With Prinsendam leaving, will some HAL passengers look elsewhere?

[cruisemom42]

I've never sailed on the Prinsendam, but back in 2015 I started taking European river cruises. Much prefer that to staying at resorts, or moving from hotel to hotel in different cities. Ships are small, with most having fewer than 200 passengers. Unpack and re-pack once, just like ocean cruises. They're pricey, but many are all inclusive. I cruise Uniworld, and airport transfer, shore excursions, tips, and alcohol are includes. You can see places and towns not accessible on ocean cruises.

 

Roz

 

Hi Roz -- do you sail solo? I've looked at river cruises but often I've been put off by the lack of any price accommodation at all for solo passengers. I'm not asking for no supplement, but anything short of 200% would make me more likely to try them.

[Roz]

Hi Roz -- do you sail solo? I've looked at river cruises but often I've been put off by the lack of any price accommodation at all for solo passengers. I'm not asking for no supplement, but anything short of 200% would make me more likely to try them.

 

Cruisemom,

 

Yes, I'm a solo cruiser, and if you look beyond Viking River Cruises, there are lots of price breaks for solo cruisers. I've never paid 200% on Uniworld. Vantage offers solo discounts, as does AMA Waterways. Head on over to the River Cruising forum; lots of info there and several regular posters who are solos like me.

 

Roz

[navybankerteacher]

The loss of Prinsendam and the observed, and reported, deterioration of the remaining S and R class ships will definitely spur me to look elsewhere. The Vista class, while larger than ideal, almost made it - but the across the board changes in service, ambience and general quality has negatively impacted them. Their larger new builds do not attract me at all.

 

I will be interested in hearing about Azamera - but am already tending towards more land travel, as cruising -particularly on HAL - has lost its lustre.

[geocruiser]

Princess still has Pacific Princess (592 feet long). Maybe some of you may like her.

[JeffElizabeth]

We love Prinsendam and are booked on one of her final cruises. We have also for the first time booked a cruise on Viking. Slightly larger ship 930 vs. 830 for the HAL ship. Trying out a new line.

[cruisemom42]

Princess still has Pacific Princess (592 feet long). Maybe some of you may like her.

 

To be honest, I'd forgotten that Princess still had one of the R ships. I just looked at her itineraries and likely will book one for 2019. Thanks for mentioning this!

[RuthC]

Of the remaining S- and R- class ships, do any of them stand out in terms of layout, maintenance, itineraries? Any that tend to be least favorites?

The layout of the S- & R-class ships is essentially the same, with the two major exceptions that the R-class ships have a mid-ship staircase/elevator bank, and they also have the Pinnacle in the interior, mid-ship.

The Veendam had it's aft end butchered back in 2009, when its aft pool was eliminated. It also has more lanai cabins than the other ships, making for fewer deck chairs for the non-lanai passengers.

 

I have found the Volendam to have some excellent Asia itineraries. The Rotterdam, too, has been given some nice routes to try, and the Maasdam has the new 21-day Alaska itinerary out of San Francisco. I am booked on one of them.

Amsterdam, of course, does the World Cruise, which has several interesting segments. Next year, which I understand is sold out, the last couple of segments are even heading to northern Europe when the ship leaves the Mediterranean. Very unusual for that cruise.

 

I have considered river cruising, but ruled it out for me. They are not disabled-friendly, even if the boat itself is. The boats can 'raft' in a port, and it's not always possible to leave your boat. Besides, many of them have beds that can't be put together, and if I'm paying for two beds, I'm sleeping in two beds!

 

If you can manage the HAL website (or find a site that's easier to research), it might be worth at least looking at some of HAL's mid-size ships' itineraries. The lecturers on the longer cruises are pretty good.

[Barrheadlass]

I absolutely loved the Prinsendam, but have only sailed on HAL’s smaller ships. Anything over 1200 doesn’t appeal. That said, my husband and I sailed on Oceania in 2014 and said we’d never return to HAL...didn’t find a single fault with O. Unfortunately, he no longer cruises, and I did do the Voyage of the Vikings with HAL 2 years ago with a friend. She and I have also taken two cruises with Hurtigruten, one an “expedition cruise” with hiking, going in zodiacs, etc. It was terrific, but pricey. Later this month I’m taking my third cruise on Grand Circle’s Arethusa. It only holds 50 people. Certainly not fancy like a main stream line, but fun. I’m also fond of river cruises, have done 2 with Uniworld and 5 with Grand Circle. Solo cabins are hard to get, but reasonably priced.

[bluegiraffe]

I think that 'ship happens' much more frequently when cruise lines cut back on standard preventative maintenance practices in order to save money. Or cut back on standard drydock refreshes for the same reason.

 

Sometimes the only people who notice it are the few that on occasion get stuck in non functioning cabins.

