With cruising starting to open up, what defines an approved vaccine, particularly for non US residents?

[lobsternight]

I noticed on a CC post today that Alaska will be open to passengers fully vaccinated with an approved vaccine. I am looking down the road now at my next cruise out of FFL in December.

 

My DW and I have had our first shots, they were AstraZeneca, which I believe is not currently authorized in the US.  It is likely our second shot will be another brand currently authorized in the US.

 

Can anyone shed some light for us foreigners in the coming months who would like to sail, and are fully vaccinated by vaccines approved in our home countries?

[ColeThornton]

I was under the impression that Covid vaccine brands were not supposed to be mixed.  Is that wrong?

[njhorseman]

19 minutes ago, lobsternight said:

I noticed on a CC post today that Alaska will be open to passengers fully vaccinated with an approved vaccine. I am looking down the road now at my next cruise out of FFL in December.

 

My DW and I have had our first shots, they were AstraZeneca, which I believe is not currently authorized in the US.  It is likely our second shot will be another brand currently authorized in the US.

 

Can anyone shed some light for us foreigners in the coming months who would like to sail, and are fully vaccinated by vaccines approved in our home countries?

First, the situation is so fluid that no one could possibly guess what, if any, requirements will be in place in December.

 

Second, where is FFL? Do you mean FLL, Fort Lauderdale ?

 

Third if it is FLL, which is in Florida, there is an executive order in place that will be replaced by an enacted law on July 1 prohibiting businesses, including cruise lines, from requiring proof of vaccination, although it is widely thought that the law will not withstand  a legal challenge for businesses such as cruise lines engaged in interstate or foreign commerce.

 

Fourth, different cruise lines may have different requirements.  For example NCL says:

"Vaccines that have been authorized for use by the World Health Organization (WHO), U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or the European Medicines Agency (EMA) will be accepted." You need to look at your cruise line's rules, though I suspect they are similar.

 

As an aside I'm not aware of second vaccine doses being administered that are not the same vaccine as the first dose. AFAIK that has never been studied nor has that approach been approved anywhere I'm aware of...certainly that's not approved in the US.  Has Canada authorized doing that?

[njhorseman]

15 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

I was under the impression that Covid vaccine brands were not supposed to be mixed.  Is that wrong?

AFAIK you are right. I don't believe that has been studied or approved.

[CruiserBruce]

45 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

I was under the impression that Covid vaccine brands were not supposed to be mixed.  Is that wrong?

The CDC has not approved mixed dosing, but other countries, including Canada and the UK, are officially experimenting with the concept, with positive results. 

 

To the OP's question, vaccines approved by Western equivalents of the FDA is a good place to start.

[lobsternight]

Njhorseman,  thank you for your response, and sorry for my typos, yes I ment FLL (good thing i don't handle baggage right?).   In Canada we are currently having test trials about mixing vaccines.  I believe the same is under way in the UK and Spain, with promising results so far.  I will be signing up on the provincial government web site for whatever I can get when there is approval.  My pharmacy advises I do so as I won't get a second dose of AstraZeneca for another 3 months, and only if they can get it. On the bright side kids 12 and older are approved now.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, ColeThornton said:

I was under the impression that Covid vaccine brands were not supposed to be mixed.  Is that wrong?

 

The UK currently has a trial group underway for mixing AZ & Pfizer. Initial reports indicate that the reaction to the different 2nd shot is more substantial than getting the same vaccine twice. Initial reports also indicate a tentative increase of antibodies, but this will not be confirmed until the final report in early June.

 

Canada is monitoring the UK study closely and in BC, our excellent Provincial Health Officer has indicated those of us that got AZ may have an option of a different vaccine for shot # 2. Since I received AZ, I am watching the study.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Heidi13

[John Bull]

13 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

The CDC has not approved mixed dosing, but other countries, including Canada and the UK, are officially experimenting with the concept, with positive results. 

 

To the OP's question, vaccines approved by Western equivalents of the FDA is a good place to start.

 

As per Bruce's comment, yes mixed first & second doses are in trial in the UK - and results seem to be encouraging (i.e. better), altho' it's still early days.

 

Just personal opinion, but I think that for international travel CDC and the cruise lines are likely to accept proof of any WHO-approved vaccines.

If not, they might as well cancel their European cruises.

