Shareholder Benefit

[kenzie]

1 hour ago, The Traveling Man said:

@complawyer, I agree that $100 or so ought not put a big dent in the budget of anyone who can afford a cruise.  On the other hand, I've met some fellow cruisers who really did seem to be stretching themselves to the limit and needed to watch every dime.  I also understand the position of those who really, really, want to receive the full value for their money, to get every last ounce of whatever it is that they have paid for.  I think the issue that you and @aubryc1988 have raised, about exacting retribution against those who had no hand in shortchanging them, is on point.  It leads us to the question, though, "does NCL actually share those gratuities with the staff, or is that simply a way to increase the total amount a passenger pays without raising the stated fare?"  If we assume that NCL actually does share the gratuities, then absolutely it would be unfair to withhold gratuities in a fit of pique for not receiving your shareholder benefit.  I'm going to go out on a limb, however, and say that if kenzie (or anyone else, for that matter) truly believes that the gratuities do not filter down to the staff, then I can understand why frustration over not receiving the OBC could tempt them to withhold gratuities.  I still don't think it's the best course, of course.  On a couple of cruises, our shareholder OBC was omitted from our account.  We spent time at the Guest Services Desk, asking them to email the Miami office to straighten things out.  It usually took a couple of days and several emails and/or phone calls, but eventually we always got our shareholder reimbursement by the end of the cruise.  It never really occurred to me to use the missing OBC as an excuse to shortchange the staff on the gratuities.  I'm just saying that I can understand how the frustration might lead someone else to consider it.

Firstly, stop getting your knickers in a twist -if you read my earlier posts I had the OBC added to my cruises, but really do not give a hoots what any of you think re should I wish to reduce grats or not-that is my prerogative, however I actually believe Travelling man hit the nail on the head, I do not believe for one single minute that the staff actually get less if you reduce the grats, I believe NCL and other cruise lines just use it as an excuse to get cruisers to pay more and they pay less taxes. NOTE TO AUBREYC1988- no I do not reduce grats at a whim but would should I get bad service, then maybe I would, and it’s none of your business so get off your high horse. 

[The Traveling Man]

29 minutes ago, kenzie said:

Firstly, stop getting your knickers in a twist -if you read my earlier posts I had the OBC added to my cruises, but really do not give a hoots what any of you think re should I wish to reduce grats or not-that is my prerogative, however I actually believe Travelling man hit the nail on the head, I do not believe for one single minute that the staff actually get less if you reduce the grats, I believe NCL and other cruise lines just use it as an excuse to get cruisers to pay more and they pay less taxes. NOTE TO AUBREYC1988- no I do not reduce grats at a whim but would should I get bad service, then maybe I would, and it’s none of your business so get off your high horse. 

Well that really is the crux of the issue, isn't it.  Do the staff actually receive the gratuities.  If a passenger asks that the gratuities be removed from their account, do staff members receive less money in their next paycheck.  If a passenger asks that additional gratuities be charged to their account, does that money filter down to the staff, and do they see more in their next week's pay.  Kenzie has opined that they do not.  Complawyer has averred that they do.  I'm on the fence.  I'd like to think that NCL actually does distribute the tips, but I'm not  sure.  If they do, then it would be grossly unfair to penalize your waiters, stewards, etc. because someone at the Miami office failed to get you the money you were owed.  On the other hand, all of your cruise expenses (except for actual cash that you place in a crew member's hand) get paid to NCL, usually via your credit card.  If NCL is simply putting all that money into one pile, then promising to reward you with a certain level of entertainment or holiday enjoyment, the concept of getting all you paid for comes into play.  If they short you some OBC that you would have used to reduce the cost of a shore excursion, for example, then there's a case to be made for trying to find a way to balance the ledger.  If you can't convince the Guest Services folks to get the Miami office to cough up the hundred bucks that they promised you, maybe finding a way to cut your costs by $100 could seem reasonable - BUT NOT IF IT ACTUALLY COMES OUT OF THE PAY OF SOMEONE WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LOSS.

Edited February 10, 2022 by The Traveling Man

[complawyer]

kenzie, dont worry about my knickers, they are none of your concern., twisted or otherwise! i already figured out (as posted) that you wouldnt give a d**m what anybody thought about you and reducing the gratuities. 

