Baltic cruises

[tring]

Strange that the above mentioned statement does not appear to be on the P&O website of FB page as yet - or if it is, it is not prominent enough for me to have found it.

 

[jeanlyon]

2 minutes ago, tring said:

Strange that the above mentioned statement does not appear to be on the P&O website of FB page as yet - or if it is, it is not prominent enough for me to have found it.

 

It's right at the top of the home page.

[tring]

13 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

It's right at the top of the home page.

 

Nothing at all appearing on my screen for the P&O website.  Are you talking about the up to date statement from Carnival Corporation last night, or the one from last Thursday which was copied and pasted by emam (#77) and is now out of date?  Last Thursday's statement is posted on the P&O fb page, but again I see no mention of the up to date Carnival Corporation statement.

 

Can you please give me a link to what you are seeing?  I am wondering if my saved link and a fresh search which I have tried is in some way corrupted by cookies - which I always do my best to avoid. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by tring

[Fionboard]

Give them a chance! It takes time to arrange changes to itinerary and as my Baltic cruise is not until May I am just waiting to see what ports are substituted for St P. Hoping it won't be Stockholm and Copenhagen as been there too many times!

[tring]

1 minute ago, Fionboard said:

Give them a chance! It takes time to arrange changes to itinerary and as my Baltic cruise is not until May I am just waiting to see what ports are substituted for St P. Hoping it won't be Stockholm and Copenhagen as been there too many times!

 

I am not talking about changes to the itineraries.  If you only read the posts from this page (page 4) you will see that.  If you go as far back as the beginning of today, you will see a bit more detail.

[jeanlyon]

Is this what you mean?

 

"In light of the current situation evolving in Ukraine we continue to monitor this situation very closely and we will amend itineraries as necessary following guidance. Our top priority is compliance, environmental protection and the health, safety and well-being of our guests, crew members, shoreside employees and the people in the places we touch and we will advise guests of any changes accordingly as soon as possible.

[Denarius]

53 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I can't see them calling at Estonia either.  Far too close for comfort.  And there is an extra little piece of Russia between Estonia and Poland. 

It is between Lithuania and Poland. Latvia is between Lithuania and Estonia.

[tring]

24 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Is this what you mean?

 

"In light of the current situation evolving in Ukraine we continue to monitor this situation very closely and we will amend itineraries as necessary following guidance. Our top priority is compliance, environmental protection and the health, safety and well-being of our guests, crew members, shoreside employees and the people in the places we touch and we will advise guests of any changes accordingly as soon as possible.

 

No, but that is the statement that was put on the P&O fb page last Thursday and is similar to the emails sent out to customers at that time.  No matter we have the information from here.   

 

There is no point me re posting but l, but I did that in #78, also Molecrochip has made a comment on the up to date statement early this morning, but he did not add a link of any kind.

 

As an additional point which may affect some people.  I have seen a mention on the Ports of call section that anyone who has paid money to a private tour agent in Russia may be better asking for a refund now as the sanctions may stop them being able to refund. 

 

I know that the Ukrainian people are by far the worst hit by this and I really do feel for them along with others who will be disadvantaged because of the situation.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by tring

[jeanlyon]

Sorry, misunderstood.

[Fionboard]

Yes, if you have paid any money into Russia try to get it back quickly - but good luck with that. Hope insurance will cover!

[jeanlyon]

Just heard that Turkey has agreed to block the Bhospherus and the Dardenelles, so nobody will be going to the Black Sea either.

[twotravellersLondon]

15 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Just heard that Turkey has agreed to block the Bhospherus and the Dardenelles, so nobody will be going to the Black Sea either.

 

My understanding is that the only ships that Turkey are blocking are Russian warships.

 

Perhaps we need to wait ad see the details.

[jeanlyon]

Even so, no cruise ship would take a chance in the Black Sea.

[davecttr]

Friends son and daughter in Law have just flown to Estonia so she can be close to her family during the upcoming birth, of course the babe will have dual nationality. Apparently the medical service there is as good if not better than here.

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

I can't see them calling at Estonia either.  Far too close for comfort.  And there is an extra little piece of Russia between Estonia and Poland. 

I would imagine that the tourism industry in Tallin would be very upset if the cruise lines took that view.

