Warning - Duty Free is not so Duty Free

[hrhdhd]

We got off Equinox this morning. Spent slightly over our limit (2 people, $1600).

 

We went to the "Items to Declare" line, I confessed our sins, the agent thanked me for my honesty, and he welcomed us home and waved us through.

 

Honesty is the best policy. 😇

 

 

[Charles4515]

On 12/19/2019 at 4:15 PM, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

The first post is making even more assumptions about how and why the OP was flagged, and what actual machinations behind the scenes led to it.

 

We really have no clear information here.  All we KNOW is the OP was stopped by customs (which is a possibility for everyone every time they enter the US), and evidently had to pay the duty or tax for which they had a legal obligation.  EVERYTHING else is simply one person's assumption of how and why things happened.

 

The cruise line reports all purchases to customs. That is why people get flagged and customs knows the amount. That is not an assumption.

 

What is really dispicable is that the shop sales staff knows this but when they make the sale they obfuscate what duty free means in order to make the sale and get their commission, they imply that there are no taxes to be paid. Passengers are mislead. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Charles4515

[Life Buoy]

3 hours ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Not all of them ask.  I think it's usually just the "recommended" (by the ship) shops who ask, probably because they get a kickback from the ship for sending you to that shop.

 

 

Same; when we have purchased items from a non-ship recommended store, there is no asking us what ship we're on.

My Princess cruise stopped in St Maarten and I went to a jeweler friend. He told me that as a participant in the shopping program he was required to report and give a percentage to the ship. 

[Luvcrusn]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

The cruise line reports all purchases to customs. That is why people get flagged and customs knows the amount. That is not an assumption.

 

What is really dispicable is that the shop sales staff knows this but when they make the sale they obfuscate what duty free means in order to make the sale and get their commission, they imply that there are no taxes to be paid. Passengers are mislead. 

If the passenger is aware of the laws and planning to observe them, all of this is moot. If the passenger  isn't aware, that is on them. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The shop employees on the ship are doing their job. The ship is complying with CBP requirements. If a passenger is trying to cheat "the system" and gets caught and is delayed, charged duty and/or fined because they didn't declare items that were over their exemption it's ridiculous to point fingers at the ship shop salespeople as the cause of the problems. The passenger in question need only look in the mirror to see the person responsible for their problems.

[Lisah101]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

The cruise line reports all purchases to customs. That is why people get flagged and customs knows the amount. That is not an assumption.

 

What is really dispicable is that the shop sales staff knows this but when they make the sale they obfuscate what duty free means in order to make the sale and get their commission, they imply that there are no taxes to be paid. Passengers are mislead. 

You are confusing sales tax with Duty tax, they are two separate items. It's always up to the individual  to know the laws and customs.  Ignorance of the law has never been defensible. 

 

[Fouremco]

35 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

If the passenger is aware of the laws and planning to observe them, all of this is moot.

I couldn't agree more. If you are going to travel internationally, you really do need to become aware of a fairly wide range of domestic and foreign regulations and requirements and their potential impact on you as a traveller. In the age of the Internet, there's really no excuse for not understanding what terms like "duty-free" and "personal exemption" mean in relation to customs regulations and their application. 

 

[Charles4515]

6 minutes ago, Lisah101 said:

You are confusing sales tax with Duty tax, they are two separate items. It's always up to the individual  to know the laws and customs.  Ignorance of the law has never been defensible. 

 

I am not confusing anything. The cruise shops personal confuse their customers about the taxes on purpose to make a sale. 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

I guess I am the only one who didn’t realize the ship shops were “duty free” other than maybe liquor and perfume. Granted, I’m not buying jewelry or fancy handbags or anything like that - have never come close to my limit - so that may be why.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Luvcrusn said:

If the passenger is aware of the laws and planning to observe them, all of this is moot. If the passenger  isn't aware, that is on them. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The shop employees on the ship are doing their job. The ship is complying with CBP requirements. If a passenger is trying to cheat "the system" and gets caught and is delayed, charged duty and/or fined because they didn't declare items that were over their exemption it's ridiculous to point fingers at the ship shop salespeople as the cause of the problems. The passenger in question need only look in the mirror to see the person responsible for their problems.

