Recent Liberty WJ ?

[39august]

When we were on board Liberty in early May, the flatware in WJ was not wrapped in napkins as is usual. Is this still the case or are they back to the customary napkin-wrapped bundles?

[ScubaCruiser54]

I am curious if RCI has ceased the practice of leaving the utensils unwrapped in the Windjammer on the Liberty of the Seas?  We were on the ship May 5, 2019 and the utensils were left unwrapped for everyone to handle, sneeze or cough on, or pick them up and then stick them back into the holding racks.  

We saw numerous people cough or sneeze into their hand and then rifle through the utensils before finally picking one out.  This practice left the utensils contaminated.  When we complained to the officers in the Windjammer, we were told that the Captain said using the hand cleaner was sufficient.   I guess that might be true, but doubt it, if the cruise passengers would not soil their hands before they picked through numerous knives, forks or spoons to find the perfect one.  We advised the staff of our concerns and they told us that it was an experiment that RCI was running.  I prefer not to be a guinea pig for biological sanitary practice testing on my vacations.

 

When we wrote to RCI, they told us that it was under investigation.  Not an appropriate answer.  I am wondering if the practice continues or has it been terminated?

 

Diamond Plus C&A member.

[PigsCanFly]

When we were on the LotS b2b in early April, the silverware in the WJ was hit or miss re: wrapped vs unwrapped.  Never sure from day 2 day what we would find.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

I am curious if RCI has ceased the practice of leaving the utensils unwrapped in the Windjammer on the Liberty of the Seas?  We were on the ship May 5, 2019 and the utensils were left unwrapped for everyone to handle, sneeze or cough on, or pick them up and then stick them back into the holding racks.  

We saw numerous people cough or sneeze into their hand and then rifle through the utensils before finally picking one out.  This practice left the utensils contaminated.  When we complained to the officers in the Windjammer, we were told that the Captain said using the hand cleaner was sufficient.   I guess that might be true, but doubt it, if the cruise passengers would not soil their hands before they picked through numerous knives, forks or spoons to find the perfect one.  We advised the staff of our concerns and they told us that it was an experiment that RCI was running.  I prefer not to be a guinea pig for biological sanitary practice testing on my vacations.

 

When we wrote to RCI, they told us that it was under investigation.  Not an appropriate answer.  I am wondering if the practice continues or has it been terminated?

 

Diamond Plus C&A member.

This is a major non issue. There is unwrapped flatware in venues all the ship.

[PhoenixCruiser]

This again?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[ScubaCruiser54]

This is not a NON issue.  How many people have been sickened by various gastro intestinal illnesses and then quarantined in their rooms or had their vacations screwed up.  I have been sailing since 1982 and this was the FIRST time that utensils in the WINDJAMMER were not wrapped.  

 

THERE were two health care professionals in our party and both of them were appalled by the lack of sanitary conditions around the "silverware" in the windjammer.  Maybe you like people coughing and sneezing on your utensils, we do not.

 

[not-enough-cruising]

21 minutes ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

This is not a NON issue.  How many people have been sickened by various gastro intestinal illnesses and then quarantined in their rooms or had their vacations screwed up.  I have been sailing since 1982 and this was the FIRST time that utensils in the WINDJAMMER were not wrapped.  

 

THERE were two health care professionals in our party and both of them were appalled by the lack of sanitary conditions around the "silverware" in the windjammer.  Maybe you like people coughing and sneezing on your utensils, we do not.

 

Your opinion, however there is no denying that there has been unwrapped flatware in the Windjammer every time I have cruised (cruising since 1994 so not as long as you). See the soup stations, see the breakfast cereal stations, see the desert stations. See Sorento’s and Cafe Promenade. See the tables in MDR with hundreds of people walking by and breathing. 

 

This really is a non issue. 

[ScubaCruiser54]

You have no real concept of hygiene, sanitary conditions, or the transmission of viruses and communicable diseases... do you?   Have you ever had norovirus?  hepatitis A, or any other food borne or unsanitary cleaning practices illness?   Again, I am not a guinea pig for RCI to experiment on what is good and what is bad when it comes to health issues.

And from the responses I got from RCI, they are not concerned.  Are you relate to or employed by RCI or one of its sales groups?