 

youre right it's no one else's business how you spend your money, or if you tip at all.

 

all im saying is your post and threat to lower the gratuities strikes me as being cheap and/or petty, especially for the minimal amount of  money you are complaining about.

if  you take a shore excursion through the ship, do you not tip the tour guide and the bus driver, or do you take the position that youve already paid for the excursion, no need to add any more money

 

me. i'll continue to tip any one that serves me on the cruise, regardless of whether or not they share in the total and i'm sure the total at the end will exceed $100. 

 

and traveling man, i dont know if the crew shares in the  gratuities or not, i really havent given it much thought. if ncl doesnt distribute them equally, shame on them.

 

again, personally, i tip for services rendered, regardless of where on the ship i happen to be or who is providing the service.

 

obviously good old kenzie has never heard of the "las vegas handshake"  and after many cruises and travels in general, i find in most places throughout the world  "si habla $20 bill"

 

i only hope i never find you sitting next to my table at a specialty restaurant or after the end of the cruise if youre in a suite or haven

[mking8288]

Back on topic 😉 - received email followup and also updated amenity confirmation - from 

Resolution Desk Specialist, Guest Services.  Originally submitted the request and assigned case # about 10 days ago, was expecting to get back within 24 hours.  Took a followup email to shareholderbenefit @ ncl dot com to nudge them again yesterday - acknowledged prompty & a new case # - completed this morning.  All is good with non-refundable OBC issued for upcoming 7 nighters, allocated 50/50 to Guest #1 and #2. 

[oteixeira]

I just wanted to chime in with a side note on this whole topic.  I am guest 4 on my reservation, and applied for the shareholder benefit.  it was distributed to guest 1 and 2, instead of me.  When I called and spoke to them, they said there is "back line documentation" that this is the way it now has to be done.  My issue with this, is on the form from NCLH (for all three lines), it clearly states under the spot for your printed name (Owner of the 100 shares will receive the onboard credit).  Not true.  Anyway, I am sure my friends and I can work it out, but just wanted to let folks know that this is the latest guidance that they are going with.

[The Traveling Man]

28 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I just wanted to chime in with a side note on this whole topic.  I am guest 4 on my reservation, and applied for the shareholder benefit.  it was distributed to guest 1 and 2, instead of me.  When I called and spoke to them, they said there is "back line documentation" that this is the way it now has to be done.  My issue with this, is on the form from NCLH (for all three lines), it clearly states under the spot for your printed name (Owner of the 100 shares will receive the onboard credit).  Not true.  Anyway, I am sure my friends and I can work it out, but just wanted to let folks know that this is the latest guidance that they are going with.

It should be possible for you and your friends to have NCL set up your onboard account so that one person is responsible for all expenses incurred by each person on the reservation OR so that each person will have a separate onboard account.  That may help you with sorting out the credits and debits for each person on the reservation.

[herbanrenewal]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:03 PM, shof515 said:

FINALLY!!!..I finally got a respond from my follow up i sent on February 3. i now have the onboard credit. kinda odd how it taken almost 2 weeks

I am waiting for obc that i applied for January28. I've emailed  twice and other than acknowledgement of receiving it, I have had no emails or confirmation. My question - when you look at your reservation where will this obc show up? On my vacation summary "reservation at a glance" I see onboard spending money - I'm not sure if this is the $100 that came with our package, or if this might be the obc

shareholder credit.

[julig22]

8 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

I am waiting for obc that i applied for January28. I've emailed  twice and other than acknowledgement of receiving it, I have had no emails or confirmation. My question - when you look at your reservation where will this obc show up? On my vacation summary "reservation at a glance" I see onboard spending money - I'm not sure if this is the $100 that came with our package, or if this might be the obc

shareholder credit.

It could be either - in the past when I've had both, not everything showed on the summary.  Only way I  know for sure is if NCLHBENE shows up on your invoice.  However, if you go to the "print vacation summary" link on your summary page, it should tell you the total OBC you have.

But you should also get a confirmation letter.  I had to ask my PCC to check on it, since I was sailing soon.  If you booked on your own, you could probably do a chat and ask if the code is on your reservation.

[broncofan99]

Received notice today my obc request is approved; it took 12 days and a follow up request. FYI.  