Scamming passengers by misleading them about the customs duties and taxes is doing a job on the passengers. If that’s their job then they are miserable human beings. Taking advantage of passengers who don’t know the laws and blaming them for not knowing is typical elitist thinking. 

[Lisah101]

Just now, Charles4515 said:

Scamming passengers by misleading them about the customs duties and taxes is doing a job on the passengers. If that’s their job then they are miserable human beings. Taking advantage of passengers who don’t know the laws and blaming them for not knowing is typical elitist thinking. 

We must be on different cruises. I've NEVER had a hard sale on any cruise line outside of the art auctions.  They've always been very gracious and supportive and we spoke about the details of the watch or whatever we were purchasing.  I've never had a sales person mention the sales tax benefit in the shops including the times I made purchases at the Apple store.  Not saying a sales rep doesn't say it from time to time, I do not think it's an organized effort or one I've ever encountered. But then, I make sure I know the laws and customs rules when traveling so I can make educated decisions.

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, Lisah101 said:

But then, I make sure I know the laws and customs rules when traveling so I can make educated decisions.

If only everyone would do this, then threads of this nature would cease to exist.

[Charles4515]

46 minutes ago, Lisah101 said:

We must be on different cruises. I've NEVER had a hard sale on any cruise line outside of the art auctions.  They've always been very gracious and supportive and we spoke about the details of the watch or whatever we were purchasing.  I've never had a sales person mention the sales tax benefit in the shops including the times I made purchases at the Apple store.  Not saying a sales rep doesn't say it from time to time, I do not think it's an organized effort or one I've ever encountered. But then, I make sure I know the laws and customs rules when traveling so I can make educated decisions.

The iLounge is an Apple reseller not an Apple store but last week on Reflection while I was in the iLounge I overheard them mention that no sales tax was collected to someone trying to decide on a purchase. That was not a hard sale though, simply a fact. The sales person there was not trying hard. I think most iLounge purchases the passenger already has made up their mind. I have heard hard sales in the jewelry and watch shops.  Many people on cruises don’t travel often and lack knowledge of customs rules. On my recent cruises they have stopped using the customs forms so you don’t sign a form or write down your purchases.  

Edited December 21, 2019 by Charles4515

[Arzeena]

On 12/18/2019 at 4:02 PM, alishac said:

We just disembarked the Edge on Sunday out of Ft. Lauderdale and had an amazing cruise. When my husband scanned his card to exit the ship, an alert pinged in the system and the staff person said that he had been selected for a "random" customs check. There was a customs official waiting right at the podium where we checked out, and led us through the terminal to the baggage area and dropped us off with another customs official who had us fill out the old customs form that you used to complete on the ship before leaving. When we were done, we were led to the customs office where several other passengers were also waiting. Someone there took our customs form and went to the back room for about ten minutes, and then came out and asked if we had made any purchases onboard (even though my husband had clearly listed the items we'd purchased on the form). We told him that we had purchased a bracelet, and he asked to see our receipt so he could see if it had been stamped by the ship that it was made in the US. 1. Our receipts were packed away, and 2. the bracelet was Bulgari and clearly was not made in the US. The customs official then pulled out a paper with a list of passengers and the purchases they'd made onboard, and said that it was likely the item, which he knew was jewelry, was not made in America (which we already knew). He then said that because of this we would have to pay duty.

 

As we were waiting to pay this duty that had to be calculated in the back room, we realize that everyone else in the room that was waiting had also made purchases onboard and were being checked against this list that customs had of our purchases. This check was clearly not random - customs had pulled the list ahead of time and had made sure that the passengers were marked with an alert when they were disembarking. They were then requiring everyone who had made an onboard "duty-free" purchase to pay duty. Some of the officials were nicer than others--some were outright harassing passengers who didn't have their receipts with them, even though customs already had a list of what everyone had purchased. We waited 30-45 minutes to go through this process, as they would go in the back room for long spans of time doing I don't know what. One couple had to wait so long that they missed their flight. One elderly woman in a wheelchair on a group tour was left by her group of 40 because they could not wait for her.