 

[not-enough-cruising]

45 minutes ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

Are you relate to or employed by RCI or one of its sales groups?

 

No, but I have been employed as an epidemiologist for 31 years at one of the largest medical teaching facilities in the Southwest United States. 

 

My understanding of the the concepts of transmittable diseases and hygiene, as well as bacteriology and the viral process are quite up to date; thank you. 

 

This is a non issue. 

 

Furthermore, the FAR greater concern in the windjammer (and any buffet setting for that matter) is the policy of allowing clientele to serve themselves. If you are going to worry about contracting something at the buffet, then this should be the windmill you are tilting at. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by not-enough-cruising

[ONECRUISER]

3 hours ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

This is not a NON issue.  How many people have been sickened by various gastro intestinal illnesses and then quarantined in their rooms or had their vacations screwed up.  I have been sailing since 1982 and this was the FIRST time that utensils in the WINDJAMMER were not wrapped.  

 

THERE were two health care professionals in our party and both of them were appalled by the lack of sanitary conditions around the "silverware" in the windjammer.  Maybe you like people coughing and sneezing on your utensils, we do not.

 

Actually WJ 1988-2001 they were not wrapped during daytime on my Royal Cruises. They used Paper Napkins when I started Cruising. Now dinner was more Formal in WJ, with table clothes and such. Not sure when they started wrapping them all time. But can remember in 2001 right before 9/11 was traveling alone with my kids on Enchantment. My 7yr old Son dropped his Breakfast Tray(they use to have) and his loose silverware and Plates went sliding. Done 4-6 Cruises a yr since 2012 and there is few meals every Cruise not Wrapped when they are in bins like they are at always at Dessert counter. Think they just get behind few times during Cruise, have even watch workers sitting there wrapping them after WJ just opened... Just my Experience, as with everything can vary on Royal

Edited June 9, 2019 by ONECRUISER

[ScubaCruiser54]

Not enough cruising...

 

If your background is accurate, then you should know better.  You just might need a refresher course or two before you start claiming that unsanitary practices on a cruise ship are NON ISSUES.   Why do you think the crew told us that it was a health experiment by RCI if it is a NON ISSUE...  Maybe you missed out on the CDC's input...

 

Norovirus is hard to kill and stays on food, kitchen surfaces, and utensils. It can

• Remain infectious on foods even at freezing temperatures and until heated above 140°F.
• Stay on countertops and serving utensils for up to 2 weeks.
• Resist many common disinfectants and hand sanitizers.

 

Science Direct indicated that:

 

"Today's cruise ships serve as a gathering place for people in every age group from different countries and cultures. The closed environment aboard cruise ships, close contact among passengers and crew, and common sources of food and water provide ample opportunity for exposure to and transmission of infectious diseases. Of these, gastrointestinal and respiratory infections pose the greatest risk of outbreaks. Outbreaks on cruise ships present a public health concern, since infection is often easily spread, is difficult to control, and has the potential to disseminate pathogens."   
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0196439909000476

 

But then I guess I should just be a sheeple and not worry about any practice that can cause illness on a cruise ship....   Especially if it is easily remedied by wrapping the silverware [aka utensils] and keeping others paws and germs off of them...

 

 

 

 

[Thorben-Hendrik]

17 hours ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

We advised the staff of our concerns and they told us that it was an experiment that RCI was running.  I prefer not to be a guinea pig for biological sanitary practice testing on my vacations.

RCI ran out of guinea pigs -> so now they use paying customers!🙄😱👎🤮

[reallyitsmema]

Why is it that people are only coughing and sneezing at the unwrapped utensils and not the wrapped utensils? 

 

The napkin that the utensils are wrapped in is then used to wipe faces and hands, how is this not transferring germs just like an unwrapped utensil would?  How have you never seen someone pick up a wrapped bundle of utensils and then put it back?  What about the tables and chairs you eat at?  They have germs too.  We could then talk about the hygiene of some of the cooks and servers, but that is a whole other petri dish.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

Not enough cruising...

 

If your background is accurate, then you should know better.  You just might need a refresher course or two before you start claiming that unsanitary practices on a cruise ship are NON ISSUES.   Why do you think the crew told us that it was a health experiment by RCI if it is a NON ISSUE...  Maybe you missed out on the CDC's input...

