Edge Overpriced???

[Orator]

Stock is up big on earnings Richard Fain was on CNBC earlier today and said that future bookings are at a record high. People are paying for the experience. Major increase in China market due to expanding Middle Class. Prices might be high for me, but there are enough people who are more than willing to pay for the cruising experience.

[verizon]

56 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

My youngest daughter is a Millennial and she is a lawyer who owns her own home as do her friends, and do our Millennial friends we know. Your expereince with Millennials, whether relatives or friends, appears to differ from mine. And they are starting to cruise more and don’t appear to be looking at discount cruises that you think they belong on - our daughter and two couples are booking on a 2-week NE/Canadian Celebrity cruise which isn’t cheap. 

 

When we started to cruise, we weren’t much older than the current Millennials and I got very tired of the music set to the ‘Greatest Generation’ period very quickly. Then they marketed us; then a bit younger and so on. Life as we age. 

 

I can’t believe someone would think a company should ignore upcoming cruisers based on silly cartoon caricatures. 

 

Den

 

 

Life is too short,you can't bring with you.

[tallnthensome]

52 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

My youngest daughter is a Millennial and she is a lawyer who owns her own home as do her friends, and do our Millennial friends we know. Your expereince with Millennials, whether relatives or friends, appears to differ from mine. And they are starting to cruise more and don’t appear to be looking at discount cruises that you think they belong on - our daughter and two couples are booking on a 2-week NE/Canadian Celebrity cruise which isn’t cheap. 

 

When we started to cruise, we weren’t much older than the current Millennials and I got very tired of the music set to the ‘Greatest Generation’ period very quickly. Then they marketed us; then a bit younger and so on. Life as we age. 

 

I can’t believe someone would think a company should ignore upcoming cruisers based on silly cartoon caricatures. 

 

Den

 

 

Of course there are exceptions to anything but let's be realistic here ...... New or even experienced cruising millennials in general don't go to Celebrity for their cruises. They go to Carnival, Royal, and NCL. Celebrity,  HAL, and Princess still have and will have an older demographic for some time.  For those millenials that do, it's a great experience for sure and kudos to them. 

[bkbarrym]

25 minutes ago, Orator said:

Stock is up big on earnings Richard Fain was on CNBC earlier today and said that future bookings are at a record high. People are paying for the experience. Major increase in China market due to expanding Middle Class. Prices might be high for me, but there are enough people who are more than willing to pay for the cruising experience.

$25 refundable deposits can help drive those future booking numbers. As well as the introduction of 2 new ships.

[Denny01]

5 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

Of course there are exceptions to anything but let's be realistic here ...... New or even experienced cruising millennials in general don't go to Celebrity for their cruises. They go to Carnival, Royal, and NCL. Celebrity,  HAL, and Princess still have and will have an older demographic for some time.  For those millenials that do, it's a great experience for sure and kudos to them. 

I am being realistic. They are not exceptions, they are the norm, not your ‘home with mom and dad’ model. They are outgrowing Carnival after their 2nd cruise just as we did.  Your idea of staying with the current customer base is dead end. Sticking with us Baby Boomers as the focus will end up losing business because there is only so many electric scooters these ships can handle!.....see, we can all make silly generalizations. 

 

Den

[TardisDance]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:14 PM, tallnthensome said:

I'm not sure why Celebrity wants to target Millenials with an overly expensive cruise ..... They are not known to be a wealthy generation. They are generally lazy, broke, make low wages, and live with mom and dad. They'd be better off on the MSC Seaside, which we loved btw. The millennial cruiser could do three week long cruises on the Seaside compared to one week on the Edge and have just as much fun. In all reality Celebrity should have went the other way with more affordable cruises, not more expensive. I doubt any of the sailings are full of young, skinny, beautiful millennials as seen in their promo videos.  

You do realize Millenials can be as young as 23 and as old as 38, right?  It's a very large age range to generalize. 

[DaCruiseBug]

If cruise lines are marketing millennials there must be a reason.

 

There are about 75 million millennials versus 80 million baby boomers. You get a millennial hooked now and you have business from them for the next 50+ years. Baby boomers...they already know where they're at and many are getting to the point where they have health issues that prevent them from doing much traveling.

