Will Florida cruises start back up in August?

[zekekelso]

The clear facts in Florida are

- Too many people are getting sick

- Too many people are dying 

- The strain on hospitals and providers is too great

 

Now you can arg about exactly how high and who’s to blame (but maybe somewhere else please) but until that changes, we can even begin to think about opening up cruises out of Florida. And even under the fastest possible way of getting the numbers down, extreme lockdown, it would take months to get to the point where we can begin the conversation. 
 

in the meantime, the cruise lines haven’t been able to address the biggest issue that will keep ship from sailing: What happens when people get sick. And as we can clearly see from the NBA, there’s no such thing as a bubble. Make no mistake, people will get sick in board. 

[zekekelso]

24 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Well if it's available it shouldn't be occupied should it?  Or am I missing something? 

I believe the distinction is a bed that is occupied, but you could kick the person out if someone who needs it worse comes along. 

[meadowlander]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Here is another interesting article just now released regarding the high positive numbers in Florida. Please read. Investigation by the media on positive numbers. It will be interesting if true. 
 

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-hospitals-confirm-mistakes-in-floridas-covid-19-report

You believe anything from this "news" organization? Have you seen their outrageously false poll numbers. Don't believe everything you read.

[Milwaukee Eight]

46 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Even at 90,000 to 100,000 tests per day, it is not enough. Some indications are that testing capacity is maxed out. We do not know the error rate but certainly it is not zero.

The info we get living here, testing is available just about every day. Typically our County has 2 or 3 testing locations. Those that want testing seem to be getting it. My 86 yo Mom (will be saying 87 next month) has now been tested 4 times. At least she is helping the negative rate. Lol 

 

M8

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, meadowlander said:

You believe anything from this "news" organization? Have you seen their outrageously false poll numbers. Don't believe everything you read.

I think people these days believe what they want to believe. People said we would by cruising in May. 
 

M8

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, zekekelso said:

I believe the distinction is a bed that is occupied, but you could kick the person out if someone who needs it worse comes along. 

 

So that would mean that either there are more available beds if the tally doesn't include those that are occupied but could be made available or conversely less truly available if the tally includes the occupied which could be made available.  Either way, it is splitting hairs.  If you take the total number of beds and subtract the beds that are available (booting people that don't need them) that will give you the number of truly occupied.  I am more concerned with the availability of beds -- that is what truly matters to me and that is what the Florida Department of Health is reporting.  

[livingonthebeach]

15 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

...Now you can arg about exactly how high and who’s to blame (but maybe somewhere else please)....

 

I agree the numbers are way too high but in order to bring them down, we have to get to the source of the problem.  It's not a blame game but rather an essential quest to know the specifics of what is causing the spike in order to mitigate it.  It looks like this virus is going to be with us for a while and we need to learn to live with it while not catching it until a vaccine, herd immunity or effective treatment is achieved.  In order for that to happen, we all have to do our part to social distance, wear masks in public and practice hygiene -- that's all we can do for now unfortunately. 

 

While the older population for the most part adheres to the rules, the younger generation does not -- that is just fact.  Until Florida (especially South Florida) gets better at controlling its Millennial population (Gen Yers and Gen Zers) and Gen Xers, cruising out of MIA (PortMiami) is just not going to happen, period.

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

While the older population for the most part adheres to the rules, the younger generation does not -- that is just fact.  Until Florida (especially South Florida) gets better at controlling its Millennial population (Gen Yers and Gen Zers) and Gen Xers, cruising out of MIA (PortMiami) is just not going to happen, period.

And the reason it’s prudent on us, the older generation, to avoid places and people who may be positive. 

[meadowlander]

43 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think people these days believe what they want to believe. People said we would by cruising in May. 
 

M8

As they should, just believe the truth not those with an agenda.  Just bought air tickets, cheap, for November Miami cruise. Heard from one I believe, down to zero soon totally under control.

Edited July 14, 2020 by meadowlander

[zekekelso]

50 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think people these days believe what they want to believe. People said we would by cruising in May. 

  
but did they say what year?

