Edge Overpriced???

[RDC1]

1 hour ago, BeeMinor said:

 

Digging in a little bit that average income is calculated for 16-34-year-olds. I would expect the incomes of high school and college students to make it artificially low. And it's not like X has to appeal to the average person in their 20s or 30s. They need to appeal to the relatively high-earning person who takes a vacation once or twice a year. As a 38-year-old I'm technically months too old to be a millennial, but I know plenty of people my age and in their earlier 30s who could afford to sail the Edge at current prices. Whether they would want to sail the Edge at current prices is a completely different question. If X is trying to draw in non-cruisers in their 30s for a Caribbean cruise, they're competing with getting an AirBnb in St. Lucia or booking at a beach resort in Tulum, and even factoring in food, drinks, etc.--that's less than the Edge. People I know in their 30s who do cruise do so because it's fun and it's easy and it offers value, but I'm not sure that the value proposition is there on the Edge.

Pew research, where the numbers come from use 18 to 35 so post high school.

 

 

There are still the facts that millennial income lags previous generations by 20% at similar age, and as a group have the highest debt levels of any of the generations.  

 

That is not to say that there not successful people in the group, but over all the group is not doing well compared to previous groups at that age.

 

I did look up the 50 percentile income level by age covering that span

 

Age 22  19,000

25          30,000

30          40,000

35          45,000

 

At the 80 percentile you have 

 

Age 25      50,000

30              67,000

35              81,000

 

90 Percentile

 

Age 25    70,000

30            90,000

35           105,000

 

[BeeMinor]

26 minutes ago, RDC1 said:

There are still the facts that millennial income lags previous generations by 20% at similar age, and as a group have the highest debt levels of any of the generations.  

 

That is not to say that there not successful people in the group, but over all the group is not doing well compared to previous groups at that age.

 

I certainly don't disagree that the generational wage gap and wealth inequality tied to the increased burden of student loans and the rise in housing costs, among other things, exists and is problematic. But based on my Instagram feed alone I can promise you that people in their 20s and 30s are able to go on vacation, including people with student loan debt and jobs that don't require an MBA. Even if you limit Edge affordability to the top 20% of households from the list posted above I believe that gives you a potential market of about 15 million Americans, not counting people in their (gasp) 40s and up who might enjoy the ship's vibe. It's not like you can't enjoy a certain design style or music or art or food or whatever because you remember what a dial-up modem sounds like.

 

Still not sure that means the ship is worth what X is charging though. We'll be on board in a few weeks and will find out--we booked in March 2017 so we're not paying the premium fare, and we would not have booked in at the $5k+ pp our sky suite is now priced at. 

[kearney]

5 hours ago, Pennstateman said:

Aren’t free cruises part of the proposals I just heard about that go with free health care, free college, free student debt forgiveness?

Now " free cruises" is a platform I could vote for :) 

Something to consider regarding millennial incomes... Celebrity is not aiming at the average millennial... they are aiming to the top end, which is likely doing very well... even with loans.... perhaps mom and dad paid for their college.

 

[RDC1]

3 hours ago, BeeMinor said:

 

I certainly don't disagree that the generational wage gap and wealth inequality tied to the increased burden of student loans and the rise in housing costs, among other things, exists and is problematic. But based on my Instagram feed alone I can promise you that people in their 20s and 30s are able to go on vacation, including people with student loan debt and jobs that don't require an MBA. Even if you limit Edge affordability to the top 20% of households from the list posted above I believe that gives you a potential market of about 15 million Americans, not counting people in their (gasp) 40s and up who might enjoy the ship's vibe. It's not like you can't enjoy a certain design style or music or art or food or whatever because you remember what a dial-up modem sounds like.

 

Still not sure that means the ship is worth what X is charging though. We'll be on board in a few weeks and will find out--we booked in March 2017 so we're not paying the premium fare, and we would not have booked in at the $5k+ pp our sky suite is now priced at. 

Yes, however the topic is "Edge Overpriced?" so when you consider the relative cost of Edge compared to other cruising options, the apparent focus on the much younger demographic, potentially alienating much of the existing passenger base, coupled with the relative income of that demographic, the build of additional ships along the design of the Edge (not just one ship they have to fill), it does seem that Edge is in fact over priced, even if it is successful in attracting the new demographic.

 

 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

6 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

 

Why does everyone think all millenials are the same? 

 

There are millenials with high disposable income.  Some of them are interested in cruising.  Which ship caters to them?  Celebrity identified a niche that wasn't being served. 