[crusinthrough]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:35 PM, kelmac said:

 

Ship wide, we prefer the uncrowded modern feel of Celebrity.  MSC ships can be crowded and have an international NCL like feel to them.  I'm not sure I would do a non-yacht club cruise on MSC, but their ships are beautiful?

 

I would not compare Celebrity to MSC.  MSC (even YC) is more comparable to RC.

 

Prices on the Edge have come down but it's still overpriced.  In late 2020 no S class ship  is doing 7 night itineraries in the Caribbean.  If you want a newer ship you have to go with Celebrity Edge or Celebrity Apex.  This almost forces you to pay the price if you want a shorter Caribbean cruise on Celebrity,

Edited January 31, 2019 by crusinthrough

[RDC1]

2 hours ago, TardisDance said:

You do realize Millenials can be as young as 23 and as old as 38, right?  It's a very large age range to generalize. 

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-average-millennial-income-4171296

 

A couple of highlights from the article millennials make 20% less than did boomers at the same age (adjusted).

More millennials are in poverty line then other generations.

plus high debt levels, low home ownership rates, etc.

 

Boomers and other generations also covered long periods, but one must start somewhere when slicing demographics.

Edited January 31, 2019 by RDC1

[yorky]

5 hours ago, Denny01 said:

I am being realistic. They are not exceptions, they are the norm, not your ‘home with mom and dad’ model. They are outgrowing Carnival after their 2nd cruise just as we did.  Your idea of staying with the current customer base is dead end. Sticking with us Baby Boomers as the focus will end up losing business because there is only so many electric scooters these ships can handle!.....see, we can all make silly generalizations. 

 

Den

They are more the exception than the norm in the UK if you are compairing  those in their 20s to those in their 60s. Ok there are obviously a percentage of younger people in high paid jobs but certainly over here many individuals are still at home in their 20s as they can’t afford to purchase and certainly don’t have the level of disposable income many people of my age group have. Job wise many large organisations have cut back on the salaries, bonuses, and pensions for younger people next to those we have enjoyed, pensions in particular are have moved from final salary to career average for the younger generation which will see them retire with again less disposable income. House prices have rocketed way above inflation, so again if you can afford to own your own property monthly payments are way above anything we have had to pay over the decades, probably something like double in real terms. That’s had a knock on effect on renting which again are crazy in the bigger cities. My niece is 22 years old and as with many of her friends who work in the financial sector they don’t find it easy and still rely on mum and dad. Not many high paid lawyers in her circle .

Edited January 31, 2019 by yorky

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 hours ago, Denny01 said:

I am being realistic. They are not exceptions, they are the norm, not your ‘home with mom and dad’ model. They are outgrowing Carnival after their 2nd cruise just as we did.  Your idea of staying with the current customer base is dead end. Sticking with us Baby Boomers as the focus will end up losing business because there is only so many electric scooters these ships can handle!.....see, we can all make silly generalizations. 

 

Den

 

It may be the norm with your daughter and her colleagues.  I've never done a 14 night Canada / New England cruise on X, but I can't imagine that it swings younger. 

 

My antictdotle evidence from my nieces and nephews: 4 still have no intention of ever working, 9 waited till they were 26 (+/-) to get serious about holding down a job, and 2 were very motivated at 18. 

 

The truth is probably somewhere inbetween, with perhaps a wider fork in the road from previous generations.

[Xrayal]

33 minutes ago, yorky said:

They are more the exception than the norm in the UK if you are compairing  those in their 20s to those in their 60s. Ok there are obviously a percentage of younger people in high paid jobs but certainly over here many individuals are still at home in their 20s as they can’t afford to purchase and certainly don’t have the level of disposable income many people of my age group have.

 

Completely correct.  I am a 30 year old millennial and my partner is 35.  We both work full time and earn above not only the median salary for our ages but also nationally.  We consider ourselves to be in the extreme of our generation as we purchased our first house when I was 27 and first cruised when I was 26.  Our contemporaries buy houses after they're 30, having lived at home or renting rooms in house shares in their 20s.   If they go away they take cheap RyanAir flights to European destinations out of season, or do one big trip every few years.