 

Bingo! I will add cut back on well-trained staff, too. You won't necessarily notice that unless you're one of the unlucky who has something go wrong, and staff shows no interest in fixing it. :( We were on the Amsterdam last year and had a very good cruise, but I met a passenger who was in a Neptune suite with no A/C for the entire 3 weeks of the cruise. Hotel Director's solution was to give them a fan. It was their first time on HAL and as she said, absolutely their last.

[KirkNC]

Some interesting points and discussion. At this point we are still willing to sail on the R/S class with an occasional larger ships sprinkled in. We are sailing on the Maasdam for three months next fall to see first hand what that will be like. It does have some very unique ports of call. It maybe be heresy but we like some of the changes going on. We have a lot invested in HAL so we will wait before we abandon her.

[OlsSalt]

Some interesting points and discussion. At this point we are still willing to sail on the R/S class with an occasional larger ships sprinkled in. We are sailing on the Maasdam for three months next fall to see first hand what that will be like. It does have some very unique ports of call. It maybe be heresy but we like some of the changes going on. We have a lot invested in HAL so we will wait before we abandon her.

 

HAL could convert all the R/S class ships into the InDepth model since that is a niche no one else is serving at that price point. Then they can chase their tail with the rest of their new mega ships anyway they want.

 

But they have a hidden gem with these older classic ships that needs a new and better marketing angle. Princess only has one and it is hidden and not readily associated with that brand. HAL has six which means targeted marketing for this InDepth branding can be spread over more ships. Looking forward to seeing how this goes in a few more months myself.

 

Any brand loyalty I continue to have for HAL came 99% from our R/S travels. They have been a wow! And they don't need to compete with the mega ship dazzles. They just need to sail to interesting places with interesting InDepth offerings. Like they always have in the past.

[Scrapnana]

 

 

the luxury lines can have some good sales and with the all inclusive factor, the price may not be as bad as it sounds (I'm not sure how the solo supplement works though).

 

I prefer longer cruises and I have gotten quotes from some of the luxury lines. They have all been 200% (there are some with less of a single supplement but they are for short cruises). Although their per person rates are not too bad because of the all inclusive perks on them, I cannot take two tours at the same time, drink twice as much, or need first class or business airfare for two.

[cruisemom42]

I prefer longer cruises and I have gotten quotes from some of the luxury lines. They have all been 200% (there are some with less of a single supplement but they are for short cruises). Although their per person rates are not too bad because of the all inclusive perks on them, I cannot take two tours at the same time, drink twice as much, or need first class or business airfare for two.

 

Which ones have you found to have solo discounts for shorter cruises? That's still my "beat" for now.

[cruisingxpert]

Which ones have you found to have solo discounts for shorter cruises? That's still my "beat" for now.

 

Check out Oceania Cruises home page and click on Offers. There are 32 Cruises with a single supplement. Generally, it’s 150% for a category A which are Concierge cabins.

I prefer Oceania now although I still come back to HAL on occasion.

 

Catherine

[AncientWanderer]

We have a Viking cruise booked. They may be too informal for us. We'll see.

Our daughter has high praise for Oceania and I respect her opinion. So far, I've been confused by their booking packages, so haven't given them a try, but we intend to.

[grayjay]

We belong to the Prinsendam enthusiasts and have sailed several times on her during the last two years. Before that and in between we have often cruised on Azamara ( mostly the "Journey") and absolutely loved it. The included items ( including quite decent wine and sparkling wine, Cappucinos and Lattes etc.) and included tips are very nice to have, crew and service are absolutely excellent, even better than on HAL ships, and we found the food at least a notch above as well. The theme buffets every night in the Windows Café (similar to the Lido) are really tasty, specialty restaurants are great even if we rarely go as the "free" food is good enough. We like the long port days and overnights, the special "AzAmazing" evening ( examples: a concert, local folklore plus a buffet and fireworks) and the famous White Night Party as well as the general informality on board and the international guests you meet and can talk to will draw us back to Azamara. Just one exampüle for the excellent service: If you order Eggs Benedict on a HAL ship you stand in line in the buffet. If you order it on an Azamara ship in the buffet, you order at the counter and it is served at your table...

 

The only drawback for us was and is the fact that Azamara Cruises has had a price hike these last few years and some cruises, especially the most interesting ones, have become almost not affordable for us. Sometimes there are really good late-minute offers but it doesn't always help if you can cruise ( for example) from Cairns to Singapore for small money if you pay through your nose for the flight.

And one thing that was much better on Prinsendam : cabins on Azamara ships are much smaller - like the colour scheme, though - and the bathrooms are tiny.

Viking Ocean cruises might be another alternative for us but is not offered in my country.And I promised myself to try good old Prinsendam in her new colour scheme ( as Phoenis-Reisen Amera) at least once to compare and find out what has changed...

[KirkNC]

Viking is an interesting dilemma for us. We usually book inside cabins so a Viking cruise is 2 or 3 times more expensive for us. Not keen on the included Tours (I know we don’t have to go but we are paying for them), not keen on the contemporary look either. We do LOVE the ship size.