[RocketMan275]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:05 PM, The Traveling Man said:

Well that really is the crux of the issue, isn't it.  Do the staff actually receive the gratuities.  If a passenger asks that the gratuities be removed from their account, do staff members receive less money in their next paycheck.  

Completely irrelevant.  Suppose a cruise line increased the fare claiming while eliminating the gratuity charge.  Suppose further that the cruise line claimed  this increase was to increase the crew pay.  How would you know if that were true or not?

 

Also, for the record. I received notification that my stockholder benefit OBC was added to my next cruise on 12 Feb.  I submitted the request on 6 Feb.

[The Traveling Man]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Completely irrelevant.  Suppose a cruise line increased the fare claiming while eliminating the gratuity charge.  Suppose further that the cruise line claimed  this increase was to increase the crew pay.  How would you know if that were true or not?

 

Also, for the record. I received notification that my stockholder benefit OBC was added to my next cruise on 12 Feb.  I submitted the request on 6 Feb.

How is this not relevant?  If you dine at a restaurant in your home town, you have the option of adding the waiter's tip to your credit card bill or simply paying the stated amount for food and beverages with your card, while leaving cash for your waiter's tip.  If you are confident that the restaurant actually shares the tip with the staff, then there's no reason not to add the tip to your charge card.  If you believe, however, that the restaurant simply adds those "tips" to their daily receipts and pays the staff the same amount each week, regardless of how much comes in as "tips," then you have a very real incentive to bypass the restaurant manager and give your tip directly to your waiter in cash.  It is absolutely relevant.  There are several posters on this thread who seem convinced that NCL actually passes on those tips, while at least one person is equally convinced that they do not.  I'm still on the fence, but would like to know for certain.

[RocketMan275]

9 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

There are several posters on this thread who seem convinced that NCL actually passes on those tips, while at least one person is equally convinced that they do not.  I'm still on the fence, but would like to know for certain.

It's irrelevant because there is no way you can ever know whether NCL passes the gratuities on or not.  Just like you'll never know if NCL increased the fare and claimed the increase went to pay crew wages.  Those who think NCL doesn't pass on the gratuities are looking for justification for removing gratuities from their fare.  

[The Traveling Man]

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's irrelevant because there is no way you can ever know whether NCL passes the gratuities on or not.  Just like you'll never know if NCL increased the fare and claimed the increase went to pay crew wages.  Those who think NCL doesn't pass on the gratuities are looking for justification for removing gratuities from their fare.  

Actually, I can think of one sure-fire way to know if the gratuities are being passed on.  Simply ask your stateroom attendant if he or she is looking forward to the time when ships start sailing at full capacity again.  Recently they have sailed at 50%, 30%, or even lower passenger levels.  Although NCL has been able to reduce their staffing levels a bit, they can't even come close to maintaining the usual ratio of passengers to crew.  One CC thread recently mentioned one of the mega ships, the Bliss as I recall, sailing with just 800 passengers but with 1400 crew.  Well, if a 4000 passenger ship is sailing at just 20% capacity, that means that there's just 20% as many tip dollars to spread around.  Even if NCL somehow managed to offload half of their crew, that still means that those crew members who remained would receive significantly less in tips for the weeks that the ship sailed with so few passengers.  Now, asking someone how much money they made last week (or last month) may be a touchy subject, maybe even impolite.  You may not be able to get any of them to talk about it.  But just ask them and see if a sparkle comes to their eyes when they dream of returning to full ships.  If they indicate that it doesn't really matter, because the money they make will stay the same, then you have your answer.

[complawyer]

i don't believe any of us will ever know how ncl dispenses the accumulated daily gratuities. one can only hope they are true to their word and dispense the money equally among the staff.

 

that being said, some of these posts were in response top "good old kenzie" pitching a fit because she hasn't gotten her overwhelming $100 obc as a shareholder and threatened to have the gratuities removed, thereby harming the entire staff. 

 

regardless, i personally will tip  extra to anyone providing me a service, bartender, black jack dealer, waiter in any and all restaurants etc, even with the knowledge that the dsc will appear on my bill at the end of the cruise.'

 

even if the daily gratuities are fairly and equally distributed, these folks don't make a whole lot of money, while we're all spending 1000"s of dollars for a cruise vacation.

