suggesting other cruise lines that have small ships and not cookie cutter cruises that all the big ships are delivering.

 

I have searched for another ship that I would enjoy. While I like the looks of Viking, it’s itineraries are the same as what I can do on big ships. Also, I like the looks of their website. But until they are going to places that a ship their size can go. I am not going to consider them.

 

Oceania, Azamara and Regent all have the same size ship, the old Renaissance ships which you must book a balcony for a reasonable size stateroom. And even that is small if you aren’t a single.

 

We know that we will have to pay more, especially if we do a balcony. But then I really want an excellent itinerary not an itinerary that I can do on a bigger ship. So does anybody have good suggestions other than discussing the finances of keeping or selling the Prinsendam. Those type of posting really belong on the Prinsendam was sold thread.

 

Thank you for trying to get this thread back on track.

 

As the OP, I really wanted to see a discussion of alternatives and an honest assessment of what other HAL cruisers who like the "premise" of Prinsendam are considering after last week's announcement.

 

I don't think it's fair to those of us engaged in this discussion to take it off the rails. There is a lot of good information I've gleaned already and I appreciate all of those responses.

[cruisemom42]

 

There is something magical about being in a port with yachts and the tender so close that if it wasn't forbidden you could swim there.

 

 

 

If you consider Voyages to Antiquity's ship, you can actually sail through the Corinth canal.

 

Not to mention that sometimes we are in ports where the ferries are actually larger than our ship!

 

P.S. I believe they also have an itinerary next year that stops in Ponza... ;)

[K & S]

Inevitab ly, Yes, I think some HAL'ers will move alo g some likely would anyway . Every b usiness expects attrition. Some 'customers go, some come go t he bujsinss. i think HALers may start to leave in 'numbers. '' Some are un willing to live with what HAL is morphing into. I Think the product and 'message has changedt oo much. In some cases, it is the 'people that keep some HAL'ers coming back. That can only continue just so lon.g. IMO HAL has made some very bad mistakes and it might cost them .

The thing is I am not sure they recognize their mis-steps.

My thoughts, also.

[Storylady]

If you consider Voyages to Antiquity's ship, you can actually sail through the Corinth canal.

 

Not to mention that sometimes we are in ports where the ferries are actually larger than our ship!

 

P.S. I believe they also have an itinerary next year that stops in Ponza... ;)

I have had my eye on the Voyage to Antiquities since they first started their Mediterranean cruises. In fact, I own the Book that startered their unique itineries, “Middle Sea”. We will definitely consider them. As we do like to visit some unique ports after having been lucky to cruise in the Med too many times to count. We have been to all the standard ports so none of the big HAL ships have Itineraries that we would consider as they repeat the same ports that we have visited.

[OlsSalt]

Now I wonder if the Maasdam InDepth program was calculated not to create a new niche for HAL, but to harvest out the former Prinsendam loyalists when it was her time to leave the HAL family. The Maasdam does have some very engaging itineraries planned for the next few years, but is still too big to be a real replacement for the up close places the Prinsendam could go.

 

And we know in a few more years the Maasdam and Veendam will leave the HAL fleet too. So it is good to know who else is out there that can still offer the intrigues of small ship, new ports and value pricing. No interest in large ships going where other large ships also go, and no interest in going to where small ships go when they are the same places the large ships go too. "Tramp" ships, figuratively, are my siren call.

[kazu]

If you consider Voyages to Antiquity's ship, you can actually sail through the Corinth canal.

 

Not to mention that sometimes we are in ports where the ferries are actually larger than our ship!

 

P.S. I believe they also have an itinerary next year that stops in Ponza... ;)

 

LOL (as in Lots of Love) on Ponza :)

 

I am taking a hard look at them. I know you have enjoyed them and I think we are quite like minded in itineraries from your posts.

 

Wow on the Corinth Canal, we admired it when we were in Athens and went off the beaten path on our disembarkation day. It was a fabulous day.

 

Thanks :)

[doncarlos]

I too will miss the P'dam. I go back to Royal Viking and Capt. Halle ! However , I like the S and R ships , particularly the R'dam { tho I get nausea thinking of the butchering of the aft of R'dam and Veendam and have a general lack of affection for Lanai, esp. the reduction of deck chairs open to mere mortals}.

 

Like in football you are allowed 3 substitutions [ 4 if extra time ! ] so I have 2 on the bench that I use and like in Cunard and Seabourn , but now need a third . Therefore I have again enbarked on the every 5 year review-study program-seach for a 3rd sub. I am looking at Regent, Silver, Crystal, Oceania and Viking [ Hapag-L scares me as I know only 12 words in German ].

 

 

It is like cars in that for 10 years and 100000 miles I have not followed cars and now I get Consumers Reports April Ed to study [ to prepare for eventual passing on the present coach ] and can't cope with all the choices .

 

 

The bottom line is we have choises , thankfully, but it is hard to face changes !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Storylady]

Thank you for trying to get this thread back on track.

 

As the OP, I really wanted to see a discussion of alternatives and an honest assessment of what other HAL cruisers who like the "premise" of Prinsendam are considering after last week's announcement.

 

I don't think it's fair to those of us engaged in this discussion to take it off the rails. There is a lot of good information I've gleaned already and I appreciate all of those responses.

I tried, but it looks like it got derailed again. Thanks for trying again. I am looking at some of the suggestions people have made. And I see some good possibilities. I really liked a few of the itineraries of the Windstar ships. Thanks for starting this thread. We still will be cruising HAL as we do enjoy the crew. And we do like the S and R class ships.

 

My problem with the Vista class is that it is so large that you meet some interesting and then you never see them again. But I will use them on occasion. As I do like the inside cabins on the main deck.

 

This thread is important as It helps those of us who have only cruised HAL to find some of the other companies that will have interesting itineraries.