Spending…. Card or cash?

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

I've received debit cards for various rebate situations.  Rec'd checks too.  I didn't think the debit cards odd at all until I read these posts.   I agree, a check would be easier to process into my account.  The debit cards we typically use for grocery shopping or whatever until they are used up.   

 

Cheques are nearly obsolete in Australia. Usually companies EFT refunds. I wonder why in the USA prepaid debit cards are preferred over EFT🤔?

[Kristal Blade]

I never realised my initial question would reveal so many differences between payment methods around the world! In fact it seems like it is USA 🇺🇸 lagging behind the rest of the world in adopting “safer” payment methods.

 

I’m going to try not to have a panic attack if a server goes off with my card in a US restaurant. Maybe we will continue to take a stack of dollars!

 

Happy and safe spending, everyone.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Kristal Blade said:

I never realised my initial question would reveal so many differences between payment methods around the world! In fact it seems like it is USA 🇺🇸 lagging behind the rest of the world in adopting “safer” payment methods.

 

I’m going to try not to have a panic attack if a server goes off with my card in a US restaurant. Maybe we will continue to take a stack of dollars!

 

Happy and safe spending, everyone.

Sadly, the US is behind - most notably in not promoting wider use of chip and pin cards.  The typical American in Europe often has a hard time buying gasoline or train or metro tickets - even paying for a meal at some restaurants.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Cheques are nearly obsolete in Australia. Usually companies EFT refunds. I wonder why in the USA prepaid debit cards are preferred over EFT🤔?

 

Checks are on their way out here too, I think.   If we are talking refunds, I commonly see EFTs when an autopay account of some kind is set up.   EFTs are becoming common for peer-to-peer payments.  Otherwise, I don't recall seeing an EFT used for a refund from a merchant.  

Edited November 29, 2021 by ldubs

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Sadly, the US is behind - most notably in not promoting wider use of chip and pin cards.  The typical American in Europe often has a hard time buying gasoline or train or metro tickets - even paying for a meal at some restaurants.

 

What?  I have never had an issue with buying gaso or anything else in Europe for quite some time now.   Chip cards have been in use here for quite a while.   I'm pretty sure I'm a typical American.  

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

What?  I have never had an issue with buying gaso or anything else in Europe for quite some time now.   Chip cards have been in use here for quite a while.   I'm pretty sure I'm a typical American.  

Most US credit cards are not chip and pin capable for use at unmanned facilities overseas.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Most US credit cards are not chip and pin capable for use at unmanned facilities overseas.

 

That used to be the case.  Chip cards have been rolled out for a long time.  I daresay it would be hard to get a new card without a chip.  Now, it might be the case that not all merchants in the US have adopted use of the card's chip features.  

[slidergirl]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That used to be the case.  Chip cards have been rolled out for a long time.  I daresay it would be hard to get a new card without a chip.  Now, it might be the case that not all merchants in the US have adopted use of the card's chip features.  

Yes just about every card in the US has a chip.  But how it is used is another thingt. Chip & PIN is NOT Chip & Sig.  the very large part of US Credit Cards are C&S still.  At my old hotel, for every 100fc Credit cards, maybe 1 was C&P.  Debit cards are another thing.  

The Navy FCU gives C&P cards.  Chase has some C&P.   I'm up for my AMEX Plat renewal in Feb - they said no C&P yet.  

[Kristal Blade]

20 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Yes just about every card in the US has a chip.  But how it is used is another thingt. Chip & PIN is NOT Chip & Sig.  the very large part of US Credit Cards are C&S still.  At my old hotel, for every 100fc Credit cards, maybe 1 was C&P.  Debit cards are another thing.  

The Navy FCU gives C&P cards.  Chase has some C&P.   I'm up for my AMEX Plat renewal in Feb - they said no C&P yet.  

But our U.K. Amex card is chip and pin!!

[the penguins]

45 minutes ago, Kristal Blade said:

But our U.K. Amex card is chip and pin!!

UK - not the same company. If you buy in $ it's treated as a foreign currency with all the charges. Good for AVIOS though we gave just used our free companion voucher for return business class to and from Dallas. We cruise each way (April and October so 2 cruises out of one airticket.

[rkacruiser]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:31 AM, mjkacmom said:

Plus it’s customary to tip at the bar. Are you going to NYC? Some folks who get cash tips are valets, bellmen, taxi drivers (although most have credit card readers, not sure if they are always working), porters at cruise ship piers…

 

On 11/23/2021 at 3:21 PM, Kristal Blade said:

We will be in Nevada, Utah, Colorado and New York first. Then Vancouver and Alaska.

