Would HAL swap the Zaandam for a larger ship for the world cruise???

[Hflors]

With the latest change of ships for Greece this summer I got to thinking  about the world cruises.  With the demand for the world cruise I would think HAL would swap out the Zaandam for one of HAL's larger ships.  Most of the larger ships hold about 500 more passengers.  I don't think that would hurt their bottom line.  Before the cruise I was booked on for hawaii tahiti on volendam was switched to Zuiderdam I would not have thought that would have happened due to the number of tender ports, but HAL did it.   Now I am wondering if Hal will be thinking about an increase of passengers for the world cruise.  Anyone have any thoughts?

[FRANKIEDNYC]

My guess is no.  The world cruise is not that big of a moneymaker for them, as us old timers don't spend that much on board. Also we tend to gravitate towards private tours.  By 10pm the ship is deserted.  They do much better with the younger crowds on the shorter cruise s who party half the night and take lots of ship rxcursions

[kazu]

My guess is no, too.

 

The larger ships might not be able to get to all of the ports that the Zaandam can or, if they can, it might require far more tenders.

[Hlitner]

A few years ago I was involved in a friendly discussion with an HAL Hotel Manager about the "World" and some of the other ambitious Grand Cruises.  He told me they were not the money makers that many of us thought and were sometimes more about prestige and marketing the brand more then the bottom line.  Why?  Consider who takes these long expensive cruises.  We are mostly older retirees who have a lot of cruise/travel experience.  Many of us are early to rise and early to retire to the cabin.  Most of us are not heavy drinkers (if we drink at all), do not use the ship photographers, and simply do not spend much money onboard.  As previously mentioned, many of us either book small group private tours or simply do our own thing.  And these long cruises generally involve cruising very long distances which increase fuel costs.   So the business plan concept of "maximizing onboard revenue" is mostly lost on those cruises.

 

COVID is going to certainly increase pressure on all the cruise lines to increase revenue/profits in order to pay down all the newly acquired debt.  HAL is not well suited to increase profits because increased cruise prices could drive folks to the more luxurious smaller ship lines.  I do fear for the future of HAL and hope it does not morph into something none of us recognize.

 

Hank

[iancal]

Celebrity is moving towards AI.  Their prices have increased well  beyond the value of the items that they are bundling into the new fare structure.....internet, drinks package, tips.

 

The result....some Celebrity cruisers are finding that they can get much better value for the same or for a slightly increased price by moving to a truly high end cruise line.

 

HAL is clearly having this issue with some of it's pricing models.

 

The danger is that younger cruisers like us, in our late 60's, have no issue with trying other ships, other cruise lines based upon the the product and the value that they deliver. 

 

It is not about the past five, ten, or twenty cruises.....it is about the product and the value we select on our very next cruise that counts for us.

Edited May 15, 2021 by iancal

[Copper10-8]

Nope 🤓

[KirkNC]

Until 2020, the full segments never sold out on the Amsterdam which was smaller then the Zaandam.  IMO 2020 only sold out because it included both Antarctica and Africa.   Now with no sailing for 15 months demand is high for all cruises but I don’t believe HAL can count on selling out the Zaandam much less a bigger ship after that pent up demand abates.

Edited May 15, 2021 by KirkNC

[Sir PMP]

No, they want to make sure that the pax will experience how they destroyed the explorer's lounge with the new, always empty, Lincoln center..

[kazu]

3 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Until 2020, the full segments never sold out on the Amsterdam which was smaller then the Zaandam.  IMO 2020 only sold out because it included both Antarctica and Africa.   Now with no sailing for 15 months demand is high for all cruises but I don’t believe HAL can count on selling out the Zaandam much less a bigger ship after that pent up demand abates.

 

The Volendam isn’t that much bigger than Amsterdam was.  Less than 100 passenger difference.  But that’s an interesting fact that the full segments never sold out.  Thanks 🙂 

[KirkNC]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

The Volendam isn’t that much bigger than Amsterdam was.  Less than 100 passenger difference.  But that’s an interesting fact that the full segments never sold out.  Thanks 🙂 

I thought the OP was referring to a Pinnacle class ship.

[kazu]

Just now, KirkNC said:

I thought the OP was referring to a Pinnacle class ship.

 

Oh apologies if I misread your post.  

[Copper10-8]

26 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Until 2020, the full segments never sold out on the Amsterdam which was smaller then the Zaandam.  IMO 2020 only sold out because it included both Antarctica and Africa.   Now with no sailing for 15 months demand is high for all cruises but I don’t believe HAL can count on selling out the Zaandam much less a bigger ship after that pent up demand abates.

 

Sorry Sir; the other way around:

 

Zaandam 61,396 GRT

Amsterdam 62,735 GRT

[KirkNC]

9 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Sorry Sir; the other way around:

 

Zaandam 61,396 GRT

Amsterdam 62,735 GRT

I thought the Zaandam carries more passengers, I can’t verify it since the Amsterdam is gone.

[KirkNC]

Yea I could find the info, Amsterdam 1,390 passengers and Zaandam 1,432 passengers.  Us landlubbers talk in passengers not tonnage 😉

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I thought the Zaandam carries more passengers, I can’t verify it since the Amsterdam is gone.

 

That is true, exactly 52 more

 

Zaandam 1,432

Amsterdam 1,380

 

However, Amsterdam is/was still the bigger ship

[AtlantaCruiser72]

@KirkNC The Zaandam/Volendam saw the number of Neptune Suites reduced, and as a result the number of Vista Suites increased, as compared to the Amsterdam.  This is where the additional passenger #s come from on Zaandam/Volendam.  The size, number & arrangement of both indoor and outdoor public spaces on the ships is/was nearly identical between Amsterdam and Zaandam/Volendam.  The calculation of GRT and the discrepancies between the three ships is fairly irrelevant as a result.