 

JB 🙂

Edited May 22, 2021 by John Bull

[George C]

23 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

The CDC has not approved mixed dosing, but other countries, including Canada and the UK, are officially experimenting with the concept, with positive results. 

 

To the OP's question, vaccines approved by Western equivalents of the FDA is a good place to start.

I heard Fauci saying you could get one shot of one and a different one , but only with Pfizer and Moderna since they were very similar.

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, John Bull said:

 

Just personal opinion, but I think that for international travel CDC and the cruise lines are likely to accept proof of any WHO-approved vaccines.

If not, they might as well cancel their European cruises.

 

JB 🙂

 

Can't speak for other cruise lines, but Viking have indicated they accept any of the WHO approved vaccines.

 

They initially stated FDA approval only, but I pointed out that since the US still hasn't approved Astra Zenica, it would eliminate much of their UK & Canadian customer base.

[CruiserBruce]

19 minutes ago, George C said:

I heard Fauci saying you could get one shot of one and a different one , but only with Pfizer and Moderna since they were very similar.

Actually, the UK, I know, is studying mixing the types, as in Pfizer first, then Astra/Zenica second, as they are different types of vaccines, and they are hoping their combined, but different styles will work better on variants. I saw Fauci's comments on Moderna and Pfizer...I think his comments were a bit more about what happens if the second of the type you got first isn't available, can you take the other. That almost happened to me...I got Moderna, and the site I got it at was trying to get out of the Moderna business for some reason. But I needed the 4 week window, so I ended up with Moderna, and the second shot wasn't actually a problem. This was back when the supplies were a bit less consistent.

[Aplmac]

18 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Can't speak for other cruise lines,

but Viking have indicated they accept any of the WHO approved vaccines.

 

They initially stated FDA approval only, but I pointed out

that since the US still hasn't approved AstraZeneca,

it would eliminate much of their UK & Canadian customer base.

 

There's a whole lotta other world customers to be excluded

due to AstraZeneca, myself included!!

 

Cruise lines and the CDC better get this sorted!
There's money to be made - OR LOST!

[CruiserBruce]

@aplmac, WHO approved AZ back in February, so you are good.

 

 FDA does the main approval in the US. The FDA has had issues with AZ's recordkeeping, and the issue of how several thousand test subjects managed to only get half the recommended first dose, and had a better efficacy on the half dose. I think the FDA may have required another Phase 3 study at half first dose.

[Aplmac]

Having read this thread,

I posted queries on that Book of Faces

to alert travellers (air and sea!) about the possibility of non/acceptance

for AstraZeneca, which is our only choice

here on this Eastern Caribbean island!

 

An island-resident lady friend if mine, now in Spain...

wrote about her travel experiences from Barbados, thru London Heathrow
and onward to Madrid, and ultimately Bilbao.

 

Seems that NOwhere were authorities the slightest bit interested
in any form of vaccination certification that she travelled with

and presented.
It was Negative PCR Test Result, all the way -and everywhere!
That's what they want to see: your negative PCR test result!

She also mentioned horrific, time-consuming online-form filling outs
in response to which you are emailed a barcode,

and you'd better have that barcode available to show them

or yew ain't goin nowhar!

 

Mind you, this is all EUROPE - but it sure makes me glad
I have no bookings or intentions to travel anywhere soon.

I hope this might be of some use to folks travelling in Europe.

[Aplmac]

53 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

@aplmac, WHO approved AZ back in February, so you are good.

 

Thank you for the reassurance, regarding W.H.O. approval.

 

CDC,USA is another matter....

but I reckon there's light at the end of this tunnel.

Thanks again Buddy.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Aplmac said:

Having read this thread,

I posted queries on that Book of Faces

to alert travellers (air and sea!) about the possibility of non/acceptance

for AstraZeneca, which is our only choice

here on this Eastern Caribbean island!

 

An island-resident lady friend if mine, now in Spain...

wrote about her travel experiences from Barbados, thru London Heathrow
and onward to Madrid, and ultimately Bilbao.

 

Seems that NOwhere were authorities the slightest bit interested
in any form of vaccination certification that she travelled with

and presented.
It was Negative PCR Test Result, all the way -and everywhere!
That's what they want to see: your negative PCR test result!

She also mentioned horrific, time-consuming online-form filling outs
in response to which you are emailed a barcode,

and you'd better have that barcode available to show them

or yew ain't goin nowhar!

