PVSA

[Arizona Wildcat]

5 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

Has a lot to do with logical thinking.  For example, a cruise ship leaving San Diego to Hawaii and return has to stop at Ensenada, Mexico, for a few hours prior to returning to San Diego.  There is no logical reason for that other than an antiquated law.    On its face value, it's stupid.  I don't really care why it "is."  You can spout all the reasons why this has to be that way, but looking at it without rose colored glasses, I see no logic in it.  🍷

Logic has nothing to do with it.  It is the law and unless Congress changes the law we have status quo.

I can as a history professor tell you that when the law was passed there were many US flagged and crewed ships.  PVSA worked effectively until the 1950s to preserve those ships.

[Wine-O]

3 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Logic has nothing to do with it.  It is the law and unless Congress changes the law we have status quo.

I can as a history professor tell you that when the law was passed there were many US flagged and crewed ships.  PVSA worked effectively until the 1950s to preserve those ships.

Hello!  We know it's the law.  That's been established.  When's the last time Congress passed a law that makes any sense is all I'm saying.  I'm just saying it's a stupid law that makes no logical sense in today's world.   It may have made sense at the time it was passed, but that time has passed in my opinion.   🍷

[grandgeezer]

There's no way this law gets changed, to appease the cruise industry and it's loyal customers. It's a very small percentage and most of the non cruisers couldn't care less. Except for one RCL ship, they aren't even flagged here, let them take care of the industry. Either adapt or fail. Over time, there's a lot of businesses that went under, and the country still prospers.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Logic has nothing to do with it.  It is the law and unless Congress changes the law we have status quo.

I can as a history professor tell you that when the law was passed there were many US flagged and crewed ships.  PVSA worked effectively until the 1950s to preserve those ships.

The PVSA still works effectively for the 800+ passenger vessels (50 or more passengers) and several hundred more smaller boats that ply US harbors and waterways.

[sanger727]

17 hours ago, Wine-O said:

Hello!  We know it's the law.  That's been established.  When's the last time Congress passed a law that makes any sense is all I'm saying.  I'm just saying it's a stupid law that makes no logical sense in today's world.   It may have made sense at the time it was passed, but that time has passed in my opinion.   🍷

 

Do you really think it's the law that's illogical or the ability to shortcut it. If the law exists to protect American industries, workers, businesses, and safety - those are all good reasons. But yes, there is a flaw in the logic if it's very easy to shortcut the law with a port stop for a few hours to make it halfway useless in some situations. Doesn't make the law wrong. Just means that there are always people trying to find the loopholes. 

[Wine-O]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

Do you really think it's the law that's illogical or the ability to shortcut it. If the law exists to protect American industries, workers, businesses, and safety - those are all good reasons. But yes, there is a flaw in the logic if it's very easy to shortcut the law with a port stop for a few hours to make it halfway useless in some situations. Doesn't make the law wrong. Just means that there are always people trying to find the loopholes. 

You have your opinion, and I have mine.   It may have made sense at the time, but it is antiquated and makes no logical sense in this day and time.  🍷

[sanger727]

8 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

You have your opinion, and I have mine.   It may have made sense at the time, but it is antiquated and makes no logical sense in this day and time.  🍷

 

I don't actually have an opinion about it. I recognize that I don't know enough of the history and industry to form a good basis for an educated opinion. But when the industry people and history buffs on this forum point out the reasons for it, I'm willing to accept that. 

[rhblake]

22 hours ago, Wine-O said:

You have your opinion, and I have mine.   It may have made sense at the time, but it is antiquated and makes no logical sense in this day and time.  🍷

Try to explain that to the American seamen who work on ships plying the US coastal waters.

[Wine-O]

20 minutes ago, rhblake said:

Try to explain that to the American seamen who work on ships plying the US coastal waters.

I'd be more than happy to.  A cruise ship traveling from San Diego to Hawaii and back shouldn't have to stop in Ensenada to comply with some antiquated law.  It makes no logical sense in this day and time.  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  🍷

[chengkp75]

33 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

I'd be more than happy to.  A cruise ship traveling from San Diego to Hawaii and back shouldn't have to stop in Ensenada to comply with some antiquated law.  It makes no logical sense in this day and time.  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  🍷

Of course, the operative word missing from your second sentence is "foreign flag", but let's let that go.  Okay, so we exempt/rescind/don't enforce the PVSA.  Then the non-US crew are now working exclusively in the US.  That means that the crew all need to get US work visas, and US labor laws would apply.  And, US taxes would apply to the corporate revenues.  And I won't even get into the snake pit of whether the ships would fall under USCG jurisdiction, and US maritime laws regarding certification, training, and safety equipment.  That has nothing to do with the PVSA, but with US immigration law, tax law, and USCG regulations but maybe you think those are antiquated as well?  How much do you think the cruise fare would increase if that were the case?  Try looking at NCL's Pride of America for an example.

[Shmoo here]

On 8/25/2020 at 9:55 AM, Wine-O said:

I think it is stupid that someone sailing from Hawaii to Vancouver can't stay on the same ship to cruise Alaska.

Of course they can, as long as the Alaska cruise following the Hawaii/Vancouver cruise is a round trip cruise out of Vancouver.

[nocl]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:08 AM, Arizona Wildcat said:

Logic has nothing to do with it.  It is the law and unless Congress changes the law we have status quo.

I can as a history professor tell you that when the law was passed there were many US flagged and crewed ships.  PVSA worked effectively until the 1950s to preserve those ships.

there are a lot of ships and jobs still protected by pvsa, just not large cruise ships. it also applies to tour boats, ferries and a lot more.