 

ponying  up a little more will only help, and i believe if you tip extra and the staff gets to know you, they will go the extra mile for you. in the alternative, no one will chastise  you if you just stick with the dsc.

traveling man, your comments are always well reasoned, thought out and plainly expressed.

 

so it's time to get off the fence. i'd hate to have you get splinters in an inappropriate spot!

 

 

i applaud the vegas handshake

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

Actually, I can think of one sure-fire way to know if the gratuities are being passed on.  Simply ask your stateroom attendant if he or she is looking forward to the time when ships start sailing at full capacity again.  ...  But just ask them and see if a sparkle comes to their eyes when they dream of returning to full ships.  If they indicate that it doesn't really matter, because the money they make will stay the same, then you have your answer.

You're whole argument relies upon what the crew would tell you.  I would be very reluctant to rely upon statements made by the crew concerning gratuities.  The crew will tell you what they think will make you increase their in-cash gratuities.  If they think you will tip more if they indicate they don't get all the money, then there is a very good chance they will tell you that they don't.  And, in some cases, it's been reported that the crew is forbidden to discuss gratuities.

 

But the bottom line is this.   Give the crew members your cash directly and it won't matter what the cruise line does.

[The Traveling Man]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

 

But the bottom line is this.   Give the crew members your cash directly and it won't matter what the cruise line does.

Precisely the point I've been trying to make.  Thank you.

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

Precisely the point I've been trying to make.  Thank you.

Fine, but don't forget that if you remove the gratuities charged by the cruise line to your account, the crew may have to turn the cash you provide directly back to the cruise line.

[aubreyc1988]

On 2/10/2022 at 2:08 PM, The Traveling Man said:

@complawyer, I agree that $100 or so ought not put a big dent in the budget of anyone who can afford a cruise.  On the other hand, I've met some fellow cruisers who really did seem to be stretching themselves to the limit and needed to watch every dime.  I also understand the position of those who really, really, want to receive the full value for their money, to get every last ounce of whatever it is that they have paid for.  I think the issue that you and @aubryc1988 have raised, about exacting retribution against those who had no hand in shortchanging them, is on point.  It leads us to the question, though, "does NCL actually share those gratuities with the staff, or is that simply a way to increase the total amount a passenger pays without raising the stated fare?"  If we assume that NCL actually does share the gratuities, then absolutely it would be unfair to withhold gratuities in a fit of pique for not receiving your shareholder benefit.  I'm going to go out on a limb, however, and say that if kenzie (or anyone else, for that matter) truly believes that the gratuities do not filter down to the staff, then I can understand why frustration over not receiving the OBC could tempt them to withhold gratuities.  I still don't think it's the best course, of course.  On a couple of cruises, our shareholder OBC was omitted from our account.  We spent time at the Guest Services Desk, asking them to email the Miami office to straighten things out.  It usually took a couple of days and several emails and/or phone calls, but eventually we always got our shareholder reimbursement by the end of the cruise.  It never really occurred to me to use the missing OBC as an excuse to shortchange the staff on the gratuities.  I'm just saying that I can understand how the frustration might lead someone else to consider it.

 

I have that internal debate about whether anyone that I tip electronically sees the tip or not ALL THE TIME. At the end of the day, I have to just do the best I can and hope that the companies have a shred of honesty in them. I assume the crew sees some of it or gets compensated enough otherwise they wouldn't renew contracts. I keep my autogratuties on and then tip some well deserving staff in cash at end of the cruise.  At the end of the day, I can only go off of what I know, and what I know is that NCL says the certain crew share the DSC.  Whether or not that is true, I can't say for sure. Tipping is so personal, I never usually get into anyone about the amount they tip, but the "Retribution to withhold tips" is like those people who put 10.00 out on the table at a restaurant and take away 1.00 at a time when something isn't to their liking. Just so freaking ridiculous and wrong. And if money is tight for me on a cruise for some reason, I personally wouldn't go on ANY excursions and stay at a motel 6 pre cruise if that meant I could keep my auto gratuities on. 

[The Traveling Man]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Fine, but don't forget that if you remove the gratuities charged by the cruise line to your account, the crew may have to turn the cash you provide directly back to the cruise line.

Kinda defeats the whole purpose of tipping directly, doesn't it?