 

Norovirus is hard to kill and stays on food, kitchen surfaces, and utensils. It can

• Remain infectious on foods even at freezing temperatures and until heated above 140°F.
• Stay on countertops and serving utensils for up to 2 weeks.
• Resist many common disinfectants and hand sanitizers.

 

Science Direct indicated that:

 

"Today's cruise ships serve as a gathering place for people in every age group from different countries and cultures. The closed environment aboard cruise ships, close contact among passengers and crew, and common sources of food and water provide ample opportunity for exposure to and transmission of infectious diseases. Of these, gastrointestinal and respiratory infections pose the greatest risk of outbreaks. Outbreaks on cruise ships present a public health concern, since infection is often easily spread, is difficult to control, and has the potential to disseminate pathogens."   
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0196439909000476

 

But then I guess I should just be a sheeple and not worry about any practice that can cause illness on a cruise ship....   Especially if it is easily remedied by wrapping the silverware [aka utensils] and keeping others paws and germs off of them...

 

 

 

 

It’s easy to cut and paste. Anyone can find information on line, but interpretation and understanding isn’t as easy to acquire. 

 

Unwrapped utensils are NOT classified as an unsanitary practice. The CDC vessel sanitation program cited in the article you posted makes no mention to recommendation of “wrapped” utensils; if it did ALL cutlery on the ship would be wrapped. It does however discuss common or shared food and water sources (ie the tongs and serving spoons at the buffet and nozzles of drink dispensers) as I intimated in my earlier post. 

 

Pathogens can survive just as easily on the polyester napkin (or even easier depending on porosity of the material), however we all know the napkin is not very porous due to the fact that it has almost no ability to absorb a fluid spill. 

 

Enjoy your cruising. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by not-enough-cruising

[ScubaCruiser54]

Not enough cruising.... I guess I am not the only one who is concerned...

Buffet serving utensils

Those overflowing food trays aren't the only thing you need to worry about at the buffet. Although staff thoroughly cleans serving utensils before putting them out, consider how many people touch those same utensils as they help themselves to a meal. And the utensils usually sit out through the entire meal service. Conde Nast Traveler recommends avoiding common serving utensils all together if possible.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tips/10-things-cruise-ships-arent-cleaning-as-they-should/ss-AACri5Z?ocid=spartanntp#image=8

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

Not enough cruising.... I guess I am not the only one who is concerned...

Buffet serving utensils

Those overflowing food trays aren't the only thing you need to worry about at the buffet. Although staff thoroughly cleans serving utensils before putting them out, consider how many people touch those same utensils as they help themselves to a meal. And the utensils usually sit out through the entire meal service. Conde Nast Traveler recommends avoiding common serving utensils all together if possible.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tips/10-things-cruise-ships-arent-cleaning-as-they-should/ss-AACri5Z?ocid=spartanntp#image=8

Yes, I covered this topic 2 weeks ago, post #9

[ScubaCruiser54]

I guess the Novel Coronavirus -19 makes me look like an expert...  Boy, I guess there will be a lot of changes now.

[Spurschick]

1 hour ago, ScubaCruiser54 said:

I guess the Novel Coronavirus -19 makes me look like an expert...  Boy, I guess there will be a lot of changes now.

At least RC made people use hand sanitizer going into WJ!

 

Unwrapped utensils was a norm in buffets and quick service restaurants in lots of land based restaurants too. They didn’t make people use hand sanitizer entering so just imagine the germs there.

 

Yes it is a change that I see happening but not just on cruise ships.

[ScubaCruiser54]

You don't change from a practice that changed from basic sanitary conditions to one that allowed poor sanitary practices.  

I have not been to a buffet in years and years that did not have the utensils prewrapped.   And in high end restaurants .... the utensils are laid out on napkins after having been set out by staff... who, you would hope, had washed their hands thoroughly and examined the utensils for poor cleaning from the scullery.   And yes, I have rejected many utensils from wrapped sets that were dirty, had food stuck on them, and were not clean.  

I have had land based restaurant managers try to tell me that food that was stuck to supposedly cleaned utensils were "sanitized" by hot water in the autoclaves they washed them in...   NOT!

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by ScubaCruiser54

[Ashland]

I don't care what some of you say....I prefer that they wrap the utensils...RCI has cut enough corners over the years....this shouldn't be one of them.