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

 

The chart lists all beds and available. Subtract the available from total for occupied. This is all beds no matter the reason. 
 

M8

Your assumption is at odds with this:

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/coronavirus/florida-changing-the-way-icu-beds-are-reported

 

Florida Surgeon General Scott Rivkees said he doesn't want hospitals to report the number of patients in intensive care unit beds, rather only those who are receiving an "intensive level of care." 

[CSHS1979]

41 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

While the older population for the most part adheres to the rules, the younger generation does not -- that is just fact.  Until Florida (especially South Florida) gets better at controlling its Millennial population (Gen Yers and Gen Zers) and Gen Xers, cruising out of MIA (PortMiami) is just not going to happen, period.

 

Don't kid yourself, I was in Publix outside a large central FL retirement mecca.

 

Lots of Seasoned Citizens not masking and going up and down the wrong lanes, gabbing with friends, not social distancing, and blocking aisles.

 

I was masking in my Chinese KN95

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by CSHS1979

[island lady]

7 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Don't kid yourself, I was in Publix outside a large central FL retirement mecca.

 

Lots of Seasoned Citizens not masking and going up and down the wrong lanes, gabbing with friends, not social distancing, and blocking aisles. They don't seem to care if you ask me.

 

I was masking in my Chinese KN95

 

Ahh..the Villages.  Not unfamiliar with spreading other things as well...unfortunately.  😮 

 

Older customers walking down wrong way in our Publix here in the eastern swamp also...but I think they were just lost.  😵   At least most of the seeming to be lost flock were wearing masks.  😉

Edited July 14, 2020 by island lady

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

If you take the total number of beds and subtract the beds that are available (booting people that don't need them) that will give you the number of truly occupied.  I am more concerned with the availability of beds -- that is what truly matters to me and that is what the Florida Department of Health is reporting.  

How does a physician decide who doesn't really need the bed when they report the daily count? The patients are presumably in the ICU beds for a reason and the doctors would prefer to move those patients only when they are ready to be moved and not because a more critical patient arrives. My point is, we would know more if both available and occupied beds were known. Then we could see how close to the edge we really are. Maybe it's insignificant, maybe not, but I feel like the numbers are being diluted by the governor for political purposes.

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Your assumption is at odds with this:

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/coronavirus/florida-changing-the-way-icu-beds-are-reported

 

Florida Surgeon General Scott Rivkees said he doesn't want hospitals to report the number of patients in intensive care unit beds, rather only those who are receiving an "intensive level of care." 

I am really confused by your point. You think hospitals are not reporting beds or what?
 

 

[livingonthebeach]

6 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Don't kid yourself, I was in Publix outside a large central FL retirement mecca.

 

Lots of Seasoned Citizens not masking and going up and down the wrong lanes, gabbing with friends, not social distancing, and blocking aisles.

 

I was masking in my Chinese KN95

 

 

Let me guess --  is that retirement mecca The Villages by any chance?   So Fl has it worse than Cen Fl -- for the most part seniors here are abiding.  There are of course offenders but anyone not wearing a mask here (Indoors or Outdoors) is fined if they are caught.  The Publix here won't let you in without a mask.  

[CSHS1979]

3 minutes ago, island lady said:

 

Ahh..the Villages.  Not unfamiliar with spreading other things as well...unfortunately.  😮 

 

Older customers walking down wrong way in our Publix here in the eastern swamp also...but I think they were just lost.  😵   At least most of the seeming to be lost flock were wearing masks.  😉

 

See, I'd be fine with that, mistakes happen. Not wearing a mask is a choice

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, island lady said:

Ahh..the Villages.  Not unfamiliar with spreading other things as well...unfortunately.  😮 

 

Yes the land of meaningful one-night relationships LOL 😂

[Pratique]

3 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I am really confused by your point. You think hospitals are not reporting beds or what?
 