 

OP, the above poster offers good advice in my opinion.  One never knows when one is going to need some cash.  Given where you are visiting, particular New York and Vancouver, take some small denominated bills.  US dollars, for tips, would be accepted in Vancouver, but having a few CAD$5 bills would not be a bad idea.  

[rkacruiser]

My most recently issued credit cards replacing those that have expired have chips.  I use them; no pin required.  Is there something with these cards that I am missing by having no pin?  

[TheOldBear]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

My most recently issued credit cards replacing those that have expired have chips.  I use them; no pin required.  Is there something with these cards that I am missing by having no pin?  

Its a security option - my chipped card was compromised earlier this year [simultaneous suspect purchases in Southampton UK and San Francisco] and the credit union required a PIN for the replacement card [can select/change the PIN on their web site].  Not all merchants prompt for a PIN, even when the terminal is self service [fast food places do not; supermarkets and auto part stores do].

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

My most recently issued credit cards replacing those that have expired have chips.  I use them; no pin required.  Is there something with these cards that I am missing by having no pin?  

Yes - they will be useless in Europe if you try to buy gasoline at an unmanned pump or a train or metro ticket from a machine or even dinner at many smaller restaurants.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Kristal Blade said:

But our U.K. Amex card is chip and pin!!

Your UK Amex card is evidence that the UK (along with the rest of Europe) is more advanced than the US.

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That used to be the case.  Chip cards have been rolled out for a long time.  I daresay it would be hard to get a new card without a chip.  Now, it might be the case that not all merchants in the US have adopted use of the card's chip features.  

And most card issuers in the US have not adopted the chip and pin technology.   Having the chip is just part of the story.

[Charles4515]

16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

And most card issuers in the US have not adopted the chip and pin technology.   Having the chip is just part of the story.

 

US card issuers have not adapted the pin for use in the US and I predict they never wiln. They have even gotten rid of the signature requirement. Not requiriung signatrure or pin is more advanced, not less advanced. As far as the problem it may cause travelers we can obtain chip and pin cards. Card issued by Barcley and AMEX can be chip and pin cards. I have both. ( i hve not encountered a request in Europe though for a pin) The future though is tap. on the transport systems in in Europe I used Apple Pay. Tapped my Apple watch. Since my last trip abroad all my credid cards, AMEX, Barcley, Chase have been reisssued with tap capability. Tap your credit card, phone or watch is more advanced than insering a chip card and much faster. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

US card issuers have not adapted the pin for use in the US and I predict they never wiln. They have even gotten rid of the signature requirement. Not requiriung signatrure or pin is more advanced, not less advanced. ...

Are you kidding?  How is making it possible for a thief to use your card without using a pin known only to you, or at least a signature an advancement in security?

 

Or an advancement in any other practical fashion.  

 

Think for a minute!

Edited November 30, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[Catlover54]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you kidding?  How is making it possible for a thief to use your card without using a pin known only to you, or at least a signature an advancement in security?

 

Or an advancement in any other practical fashion.  

 

Think for a minute!

The practical part, is that it is faster, so more stuff gets sold faster, more profits.  TAP can do that too.

Here is an article from today, about AMEX now going signature-free (and pin-free) even for big purchases  (unless the merchant requires it -- and gas stations in the SF Bay area still want zip codes, even for small purchases).

 

https://www.mybanktracker.com/credit-cards/faq/no-signature-credit-card-purchases-275769

 

As for security?  I don't think they'd be rolling this out for extension if they had had big problems with the "less than $50, no signature required" rule AMEX had for several years. It is not intuitive.

Companies also have more security measures today  -- they track your spending, alert you, and bug you more (especially AMEX), plus they indemnify you for non-authorized charges you can dispute (like cruise refunds you aren't getting :).  AMEX bugs me so much that since Covid, I cannot even get them to send my bill to my rural P.O. Box, as we have no door delivery (I like paper to back up online, for various reasons).  They want a physical house address but if I give it to them, they send it to the house, where nothing will be delivered and it is returned to sender.  Multiple calls to clarify the situation have been to no avail, so every month they threaten to cancel my platinum card and I call them again.

 

The last few posts are definitely thread drift. 🙂

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

My most recently issued credit cards replacing those that have expired have chips.  I use them; no pin required.  Is there something with these cards that I am missing by having no pin?  