[Cruzin Terri]

I wouldn’t give up on Oceania. We have taken two cruises on O. One on the Insignia and one on the Riviera. We will be sailing on the Riviera again next week.

They have great itineraries and there are lots of things included that HAL charges extra for.

 

We personally liked the Insignia (smaller ship) better. It held 684 passengers. We were on for 19 days and by the end we felt we knew most on board. I would not hesitate to go back on another O cruise.

 

We have had only good experiences on Oceania.

 

I wish I could say the same for the last few HAL cruises we have taken.

Terri

[cruisemom42]

I wouldn’t give up on Oceania. We have taken two cruises on O. One on the Insignia and one on the Riviera. We will be sailing on the Riviera again next week.

 

We personally liked the Insignia (smaller ship) better. It held 684 passengers. We were on for 19 days and by the end we felt we knew most on board. I would not hesitate to go back on another O cruise.

 

Terri

 

Thanks -- I am definitely a small ship enthusiast. Even Prinsendam, believe it or not, will seem a bit large compared with the 350 passenger Aegean Odyssey! I'm glad to hear that the smaller O ships are a viable option. I will be on one of the Azamara ships of the same size this fall on a cruise to Cuba to see what I think.... And I also will likely be booking a cruise on Princess' last remaining ship of that category in 2019.

[RDC1]

HAL could convert all the R/S class ships into the InDepth model since that is a niche no one else is serving at that price point. Then they can chase their tail with the rest of their new mega ships anyway they want.

 

But they have a hidden gem with these older classic ships that needs a new and better marketing angle. Princess only has one and it is hidden and not readily associated with that brand. HAL has six which means targeted marketing for this InDepth branding can be spread over more ships. Looking forward to seeing how this goes in a few more months myself.

 

Any brand loyalty I continue to have for HAL came 99% from our R/S travels. They have been a wow! And they don't need to compete with the mega ship dazzles. They just need to sail to interesting places with interesting InDepth offerings. Like they always have in the past.

One might consider the reason for no one else sailing those size ships at that price point is that it is not very profitable and larger ships are supporting the smaller ones

[OlsSalt]

One might consider the reason for no one else sailing those size ships at that price point is that it is not very profitable and larger ships are supporting the smaller ones

 

How would we ever find out? Or whether HAL is carrying its own weight among the rest of the CCL family since the CCL Annual Report is a consolidated return only for the entire company, not individual cruise lines.

 

And even the Annual Report admitted they have no way of tracking P/L on individual ships. Yet "decisions" are being made somehow. What facts drive those decisions when they admit up front they have no facts.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

How would we ever find out? Or whether HAL is carrying its own weight among the rest of the CCL family since the CCL Annual Report is a consolidated return only for the entire company, not individual cruise lines.

 

And even the Annual Report admitted they have no way of tracking P/L on individual ships. Yet "decisions" are being made somehow. What facts drive those decisions when they admit up front they have no facts.

 

Trust me - they HAVE the facts ...... they are just not required by law to disclose them on their public reports due to the corporate structure, so deny they ability to do so. Much the same way as airlines do not report Profit/Loss on individual routes/hubs, but internally these corporations all know where they are bleeding money and where they are raking it in .......

 

If HAL/Princess were raking in the $$$ on Prinsendam and Pacific Princess then Carnival Corp would be building new ships for this size/market segment for these brands. The fact that they are not speaks volumes.

[OlsSalt]

Trust me - they HAVE the facts ...... they are just not required by law to disclose them on their public reports due to the corporate structure, so deny they ability to do so. Much the same way as airlines do not report Profit/Loss on individual routes/hubs, but internally these corporations all know where they are bleeding money and where they are raking it in .......

 

There is having the facts versus pro-actively stating to shareholders up front they have no facts and they have no means to even find the facts. CLL is looking slimier all the time.

 

Explain more why "we should trust you". Facts only, please.

[Roz]

With the advent of computerized accounting systems and data collection methods, trust me, one thing both the public and private sectors doesn't lack is DATA. There is more data out there than anyone knows what to do with. The bean counters are salivating. Not only do they have data for individual ships, they have the data by cabin category, by type and length of itinerary, by time of year, etc. They also have data for individual passengers, and can compare first time passengers' spending to those on board who are 4 and 5 star Mariners.

 

Roz

[OlsSalt]

With the advent of computerized accounting systems and data collection methods, trust me, one thing both the public and private sectors doesn't lack is DATA. There is more data out there than anyone knows what to do with. The bean counters are salivating. Not only do they have data for individual ships, they have the data by cabin category, by type and length of itinerary, by time of year, etc. They also have data for individual passengers, and can compare first time passengers' spending to those on board who are 4 and 5 star Mariners.

 

Roz

 

Wy do you think CCL went out of its way in the last Annual Report to affirmatively state they had no means of collecting the costs of operations for individual ships?

 

I agree, they should have this data, exactly as you state. But why lie upfront they have no means of tracking the overall costs of operations for each ship, which would be a reflection of how much money they make off each passenger.