 

We are lucky in that we have minimal student debt, thanks to benefits from our employers and only have a mortgage payment to meet each month.  If we had childcare costs or other major expenses we wouldn't be able to afford to cruise.   The majority of our contemporaries have children, massive student debt and are on temporary employment contracts.  If they own property are either paying to renovate it having bought it from the estate of an elderly person who has died or saving to move into a larger property to fit their needs.

 

When we choose our cruises we are still price concious, we want an included beverage package and a level of service which means we get a break from our jobs. We like Celebrity and Princess because of this, and especially Celebrity because of the range of speciality dining.  We book oceanview cabins and have one verandah sailing booked next year for our honeymoon.  We are aware of how lucky we are to earn what we do and how our lives facilitate our careers, yet even verandah pricing can be too much for us.  Edge pricing is way outside of our comfort zone, in addition to concerns we have regarding the facilities onboard.

 

For now we'll be sticking to the M and S class, booking at around £120/pppn and with an included beverage package.   We see no value in aqua, concierge or suite class and to avoid the MDR we instead spend on speciality dining.   On Princess we book the sanctuary too.  We do use celebrity excursions where it'd be difficult to do what we want to do in port and feel we also pay for a level of convenience (turn up and someone else does all the worrying).

 

We're excited for Virgin Voyages and always shop around between the lines when booking, meaning we're lead by itinerary, price, line and ship.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Xrayal

[tallnthensome]

8 hours ago, Denny01 said:

I am being realistic. They are not exceptions, they are the norm, not your ‘home with mom and dad’ model. They are outgrowing Carnival after their 2nd cruise just as we did.  Your idea of staying with the current customer base is dead end. Sticking with us Baby Boomers as the focus will end up losing business because there is only so many electric scooters these ships can handle!.....see, we can all make silly generalizations. 

 

Den

You have a right to your opinion as well do I. I'm not saying that Celebrity can't target Millenials. They surely can ...... I believe that targeting them with a simple week long cruise that costs $6K to $7K  isn't the best approach in my opinion. Like another poster talked about, that generation is poorer than the baby boomer generation. Just because your daughter is a lawyer makes it appear that you are convinced that the rest of the millennials are as well. Facts are facts, they are poorer and much more frugal with their money. I'll stand here and wait for those Edge reviews where there are reports of tons of 25-35 year old passengers and the majority aboard. I'll tell you that I'll be waiting a long time and so will Celebrity at those prices.  

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

You have a right to your opinion as well do I. I'm not saying that Celebrity can't target Millenials. They surely can ...... I believe that targeting them with a simple week long cruise that costs $6K to $7K  isn't the best approach in my opinion. Like another poster talked about, that generation is poorer than the baby boomer generation. Just because your daughter is a lawyer makes it appear that you are convinced that the rest of the millennials are as well. Facts are facts, they are poorer and much more frugal with their money. I'll stand here and wait for those Edge reviews where there are reports of tons of 25-35 year old passengers and the majority aboard. I'll tell you that I'll be waiting a long time and so will Celebrity at those prices.  

 

Has anyone been on MSC / NCL / CCL / RCCL recently, and heard any hype about Edge from millennials with a wondering eye?  Anyone crossing over to this forum, claiming if only for the price, they couldn't get their 25-35 year old selves onboard fast enough?  It is an interesting experiment, and hats off to X when prices come down, if they succeed.  I just don't see any evidence yet.

 

This criticism goes to Virgin Voyages too, it makes no sense to build a cruise ship for non-cruisers.  They already have those, they're called hotels, casinos, and Airbnbs.  If someone is not into the sea, foreign ports, exotic beaches, or a mobile resort, they're not going to be persuaded by fringy shows and gimmicky gadgets.  

 

It's like building a resort near Yellowstone, for those not into the outdoors or nature.  With 4 million Yellowstone visitors each year, imagine the potential marketing to everyone else!

 

 

[tallnthensome]

1 hour ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Has anyone been on MSC / NCL / CCL / RCCL recently, and heard any hype about Edge from millennials with a wondering eye?  Anyone crossing over to this forum, claiming if only for the price, they couldn't get their 25-35 year old selves onboard fast enough?  It is an interesting experiment, and hats off to X when prices come down, if they succeed.  I just don't see any evidence yet.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree. Outside of the Celebrity forums there is zero chatter about the Edge. However, there is plenty of buzz about the new MSC Seaside, which we have sailed, on all cruise forums and it's affordability.