 

Mind you, this is all EUROPE - but it sure makes me glad
I have no bookings or intentions to travel anywhere soon.

I hope this might be of some use to folks travelling in Europe.

Just keep in mind that the acceptable travel standards have been going through several changes over the past week.  Just this part Thursday, the European Commission approved a new scheme (which is not recommended to their 27 member countries) that will allow travel both within the EU and from certain outside countries (with COVID infection rates below 70 cases per 100,000) based on proof of vaccination...without further testing or quarantine.  Up until that EU vote the gold standard in places where you could travel was a negative PCR test.  But now, over the next few weeks you can expect to see the change to accepting proof of vaccination without any testing.  There are still some questions of what "proof of vaccination" documents will be accepted.  Today I saw that Spain plans to reopen to vaccinated travelers in about 2 weeks (June 7) but is still working on what documentation will be accepted.   It does appear that the EU is moving towards an electronic vaccine passport for EU residents.  What is done for those of us from outside Europe is still a question although it does sound like we would simply need to upload our vaccine documents through an app.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[Philob]

1 hour ago, Aplmac said:

Seems that NOwhere were authorities the slightest bit interested
in any form of vaccination certification that she travelled with

and presented.
It was Negative PCR Test Result, all the way -and everywhere!
That's what they want to see: your negative PCR test result!

IMO this will be the standard requirement for entry into most countries for the foreseeable future. While the EU and other countries are working on vaccine passports, that's unlikely going to happen in the US.

 

How cruise lines will handle this with their ports of call and especially the disembarkation port is above my pay grade, but I have my guesses.

 

 

 

 

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Philob said:

IMO this will be the standard requirement for entry into most countries for the foreseeable future. While the EU and other countries are working on vaccine passports, that's unlikely going to happen in the US.

 

How cruise lines will handle this with their ports of call and especially the disembarkation port is above my pay grade, but I have my guesses.

 

 

 

 

I think you are a little out of date.  Consider that the Greece has already implemented entrance via proof of vaccine (for the US folks they will accept our CDC form).  And as I have posted, the entire EU (all 27 countries) just agreed (on Thursday) to adopt a policy accepting proof of vaccination.  While the EU is trying to move towards some kind of digital vaccine passport that may or may not happen.  Meanwhile, it seems that US folks (and others) will soon be able to enter other EU countries (besides Greece) within a few weeks by simply showing their CDC vaccine card.  We are also seeing this card accepted in Caribbean islands that have vaccine requirements (such as Barbados).  

 

As to cruise lines, most lines have already announced (and in some cases implemented) a 100% vaccine policy.  In July we will be cruising on Seabourn which will accept our CDC card (as will Greece where we must fly for that cruise).  It also sounds very likely that Alaskan cruises (from Seattle) that are supposed to start in late July (pending a deal with the CDC) will require vaccinations which will be done via the CDC vaccine cards.

 

There are already some digital COVID Passport apps in use by a few airlines (one example is called Verifly) which generally require a person to fill out their forms and upload a copy of their vaccine cards.   Unfortunately, with out a single international digital standard we are likely to see a continuation of multiple apps, digital passports, and hard copy documents.  This is a hassle for travelers and we must be careful to check and verify the requirements of each country where we travel or even transit.

 

Hank

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

which is not recommended to their 27 member countries

Just curious...did you intend to say "which is now recommended to their 27 member countries"? 

[Hlitner]

8 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Just curious...did you intend to say "which is now recommended to their 27 member countries"? 

yep!  Guess it brings to mind "listen to what I mean..not what I mis type"  :).  Thinking all their through it is pretty obvious there will be some cheating when it comes to folks proving they are vaccinated.  But they should be very careful because if they do get sick with COVID (especially when traveling) they might find themselves paying out huge sums of their own money for healthcare, quarantine costs, possible fines, and even potential civil liability.  For folks that are fully vaccinated the unvaccinated are really not a threat unless they are on your cruise ship and cause a pre-mature end to the cruise when they get sick.  IMHO cruise lines should hold those folks responsible and legally seek to recover civil damages (which could easily be in the $millions for a single COVID case).

 

Hank

[Aplmac]

This whole mess is still evolving, isn't it?!

And won't be anywhere near stable and settled before Jan. 1st. 2022

-at the earliest!!