 

There are some instances when you will need pin along with your credit card.  I honestly think this is much to do about nothing as it simply is not that big a deal.  It apparently is not a uniform requirement.  I've used credit cards at train stations in Switzerland and Italy without any need for a PIN. I've used the card at the one and only gaso station I've been to in Europe, but to be clear, there was a person behind the counter.  That makes a huge difference.    

 

I've also encountered places that required a PIN, but not that many.  I simply used the travel debit card.   In fact, I use the debit card for those kinds of purchases more than I use a credit card.    Anyone who wants a PIN for their US issued credit card,  should ask for it.  Most credit card companies will provide a PIN so the credit card can be used at ATMs.  I would recommend against this, even for travel.  Instead, we set up a separate travel account with its own debit card (our "travel" debit card).  We control the amount in that account and thereby control our exposure should the card & PIN be stolen.    

[navybankerteacher]

24 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

... I've used credit cards at train stations in Switzerland and Italy without any need for a PIN. I've used the card at the one and only gaso station I've been to in Europe, but to be clear, there was a person behind the counter.  That makes a huge difference.    

 

..

There are many unmanned gas stations in Europe - and without a PIN you get no gas.

 

Also at an unmanned ticket kiosk - without a PIN you get no ticket.

 

And number of smaller restaurants require a PIN to activate your chip card.

 

The more you travel, the more you will experience the necessity of a chip and PIN card.

[ldubs]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

There are many unmanned gas stations in Europe - and without a PIN you get no gas.

 

Also at an unmanned ticket kiosk - without a PIN you get no ticket.

 

And number of smaller restaurants require a PIN to activate your chip card.

 

The more you travel, the more you will experience the necessity of a chip and PIN card.

 

Sorry my friend but I'll go by my personal experience based on actual travel in Europe.  I never said PINs were never required.   I will say they are certainly far from universally required.  This is not a big issue for anyone with any sense.  And, if you have still not figured it out and you are that concerned, you can certainly get a US issued pin & chip card.  

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Yes just about every card in the US has a chip.  But how it is used is another thingt. Chip & PIN is NOT Chip & Sig.  the very large part of US Credit Cards are C&S still.  At my old hotel, for every 100fc Credit cards, maybe 1 was C&P.  Debit cards are another thing.  

The Navy FCU gives C&P cards.  Chase has some C&P.   I'm up for my AMEX Plat renewal in Feb - they said no C&P yet.  

 

I agree with you they are two different methods.  I'm betting your credit card company will add a pin to your existing credit card if you want it.  I could do that with my Amex.  It isn't the same as a C&P card and  I wouldn't.  But the choice is there for folks who want to access ATMs using the credit card -- here and overseas.   

[navybankerteacher]

13 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Sorry my friend but I'll go by my personal experience based on actual travel in Europe.  I never said PINs were never required.   I will say they are certainly far from universally required.  This is not a big issue for anyone with any sense.  And, if you have still not figured it out and you are that concerned, you can certainly get a US issued pin & chip card.  

In most cases you have to pay to get a chip and PIN credit card from a US issuer, and a majority of US holders prefer free credit cards.  Perhaps your personal experience traveling in Europe has not included buying gas at an unmanned gas station, buying a ticket at a kiosk., or a meal at a restaurant which only accepts chip and PIN cards.
 

Of course they are not universally required - but they are required in enough situations to make having one very handy.

 

The fact is: virtually all US credit cards now have chips - but very few of them are chip and PIN.  Assuring uninformed people on these boards that there are not real differences is not helpful.

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

In most cases you have to pay to get a chip and PIN credit card from a US issuer, and a majority of US holders prefer free credit cards.  Perhaps your personal experience traveling in Europe has not included buying gas at an unmanned gas station, buying a ticket at a kiosk., or a meal at a restaurant which only accepts chip and PIN cards.
 

Of course they are not universally required - but they are required in enough situations to make having one very handy.

 

The fact is: virtually all US credit cards now have chips - but very few of them are chip and PIN.  Assuring uninformed people on these boards that there are not real differences is not helpful.

 

I would not pay for a chip & pin card.  I mentioned it because you seem to be overly concerned about traveling without one.  

 

I already said I have not been to an unmanned gaso station.  Yes, I have been to unmanned ticket kiosks and didn't need a pin.  Last time I needed a pin at a restnt was at least 10 years ago but I'm sure they are out there.   And, I have already commented about an alternative to using a credit card should a pin be required.   I never said there were not real differences.  What I said is having a chip&pin card is far from essential for travel in Europe.  I base that on personal experiences which I feel is better than what I read on the internet.