 

 

I don't think Millennials are all the same.  I also don't think that Millennials with money, already interested in cruising, are all the same.  The Edge is no longer 2 years away, that was the speculation phase, which is now over, and now we're moving into hard evidence.  I'll put my trust in authentic Millennial interpretation of Edge (those who never batted an eye at X), over baby boom speculation, that they'll come around.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Luvcrusn]

I could care less whether X is targeting Millennials, Baby Boomers, Sultans, Oil Barons, or the top 2%. What I care about is value to me. (Yes, selfish I know) If the price asked is appealing, I'll book the cruise, if not, I'll find another vacation option. Right now, Edge prices are not appealing to me. I am also not so curious that I must pay a premium to experience something just because it's the next new thing.

[villauk]

2 hours ago, Luvcrusn said:

I could care less whether X is targeting Millennials, Baby Boomers, Sultans, Oil Barons, or the top 2%. What I care about is value to me. (Yes, selfish I know) If the price asked is appealing, I'll book the cruise, if not, I'll find another vacation option. Right now, Edge prices are not appealing to me. I am also not so curious that I must pay a premium to experience something just because it's the next new thing.

 

 

I think you mean that you couldn’t care less; I agree with personal worth, it does come down to self value. From the reports on here though, it’s not sailing full, even with all the free cruises X appeared to have handed out!

[Caymus88]

Yes the Edge is sailing not full.  On my

cruise Feb 10 last time I checked there were over a 100 cabins vacant. Mostly inside.

that was a week ago

i think it’s way overpriced.

I booked it just in time to have to pay so we’re going

The ship description was not as listed. 

Which I found out after I paid

Edited February 1, 2019 by Caymus88

[kearney]

28 minutes ago, Caymus88 said:

Yes the Edge is sailing not full.  On my

cruise Feb 10 last time I checked there were over a 100 cabins vacant. Mostly inside.

that was a week ago

i think it’s way overpriced.

I booked it just in time to have to pay so we’re going

The ship description was not as listed. 

Which I found out after I paid

Before our Dec 16 sailing, I did the same thing...on that cruise there were over 130 veranda cabins left... a few ocean view... no inside as I recall. What seemed to be selling out were the low to mid end suites... the low end verandas, sunset verandas, ocean view and inside... interestingly the aquas were almost sold out a week before. When on board, ran into a fellow with an issue on his cabin... he was told they were sold out. Now I suspect they meant sold out of his class cabin vs sold out the ship. As has been discussed before, I assume that they want to maintain the premium and use perks to try to fill cabins. I like the ship I even liked most things about IV cabin... but I can not justify the price. In fact we have decided to remodel a bathroom and forgo an Edge cruise or two other cruises. We have one scheduled on Celebrity... price okay... not great... but we have time to reconsider.

[Pennstateman]

1 hour ago, Caymus88 said:

Yes the Edge is sailing not full.  On my

cruise Feb 10 last time I checked there were over a 100 cabins vacant. Mostly inside.

that was a week ago

i think it’s way overpriced.

I booked it just in time to have to pay so we’re going

The ship description was not as listed. 

Which I found out after I paid

awesome!

more room for me!

[Luvcrusn]

8 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

I think you mean that you couldn’t care less; I agree with personal worth, it does come down to self value. From the reports on here though, it’s not sailing full, even with all the free cruises X appeared to have handed out!

 

10 hours ago, Luvcrusn said:

I could care less whether X is targeting Millennials, Baby Boomers, Sultans, Oil Barons, or the top 2%. What I care about is value to me. (Yes, selfish I know) If the price asked is appealing, I'll book the cruise, if not, I'll find another vacation option. Right now, Edge prices are not appealing to me. I am also not so curious that I must pay a premium to experience something just because it's the next new thing.

Villauk, you're right! It would have been clearer to say I don't care whether.... But the rest stands. The current pricing makes Edge sailings unattractive to us.  We'd prefer two weeks on any S class ship or another cruise line to one on Edge, and don't care for the Infinite Verandas.

[DaCruiseBug]

We're going to probably book the Summit out of PR in April. For $2,800 we're getting an Aqua class cabin with perks. On the Edge you can't even get an inside cabin for that amount.

[Caymus88]

I checked last night for empty cabins on my Feb 10 sailing. There were 78 vacancies. In almost every category. Even one penthouse.

under cabin descriptions they have added -the captain may lock the infinity window in times of adverse weather.

of course I have an IV. 

I have a HAL cruise booked with a suite for less than half my Edge IV

so yes I think it’s overpriced.

but keeping my hopes up.  Con

[Caymus88]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:37 PM, hcat said:

 

Just looked at an old travel  folder.  In Oct 2017, we did a 10 night ABC cruise in AQ  on the Infinity...  Price was $2099 pp, with Classic bev .  It was a great cruise, but an older ship..AC completely conked out sev times towards the end, sewage smells in hallways and mildew issue in  bathroom..

 

For the higher fare in 2019, we expect  innovation on EDGE, no mildew and funtional AC. Everything brand new!