 

HAL could move to a Vista Class for the World/Grand Voyages if they desired, but as some have said it might make certain ports/itinerary patterns (Amazon River for example) impossible with the larger vessel.  HAL would also need to more aggressively market/sell segments than they currently do.  Eventually they will be forced to upsize as the Zaandam/Volendam are both 22 years old and not getting any younger.

[St Pete Cruiser]

21 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

That is true, exactly 52 more

 

Zaandam 1,432

Amsterdam 1,380

 

However, Amsterdam is/was still the bigger ship

Correct me if wrong, but wasn't that because Amsterdam had more Neptune Suites than Zaandam, which mean fewer rooms overall and thus less guest capacity.

[Copper10-8]

Just now, St Pete Cruiser said:

Correct me if wrong, but wasn't that because Amsterdam had more Neptune Suites than Zaandam, which mean fewer rooms overall and thus less guest capacity.

 

 

No need to correct 😉 Amsterdam had 36 Neptune suites while Zaandam has 28

 

[ScottishMaid]

Fred Olsen cruises has given the Amsterdam, now Bolette, a makeover and has designated 50 of the cabins singles. The carpets in the inside cabins are hideous IMHO and they have replaced the sofas with two chairs.

Also it is interesting to see how they have put the cabins into categories - not the same as HAL. See the Fred Olsen website. They expect to sail in a few weeks time on no port stop short scenic cruises.

 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

2 hours ago, iancal said:

 

 

The danger is that younger cruisers like us, in our late 60's, .....

Sorry for going off topic, but this is the most accurate, and hilarious, indication of HAL’s target market that I’ve ever read. I kinda like being classified as younger cruisers, though!

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

A few years ago I was involved in a friendly discussion with an HAL Hotel Manager about the "World" and some of the other ambitious Grand Cruises.  He told me they were not the money makers that many of us thought and were sometimes more about prestige and marketing the brand more then the bottom line.  Why?  Consider who takes these long expensive cruises.  We are mostly older retirees who have a lot of cruise/travel experience.  Many of us are early to rise and early to retire to the cabin.  Most of us are not heavy drinkers (if we drink at all), do not use the ship photographers, and simply do not spend much money onboard.  As previously mentioned, many of us either book small group private tours or simply do our own thing.

 

😀 Early to arise and early to retire for the evening?  Booked few HAL shore excursions?  Was not a daily attendee at either the Ocean Bar or the Crow's Nest at HH?  Not rkacruiser.  I did my share in providing profit for HAL during my world cruise.

 

 

4 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

HAL could move to a Vista Class for the World/Grand Voyages if they desired, but as some have said it might make certain ports/itinerary patterns (Amazon River for example) impossible with the larger vessel. 

 

Agree.  I don't think such a change from the planned Zaandam's or the Volendam's planned long itineraries are at risk.  My opinion:  HAL needs to maintain their frequent long itinerary cruisers.  With the Amsterdam fiasco of 2020, stability of product, service, itinerary, etc. needs to be provided in order to keep these folks "in the flock".  

 

Will change be happening?  Of course.  While the Zaandam and the Volendam remain excellent vessels in my most recent experiences on both, their life spans are like mine:  the end is coming.  When?  

 

In the coming "new era" of cruising, HAL may need a new business model.  Will world cruises be a part of that?  

[AtlantaCruiser72]

15 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Will change be happening?  Of course.  While the Zaandam and the Volendam remain excellent vessels in my most recent experiences on both, their life spans are like mine:  the end is coming.  When?  

 

In the coming "new era" of cruising, HAL may need a new business model.  Will world cruises be a part of that?  

 

Princess have moved both of their World Cruises (Winter from US, Summer from AU) to the Island and Coral, both 90K tonnes and 2000+ pax, so ever so slightly larger than the HAL Vista Class vessels, and Cunard has done WC / Grand Voyages for years on the QM2, QE and QV - all bigger than Vistas.  That said they have to skip some smaller ports that cannot be reached on a 90K tonne+ vessel and they rely more heavily on segment sales than full voyage sales.  This may by the model going forward for HAL as well, but hopefully not for at least another 10+ years if they can keep Volendam/Zaandam viable financially.

 

Looking at the 4 Vista Class Noordam might be the logical choice to replace on the WC/GV sailings when time comes as she has NOT had the refit of the Crows Nest to the EXC concept and still retains the large Library/Explorations cafe on deck 3 as originally built.  That would probably be less onerous than shifting to one of her siblings for most loyalists of the WC/GV sailings.

[rkacruiser]

4 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

Looking at the 4 Vista Class Noordam might be the logical choice to replace on the WC/GV sailings when time comes as she has NOT had the refit of the Crows Nest to the EXC concept and still retains the large Library/Explorations cafe on deck 3 as originally built.  That would probably be less onerous than shifting to one of her siblings for most loyalists of the WC/GV sailings.

 

100% agree if that should be the decision.  Besides, she is the newest of the sisters of that Class and, I assume, incorporated improvements/efficiencies learned from her elder sisters.  

[Sir PMP]

57 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

100% agree if that should be the decision.  Besides, she is the newest of the sisters of that Class and, I assume, incorporated improvements/efficiencies learned from her elder sisters.  

Correct, and she's also in the best shape..

[MoreAK]

As a 5-star Mariner, but first time World Cruiser on WC2020, I heard (from other passengers when we were bobbing in the pool) that HAL was THRILLED that over 400 passengers were first time World Cruisers on WC2020. They were also pretty happy that the expensive, Over Land/Over Night, excursions sold out very quickly, probably due to new passengers.