 

If they are following the surgeon general's request, then they are only reporting ICU patients receiving an intensive level of care, however that is defined, which may be less than the total number of patients in ICU beds. I am not questioning the data as much as I am questioning why the state decided to change the way they report it.

[MrsKC08]

3 hours ago, molly361 said:

I read a story about a fmaily in Florida that went to get tested, filled out all the paperwork, got tired of waiting hours to get tested and went home.  Four days later they got their positive test results.  They NEVER GOT TESTED.  Who knows if that is true or not, just sayin

This same thing happened to friends we know here in Tennessee. They both went to get tested and waited an hour and half to get the test and decided to leave and try another testing facility. They drove by the other testing facility and the line was too long so they were going to go back in two days when it was open again. Got a call the following day from the first place saying their tests were positive...they never took that test! Again, we personally know these people.

 

55 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I agree the numbers are way too high but in order to bring them down, we have to get to the source of the problem.  It's not a blame game but rather an essential quest to know the specifics of what is causing the spike in order to mitigate it.  It looks like this virus is going to be with us for a while and we need to learn to live with it while not catching it until a vaccine, herd immunity or effective treatment is achieved.  In order for that to happen, we all have to do our part to social distance, wear masks in public and practice hygiene -- that's all we can do for now unfortunately. 

 

While the older population for the most part adheres to the rules, the younger generation does not -- that is just fact.  Until Florida (especially South Florida) gets better at controlling its Millennial population (Gen Yers and Gen Zers) and Gen Xers, cruising out of MIA (PortMiami) is just not going to happen, period.

I agree with the first part of your statement...this virus will be with us for a while and a vaccine isn't always the answer, especially one that is being rushed in the manner this is happening. Herd immunity and building up your immune system is a positive answer for sure. Masks, that's something I don't agree on...and we can agree to disagree on that. BUT, anywhere I've been in the past several months, it's the older folks that are not wearing masks unless forced to do so, but yet the millennials that are wearing the masks like they are a new accessory. Even my 90 year old in-laws do not wear masks, and one of which has a pacemaker (his 3rd).

 

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

23 minutes ago, CSHS1979 said:

 

Don't kid yourself, I was in Publix outside a large central FL retirement mecca.

 

Lots of Seasoned Citizens not masking and going up and down the wrong lanes, gabbing with friends, not social distancing, and blocking aisles.

 

I was masking in my Chinese KN95

 

@John&LaLa lives over that way on occasion. He’ll be back tomorrow. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

20 minutes ago, Pratique said:

How does a physician decide who doesn't really need the bed when they report the daily count? The patients are presumably in the ICU beds for a reason and the doctors would prefer to move those patients only when they are ready to be moved and not because a more critical patient arrives. My point is, we would know more if both available and occupied beds were known. Then we could see how close to the edge we really are. Maybe it's insignificant, maybe not, but I feel like the numbers are being diluted by the governor for political purposes.

You think they throw these people out on the street?  The hospitals report the beds to the State. You would need to get all 352 hospitals to report wrong. 

[molly361]

6 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

@John&LaLa lives over that way on occasion. He’ll be back tomorrow. 

He must to out of town😇

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think they throw these people out on the street?  The hospitals report the beds to the State. You would need to get all 352 hospitals to report wrong. 

You are misinterpreting me (I never suggested this) but I've made my point several times so I'll quit now.

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 minutes ago, Pratique said:

If they are following the surgeon general's request, then they are only reporting ICU patients receiving an intensive level of care, however that is defined, which may be less than the total number of patients in ICU beds. I am not questioning the data as much as I am questioning why the state decided to change the way they report it.

So they could fire the lady who the media is making her famous. Where are all the other whistle blowers?  A bed is a bed. Typically only patients that need constant monitoring require an ICU beds. Beds, although important, are not the most important thing. Staff is. 
 

Are you hoping we fail? I’m not. I am concerned as the boss rounds three hospitals and has been consulted on COVID19 patients. My son is an ICU RN in the States largest hospital. 
 

M8