[The Traveling Man]

14 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

 

I have that internal debate about whether anyone that I tip electronically sees the tip or not ALL THE TIME. At the end of the day, I have to just do the best I can and hope that the companies have a shred of honesty in them. I assume the crew sees some of it or gets compensated enough otherwise they wouldn't renew contracts. I keep my autogratuties on and then tip some well deserving staff in cash at end of the cruise.  At the end of the day, I can only go off of what I know, and what I know is that NCL says the certain crew share the DSC.  Whether or not that is true, I can't say for sure. Tipping is so personal, I never usually get into anyone about the amount they tip, but the "Retribution to withhold tips" is like those people who put 10.00 out on the table at a restaurant and take away 1.00 at a time when something isn't to their liking. Just so freaking ridiculous and wrong. And if money is tight for me on a cruise for some reason, I personally wouldn't go on ANY excursions and stay at a motel 6 pre cruise if that meant I could keep my auto gratuities on. 

I think you have the perfect take on this subject, and it's mighty close to what I have been trying to say, though obviously not very well.  I think this entire subject arose because one poster stated affirmatively that he had no faith that NCL actually passes on the DSC as tips to crew members.  I don't know - maybe yes, maybe no, maybe sort of.  A typical week-long cruise for two passengers generates about $250 in gratuities paid as DSC.  If someone asks the Guests Services Department to refund the DSC, it seems fair that those pax ought to hand out at least that $250, or maybe more, in cash tips their cabin steward, waiters, bartenders, etc.  I think it mostly boils down to whether you think NCL really is passing along those DSC tips or not.  It's a lot easier just to have NCL take it off the top than to carry around a wad of cash, of course, but for those like a previous poster who think that NCL is double-dealing, it might just make some sense to tip only with cash.

[aubreyc1988]

Back to the shareholder topic, my husband is a shareholder and submitted the form on Friday for our March 5th 2022 sailing. I will report back whenever it is added 🙂

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, The Traveling Man said:

Kinda defeats the whole purpose of tipping directly, doesn't it?

What do you see as the purpose of tipping directly?

 

[Cruiseandgamble]

1 hour ago, aubreyc1988 said:

Back to the shareholder topic, my husband is a shareholder and submitted the form on Friday for our March 5th 2022 sailing. I will report back whenever it is added 🙂

I submitted 4 requests yesterday (1 cruise in March, 2 in June, 1 in July).  All 4 are CAS bookings, just me in the cabin.  Received emails with updated amenity confirmations for the last two cruises chronologically only but all 4 vacation summaries show the onboard spending.  Full $100 too!

[The Traveling Man]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

What do you see as the purpose of tipping directly?

 

The purpose of tipping directly, of course, is ensuring that the person you intend to tip actually receives the tip.  As stated by several others on this thread, there always exists the possibility that when you include a tip with the payment of your bill, as when paying by credit card, the manager or owner of that business could possibly withhold that tip from the person for whom you intended it.  That is much less likely to happen if you physically place cash in the hands of your waiter, bartender, etc.  It appears to be the general consensus of those posting on this thread that NCL does in fact distribute the Daily Service Charge equitably as a tip to members of the service staff on board their ships.  There is at least one poster on this thread, however, and perhaps others, who have expressed concern that such is not the case. 

[The Traveling Man]

23 hours ago, complawyer said:

i don't believe any of us will ever know how ncl dispenses the accumulated daily gratuities. one can only hope they are true to their word and dispense the money equally among the staff.

 

 

That's the approach I always have taken.  It certainly is more convenient just to pay a reasonable amount to NCl for gratuities and let them divide it among staff and crew.  It wasn't until I started reading the comments on Cruise Critic, this thread as well as several previous ones on tipping, that I got to thinking about asking NCL to delete the Daily Service Charge from my account and let me make up for it by tipping in cash.  There are at least two problems with that approach.  For one, there are a lot of behind-the-scenes workers who deserve to be tipped.  Passengers normally would never see those crew members, so they would only receive a tip if your waiter, bartender, etc., were to share their tips with them.  The second issue is having to carry a wad of bills.  The Daily Service Charges for a typical week-long cruise for two persons comes to about $250.  Carrying enough ones, fives, and tens to cover that much, or perhaps a little more, would make for a bulging wallet or money clip.