Edited January 31, 2019 by tallnthensome

[cruisefam38]

1 hour ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

This criticism goes to Virgin Voyages too, it makes no sense to build a cruise ship for non-cruisers.  They already have those, they're called hotels, casinos, and Airbnbs.  If someone is not into the sea, foreign ports, exotic beaches, or a mobile resort, they're not going to be persuaded by fringy shows and gimmicky gadgets.  

 

This statement makes so much sense, to be patently obvious, a plethora of options seems to be the reality for the entertainment/travel industry .

One could go on to say these are incontrovertible facts.  Yet in it's vigorous drive to improve the bottom line, the cruise industry seems desperate to refute, or at least ignore, this reality. 

 

Maybe the cruise industry can expand the concept of mechanical mobile islands to the point that Disney World will be at sea (have folks seen the marketing photos of the the Carnival Mardi Gras?) and make even more money. 

That amusement park concept holds no attraction for some people, at any age.  Why not make that your business niche?   For the past thirty years, it was Celebrity's niche, and they thrived by serving that market segment. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by cruisefam38

[BPCW]

9 hours ago, RDC1 said:

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-average-millennial-income-4171296

 

A couple of highlights from the article millennials make 20% less than did boomers at the same age (adjusted).

More millennials are in poverty line then other generations.

plus high debt levels, low home ownership rates, etc.

 

Boomers and other generations also covered long periods, but one must start somewhere when slicing demographics.

 

They may make less but generally they have less expenses as they tend to wait longer to get married, to buy a house, and definitely to have kids.  So maybe they make less (adjusted for inflation) but they may have MORE disposable income.  

[BPCW]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

I totally agree. Outside of the Celebrity forums there is zero chatter about the Edge. However, there is plenty of buzz about the new MSC Seaside, which we have sailed, on all cruise forums and it's affordability.

 

There is a lot of chatter among my cruise friends/family group (about 15 people so very small sample size) about Edge.  Everyone wants to try it and was excited for it.  Not one person has seriously considered booking it because of the prices as most have the "I can go on 3 cruises for the price of one on Edge.  

[FM]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 9:28 AM, DaCruiseBug said:

 

Dining: We had the 6:00pm set dining but every night we dined at a different restaurant and showed up anytime between 6:00pm and 7:30pm and never had to wait. Checked in with the host and always got a table right away (usually by a window).

 

Feel free to ask any questions -

Good to hear … did you have a favorite?

[RDC1]

3 hours ago, BPCW said:

 

They may make less but generally they have less expenses as they tend to wait longer to get married, to buy a house, and definitely to have kids.  So maybe they make less (adjusted for inflation) but they may have MORE disposable income.  

Not really because they are also far more burdened with debt, primarily college loans then previous generations.

 

The other question is when one notes the 35k average income if they are going to pay higher rates when they cruise or select more lower price brands such as Royal or NCL.

[villauk]

7 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Has anyone been on MSC / NCL / CCL / RCCL recently, and heard any hype about Edge from millennials with a wondering eye?  Anyone crossing over to this forum, claiming if only for the price, they couldn't get their 25-35 year old selves onboard fast enough?  It is an interesting experiment, and hats off to X when prices come down, if they succeed.  I just don't see any evidence yet.

 

 

 

 

 

From viewing the phots of current Edge reviews here on CC, I can’t say I’ve seen many millennials in the photographs. 

 

But another issue that keeps crossing my mind is regarding the IVs. Now we all know that they appear very similar to the traditional river cruise cabins. With that in mind, and thinking of how Viking have gone into the ocean line market in recent years, then wouldn’t you have thought that they would have considered implementing that same idea i.e. using the IV layout with the drop-down window like on their other river ships?  If so, and them being ‘experts’ in that field (many river vessels in their fleet), one would obviously presume that they had discarded the IV option (or whatever you wish to call it) from the planning stage of their new ocean liners - perhaps for those very same reasons/issues that they are now experiencing with Edge? Just a thought 🤔.