 

Now we have made onboard purchases in the past, and have never had this happen, even in the days when you had to fill out the customs form and we would always list our purchases. So be warned - if you make a large purchase on the ship thinking you will avoid paying duty, this is not the case (at least not in Ft. Lauderdale). What made this very frustrating was that there was no way that Celebrity was not aware that this was going to happen - the alerts were placed on our cards and there were customs officials on the ship waiting at the podiums as people disembarked. Also, when the onboard shops manager was called down to clarify a purchase and a guest complained to him, he said that it was the guest's responsibility to keep their receipts and know the requirements.

 

I am not saying that if a duty was owed we should not have had to pay it, but Celebrity should notify guests of this when they make these purchases instead of blatantly lying to them and saying they are duty and tax free. It felt like a scam, and left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

SO be warned before making a duty-free purchase onboard.

The CBP did nothing wrong. The long times they take to go in the back room is to calculate how much you over spent on your duty free allowance, how much is duty exempt and how much duty you owe on the overs. Doing that for several passengers is quite time consuming.

Receipts must never be packed away. It is a foolish move. Always keep them with you in case of random customs checks. Receipts are proof of purchases declared on the form and your backup for what was within allowance limits and what was not.

I too believe you must have gone way over your customs allowance limit, hence the duties were assessed for that portion.

If you totally believe what the sales people tell you, you will be sold many bridges in Brooklyn.
The shops on board do not belong to the cruise lines...they are a different company (I think LVMH, Dufree and so on) so Celebrity is not responsible to tell you anything about duty...but in fact they DO TELL YOU....on the departure sheet that comes to your cabin, the tax and duty free allowance limits are very clearly mentioned and it is YOUR responsibility to read that thoroughly.

If you say you have cruised before, you should be well aware of that and perhaps also of the customs form they used to put with your departure info and tags.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Arzeena

[hcat]

2 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

I guess I am the only one who didn’t realize the ship shops were “duty free” other than maybe liquor and perfume. Granted, I’m not buying jewelry or fancy handbags or anything like that - have never come close to my limit - so that may be why.

Me too but seems  anyone could make a mistake if they slip over the limit.  I  like the old system where everyone was asked  to write it all down on the declaration form. Bet fewer folks would be snagged!

.

So it seems the words duty free do not mean  what many of us thought they did.

Other than duty free zones for commercial importing,  what is the really big deal when stores advertise they are duty free, other than liquor and cigs?

 

Glad OP posted and grateful for all the info imparted by others,,

 

[Luvcrusn]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 Many people on cruises don’t travel often and lack knowledge of customs rules. On my recent cruises they have stopped using the customs forms so you don’t sign a form or write down your purchases.  

The X Today tells you on the last night of the cruise that you don't need the form UNLESS you have exceeded your $800 duty free exemption and mentions the 31 day limit as well as spell out the other rules. All you have to do is read. If the passenger doesn't read the info provided or inform themselves beforehand of the laws, the responsibility lies squarely on their shoulders. Travelers who put their faith in shop keepers of different nationalities in different countries or ships or airports are expecting that person, who may have absolutely no knowledge of US customs rules to educate them accurately. That person may even mean well, but simply be misinformed. That is foolhardy. I think a bit of personal responsibility and accountability would go a long way here. That's like saying "that person over there told me I could do it"!

 

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Scamming passengers by misleading them about the customs duties and taxes is doing a job on the passengers. If that’s their job then they are miserable human beings. Taking advantage of passengers who don’t know the laws and blaming them for not knowing is typical elitist thinking. 

I have been sailing for many years and travelling for even more. I take personal responsibility for knowing what I can and cannot take back to the US and how often. Since the dawn of the internet, it's even easier than ever to take a few minutes before (or even during) a trip to brush up on recent changes. Even if you've not done that, X publishes the rules pretty clearly in the Celebrity Today paper that is distributed to everyone on board. All a traveler needs to do is take a couple of minutes to be prepared and READ! I have never once been scammed  or mislead by someone on board a ship about those things (no one has even tried). I am certainly not "elitist" in my thinking, I just know the rules and am prudently prepared and take responsibility for my actions rather than blame someone else. I don't expect ship shop employees, many from countries other than the US to be better informed about US rules than I. If anyone believes that the shop employees on X ships are deliberately trying to "scam" them about anything, I'd recommend not buying anything on board and not sailing with the cruise line. However I absolutely believe that is NOT the case. The laws apply to all travelers entering the US, they aren't imposed by the cruise line, but by the government. I think it is just easier for some travelers who want to beat the system to blame everyone but themselves when caught. I guess it's just easier to point a finger in another direction rather that bend one's wrist and point it at oneself.