 

Nicer/ newer  ships command higher fares!  EDGE is no exception!

 

But we plan to revisit EQUINOX and SILHO..two favs! M Class is out fir us unless the plumbing and AC  systems are upgraded

Apparently the sewage smells come with even new ships

 

[UnorigionalName]

Despite all the doom and gloom about millenials, yes they cruise, yes the spend money, and yes their money is as good as yours, or maybe even more since they have more years to go.

 

Avg age of cruisers might be lower than you expect, and is going down

http://www.windrosenetwork.com/The-Cruise-Industry-Demographic-Profiles

 

Millenials make up as large or larger of a portion than baby boomers, and it's just going to continue

https://www.statista.com/statistics/705071/royal-caribbean-international-users-in-the-us-by-age/

 

Millenials spend similarly on vacation to baby boomers, less than genx'ers which you expect

https://www.statista.com/statistics/456160/travel-spending-us-by-age-group/

 

"MILLENIALS RAISE THE SALES The percent of Millennials who “definitely will” book a cruise for their next trip increased from 63% to 70% this year. We are also seeing millennials develop a taste for luxury. Their share of the Premium and Luxury segments is higher than average for these segments."

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/consumer-research/2018-clia-travel-report.pdf

 

I like how so many people in this forum think that they know better than a large company that I am sure does their research.

Edited February 5, 2019 by UnorigionalName

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

I like how so many people in this forum think that they know better than a large company that I am sure does their research.

 

Yep, there's certainly a market, and millennials are a force to be reckoned with in the travel industry.  The next step is developing the right product, and effectively marketing it to them.  Did extensive research go into the development of the Magic Carpet, Eden, and IV, as clever draws to this demographic?  Time will certainly tell.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Stateroom_Sailor

[tallnthensome]

6 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

"MILLENIALS RAISE THE SALES The percent of Millennials who “definitely will” book a cruise for their next trip increased from 63% to 70% this year. We are also seeing millennials develop a taste for luxury. Their share of the Premium and Luxury segments is higher than average for these segments."

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/consumer-research/2018-clia-travel-report.pdf

 

I like how so many people in this forum think that they know better than a large company that I am sure does their research.

Choosing to cruise premium/luxury for millennials doesn't mean they will overpay and cruise the Celebrity Edge specifically. That note could suggest any premium line on any ship. We are talking about the Edge here and it's current pricing. Most everyone agrees it is overpriced and by your statement Celebrity is a large company and doesn't make mistakes. I disagree ..... Celebrity could charge whatever price they wanted for the Edge. If they really wanted to target millennials they could have started week long cruises in a more reasonable price range comparatively speaking to start out to attract that segment. Instead they started out 40% higher and continue to raise the prices. Sure, they still have the older demographic and X loyals that will pay those prices but new millennial cruisers will still be the minority  ......... If prices come back to reality they'll have a better chance of accomplishing what they set out to do .

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Choosing to cruise premium/luxury for millennials doesn't mean they will overpay and cruise the Celebrity Edge specifically. That note could suggest any premium line on any ship. We are talking about the Edge here and it's current pricing. Most everyone agrees it is overpriced and by your statement Celebrity is a large company and doesn't make mistakes. I disagree ..... Celebrity could charge whatever price they wanted for the Edge. If they really wanted to target millennials they could have started week long cruises in a more reasonable price range comparatively speaking to start out to attract that segment. Instead they started out 40% higher and continue to raise the prices. Sure, they still have the older demographic and X loyals that will pay those prices but new millennial cruisers will still be the minority  ......... If prices come back to reality they'll have a better chance of accomplishing what they set out to do .

 

Millennials are already lined up for their Black Friday deals on Edge.

 

 

[villauk]

9 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

Despite all the doom and gloom about millenials, yes they cruise, yes the spend money, and yes their money is as good as yours, or maybe even more since they have more years to go.

 

I like how so many people in this forum think that they know better than a large company that I am sure does their research.

 

 

So where are they all on Edge?  None of the current photos of actual sailings show these hoards of millennials onboard her and why is Edge continually sailing with so many available cabins/suites? Additionally, if you’re that interested in Edge, I take it you booked as soon as the deployment was released?

 

I personally couldn’t care less which demographic sails on her because I’d still want a proper balcony whatever age I was (if I was paying for it) and I’d have to see value for my money (definitely not the case on the European pricing)!

[Sandy1975]

I am in my early 40s so if you want to put a label, I am a Gen X. I am so looking forward my trip on the edge.  Everything looks fabulous and I think it fits my taste better in terms of music and entertainment  than the vibe on the S class (basedon what I read). I will definitely miss WC bar and potentially a true balcony but I am going in with an open mind about it.  I think at today's prices it is overpriced. My A1 room is going for close to 9000 with 4 perks, about 2.75 times more thanwhat I paid and I have 3 perks + nice OBC. I think for that kind of money there are better vacations I can take. 