[Pennstateman]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:14 PM, tallnthensome said:

I'm not sure why Celebrity wants to target Millenials with an overly expensive cruise ..... They are not known to be a wealthy generation. They are generally lazy, broke, make low wages, and live with mom and dad. They'd be better off on the MSC Seaside, which we loved btw. The millennial cruiser could do three week long cruises on the Seaside compared to one week on the Edge and have just as much fun. In all reality Celebrity should have went the other way with more affordable cruises, not more expensive. I doubt any of the sailings are full of young, skinny, beautiful millennials as seen in their promo videos.  

Aren’t free cruises part of the proposals I just heard about that go with free health care, free college, free student debt forgiveness?

[BeeMinor]

38 minutes ago, RDC1 said:

Not really because they are also far more burdened with debt, primarily college loans then previous generations.

 

The other question is when one notes the 35k average income if they are going to pay higher rates when they cruise or select more lower price brands such as Royal or NCL.

 

Digging in a little bit that average income is calculated for 16-34-year-olds. I would expect the incomes of high school and college students to make it artificially low. And it's not like X has to appeal to the average person in their 20s or 30s. They need to appeal to the relatively high-earning person who takes a vacation once or twice a year. As a 38-year-old I'm technically months too old to be a millennial, but I know plenty of people my age and in their earlier 30s who could afford to sail the Edge at current prices. Whether they would want to sail the Edge at current prices is a completely different question. If X is trying to draw in non-cruisers in their 30s for a Caribbean cruise, they're competing with getting an AirBnb in St. Lucia or booking at a beach resort in Tulum, and even factoring in food, drinks, etc.--that's less than the Edge. People I know in their 30s who do cruise do so because it's fun and it's easy and it offers value, but I'm not sure that the value proposition is there on the Edge.

[DaCruiseBug]

5 hours ago, FM said:

Good to hear … did you have a favorite?

 

The food was great in all of them but I enjoyed the menus a bit more in Tuscan and Cyprus but...

[UnorigionalName]

9 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Has anyone been on MSC / NCL / CCL / RCCL recently, and heard any hype about Edge from millennials with a wondering eye?  Anyone crossing over to this forum, claiming if only for the price, they couldn't get their 25-35 year old selves onboard fast enough?  It is an interesting experiment, and hats off to X when prices come down, if they succeed.  I just don't see any evidence yet.

 

This criticism goes to Virgin Voyages too, it makes no sense to build a cruise ship for non-cruisers.  They already have those, they're called hotels, casinos, and Airbnbs.  If someone is not into the sea, foreign ports, exotic beaches, or a mobile resort, they're not going to be persuaded by fringy shows and gimmicky gadgets.  

 

It's like building a resort near Yellowstone, for those not into the outdoors or nature.  With 4 million Yellowstone visitors each year, imagine the potential marketing to everyone else!

 

 

 

On 1/30/2019 at 12:22 PM, tallnthensome said:

Of course there are exceptions to anything but let's be realistic here ...... New or even experienced cruising millennials in general don't go to Celebrity for their cruises. They go to Carnival, Royal, and NCL. Celebrity,  HAL, and Princess still have and will have an older demographic for some time.  For those millenials that do, it's a great experience for sure and kudos to them. 

 

Why does everyone think all millenials are the same?  That all however million are the median millenial?  The Edge is targeting a select class of higher income millenials.  Yes, they exist too.  I think it's brilliant.  You don't need to have tons of rich millenials.  There is only one Edge (then Apex) compared to like a billion other ships for everyone else.

 

Think of it from the other way.  There are millenials with high disposable income.  Some of them are interested in cruising.  Which ship caters to them?  Celebrity identified a niche that wasn't being served.  What's the big deal if it's not to your taste? then don't go on it.  Vote with your pocket book.  We will see in a few years after the hype dies down if it was a good move or not.

 

I suspect that the first few cruises had a lot of people who are not the target demographic.  Why I think a lot of the initial comments on this forum are negative.  They are from people who generally like the current cruise offerings.

 

I personally am pretty excited about the ship and am waiting for the new ship premium to come down, or more likely wait for the Apex.