[hcat]

Not everyone is trying to beat the system! Just like the lady I saw abruptly pulled off the line while eating an apple!  She was clueless but  did not get a pass!

 

Guess the divergence of  views will remain,  but I am better educated.

There's much better shopping with warranties stateside anyhow..other than the 2 btls of alcohol.

 

[Charles4515]

10 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

The X Today tells you on the last night of the cruise that you don't need the form UNLESS you have exceeded your $800 duty free exemption and 

 

What I received a couple of days ago from X says customs forms no longer required. Period . It does not say Unless  you have exceeded your $800 duty free exemption. It does list the exemptions but does not tell US  passengers what to do if they exceeded their exemptions. 

 

The shop employees are contracted out but that does not absolve Celebrity of responsibility for their actions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luvcrusn]

15 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

What I received a couple of days ago from X says customs forms no longer required. Period . It does not say Unless  you have exceeded your $800 duty free exemption. It does list the exemptions but does not tell US  passengers what to do if they exceeded their exemptions. 

 

The shop employees are contracted out but that does not absolve Celebrity of responsibility for their actions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The notice in the X Today says " A returning resident is eligible for the $800 duty-free personal exemption every 31 days.You do not need to fill out a customs decleration (sic) form if you have not exceeded this limit."  Ergo, if you have exceeded the limit, you need to fill out a customs declaration! 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Luvcrusn

[Charles4515]

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

Not everyone is trying to beat the system! Just like the lady I saw abruptly pulled off the line while eating an apple!  She was clueless but  did not get a pass!

 

Guess the divergence of  views will remain,  but I am better educated.

There's much better shopping with warranties stateside anyhow..other than the 2 btls of alcohol.

 

 

Exactly. A lot of US citizens don't travel internationally enough to have the rules down pat. But if they have made a mistake or misunderstood about allowances, when customs asks a question about their purchases the key is not to lie. 

 

 

 

 

[Luvcrusn]

9 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Exactly. A lot of US citizens don't travel internationally enough to have the rules down pat. But if they have made a mistake or misunderstood about allowances, when customs asks a question about their purchases the key is not to lie. 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree.

[Charles4515]

5 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

The notice in the X Today says " A returning resident is eligible for the $800 duty-free personal exemption every 31 days.You do not need to fill out a customs decleration (sic) form if you have not exceeded this limit."  Ergo, if you have exceeded the limit, you need to fill out a customs declaration! 

This is what I got. 


 

[Luvcrusn]

2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

This is what I got. 


 

It does say that purchases of $800 can be taken back duty free. I think if I purchase over that it would be common sense to need to declare that, document with receipts, (I suggest this even if you're under in case you need to prove what you spent) and expect to have to pay on anything above the exemption. I make use of the Mobile Passport app to keep a record of my purchases and receipts as I go as well as keep all of that together with our travel documents when re-entering the country. Things go smoothly when you are prepared.

[SoFla_KJ]

Duty-free stores are marketed to tourists, whether they are on a cruise ship, at an airport, or in a foreign country in a tourist area. The seller does not need to charge sales or VAT taxes as long as the goods are sold for export only and the seller is able to verify that the purchaser will export the good (international airline ticket and passport, cruise ticket, etc.). Alternatively, you can purchase goods in a foreign country and pay the sales/VAT taxes and claim a refund on the taxes when you leave the country with the goods. If you purchased the goods while you were outside of the United States and re-enter through customs, you will need to declare any purchases that exceed the exemptions whether you paid taxes. 

 

When goods are sold for export only, the sellers can sell them at reduced rates since they do not pay the excise taxes that are normally increase the cost on wholesale imported goods. That's why you will find "duty-free" stores selling at a discount. The buyer is responsible for import duties, if any. The problem with exceeding the exclusion limits is that items have drastically different import tariffs depending on, where you traveled to, the product's country of origin, and the type of product. The stores on the ship, at the port, and at the airport, report the purchases to CBP so they aren't liable for the import taxes.

Edited December 22, 2019 by SoFla_KJ