I think this ship is geared towards both millennial and gen x  with healthy disposable income but time will tell. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Sandy1975

[villauk]

3 minutes ago, Sandy1975 said:

I am in my early 40s so if you want to put a label, I am a Gen X. I am so looking forward my trip on the edge.  Everything looks fabulous and I think it fits my taste better in terms of music and entertainment  than the vibe on the S class (basedon what I read). I will definitely miss WC bar and potentially a true balcony but I am going in with an open mind about it.  I think at today's prices it is overpriced. My A1 room is going for close to 9000 with 4 perks, about 2.75 times more thanwhat I paid and I have 3 perks + nice OBC. I think for that kind of money there are better vacations I can take. 

I think this ship is geared towards both millennial and gen x but time will tell.

 

 

I’m also in the Gen X bracket as others posting on this board, but it all comes down to whether it’s of personal value to you. There will be all age ranges travelling onboard and I would hope they feel the extortionate pricing is of value to them, for whatever reason.

[Sandy1975]

1 minute ago, villauk said:

 

 

I’m also in the Gen X bracket as others posting on this board, but it all comes down to whether it’s of personal value to you. There will be all age ranges travelling onboard and I would hope they feel the extortionate pricing is of value to them, for whatever reason.

True

[Stateroom_Sailor]

I'm Gen X, and the value is just not there for me, no matter how much I liked or disliked these new features.  I see 7 night Crystal Cruises Line sailings staring at 2K per person, which I would be much more curious about for the money.  Plus Bank of America usually has a promo of 10% off with their credit cards.

[bkbarrym]

Time will tell whether the X marketing Gurus have nailed their target demographic. Regardless of demographic the Edge is still way overpriced. 

We prefer Celebrity and have booked a European cruise for 2020 primarily based on the itinerary. It so happens it is on the Edge.  The price is around 40% higher than a similar itinerary and category (balcony) on HAL Konigsdam. We would like to try the Edge but not at this premium. Would definitely sail an S or M class on same itinerary for more reasonable pricing. We have until next March till final payment and  will monitor pricing, hoping it will come down. Depending on where that lies we will either lock in or consider alternatives.

[UnorigionalName]

6 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

So where are they all on Edge?  None of the current photos of actual sailings show these hoards of millennials onboard her and why is Edge continually sailing with so many available cabins/suites? Additionally, if you’re that interested in Edge, I take it you booked as soon as the deployment was released?

 

I personally couldn’t care less which demographic sails on her because I’d still want a proper balcony whatever age I was (if I was paying for it) and I’d have to see value for my money (definitely not the case on the European pricing)!

 

I think you have a serious misunderstanding on how cruise prices work.  No modern cruise ships sails with significant numbers of empty rooms.  That is a waste of money.  The price is constantly updated based on bookings compared to models.  The fact that there is such a premium represents the opposite, that the demand is above normal.  You think they are stupid and just raise prices with decreased demand?  I can't find the quote but I remember there was an interview with either the RC or Celebrity CEO saying profits were higher than expected due to the higher premiums they were able to charge for Edge.  They don't just chose a price and sit back and twiddle their fingers.

 

The fact that there are 100 rooms you can choose don't necessarily mean that they are all unsold. They may be sold and just unallocated.

 

I think this board does not represent the crusing population overall, especially compared to that pdf i linked (https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/consumer-research/2018-clia-travel-report.pdf).  When you are on a cruise you mostly run into people with similar schedule that you have, so like the similar demographic.  Like if you are the type that goes to diner early and goes to sleep and wakes up early to go sunbathe or go excursion you aren't going to be hanging out with those that go to the late dinner and then go to the bars/casino/venues until late at night.  So everyone's view of the cruise demographic is biased.  There are also a lot more rich european and asian's on these more premium cruises that isn't reflected at all here.

 

I think also a lot of the target population is waiting for the prices to come down.  The prices are high not because celebrity is arbitrarily making it high, but because of high demand.  I also wonder what the normal timeline for booking cruises is between ages.  I suspect younger people live more flexible lives and schedules and tend to book cruises much later than traditionally.  Maybe after all the people who don't like the changes stop going and chose other lines then the people who enjoy it can start enjoying it.

 

I personally think it's brilliant and I suspect it will do well.  Just imagine it the other way around, if you are the target audience.  If you are a young professional, young genx/millenial/old geny, making >$100k a year, living in a metropolitan city with certain expectations of decor and food, more independent to whom good service means something different than traditionally.  What cruise line caters to this demographic?  What if you want to go slightly upscale from norwegian?   

Edited February 5, 2019 by UnorigionalName