[jeanlyon]

I'm sure they would, but can't see any cruise ships going there.

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

I'm sure they would, but can't see any cruise ships going there.

 

5 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

I can't see them calling at Estonia either.  Far too close for comfort.  And there is an extra little piece of Russia between Estonia and Poland. 

 

That may very well turn out to be true but... 

 

Individual captains of "Cruise ships" very seldom take chances or make decisions without the express permission of their owners/operators HQ except in an immediate emergency. Decisions on itinerary are almost always made at CEO and Board level.

 

Decisions are only be made by individual cruise line Boards in light of detailed discussions with those who ensure their ships, the Cruise Line International Association, relevant Government Departments, International Marine organisations... and with those who insure their businesses interests, their own legal advisors and others.

 

Cruise lines have to balance the safety of their; passengers, crew, ships and their reputations with the economic and reputational cost of making a material change that may disappoint some passengers, result uninsured loss of revenue and good-will, claims for compensation and legal action.

 

We need to look at things in a sensible perspective. For instance; Estonia is a member of the EU and a member of NATO. It shares it's military base at Tapa with NATO personnel. There is absolutely no reason, as things stand, to avoid it.

 

The Turkish Black Sea ports are hundreds of nautical miles away from the Ukraine. 

 

And that; "little bit of Russia", mentioned in a previous post (Kaliningrad)...( between Poland and Lithuania)  is very nearly the size of Devon, it has a population of about  1,000,000 people, a considerable military and strategic role and very a significant naval base... think Devonport! So should we abandon all thoughts of visiting Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Check Republic, Austria, Finland, Germany Sweden as well? Personally, I don't think so... but if things change significantly, I would take informed advice.

 

Anyone who has concerns has the choice not to cruise. Anyone else... "takes their choice and pays their money."

[zap99]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I would imagine that the tourism industry in Tallin would be very upset if the cruise lines took that view.

If cruise ships stop calling at friendly nations like the Baltic States, who wins ,apart from you know who. If our cruise pops in there, fine. No gripe with them. It's a bit like last year's posts. Those that will and those that won't.

[tring]

14 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

That may very well turn out to be true but... 

 

Individual captains of "Cruise ships" very seldom take chances or make decisions without the express permission of their owners/operators HQ except in an immediate emergency. Decisions on itinerary are almost always made at CEO and Board level.

 

Decisions are only be made by individual cruise line Boards in light of detailed discussions with those who ensure their ships, the Cruise Line International Association, relevant Government Departments, International Marine organisations... and with those who insure their businesses interests, their own legal advisors and others.

 

Cruise lines have to balance the safety of their; passengers, crew, ships and their reputations with the economic and reputational cost of making a material change that may disappoint some passengers, result uninsured loss of revenue and good-will, claims for compensation and legal action.

 

We need to look at things in a sensible perspective. For instance; Estonia is a member of the EU and a member of NATO. It shares it's military base at Tapa with NATO personnel. There is absolutely no reason, as things stand, to avoid it.

 

The Turkish Black Sea ports are hundreds of nautical miles away from the Ukraine. 

 

And that; "little bit of Russia", mentioned in a previous post (Kaliningrad)...( between Poland and Lithuania)  is very nearly the size of Devon, it has a population of about  1,000,000 people, a considerable military and strategic role and very a significant naval base... think Devonport! So should we abandon all thoughts of visiting Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Check Republic, Austria, Finland, Germany Sweden as well? Personally, I don't think so... but if things change significantly, I would take informed advice.

 

Anyone who has concerns has the choice not to cruise. Anyone else... "takes their choice and pays their money."

 

I agree there will be many considerations, but for Carnival I do believe in there will be a different decision for the US based lines.  As I in have mentioned previously a fair number of US passengers have already cancelled upcoming Baltic cruises for this year because they mainly wanted to go to SPB and they are hoping a cruise including that can be repeated another year, (sadly, they do not understand the appeal of many other ports there).  That has also been the case for some UK passengers, but no where near as many.  Of course as time goes on though, the chance of SPB being included in future years is diminishing rapidly.  Hence, I think more US lines will remove the whole Baltic than will UK lines, as what has happened in the past for other countries, like Egypt, for instance.

 

I can see there being a certain rationalisation of Baltic cruises, with some re-routed, with that including more US brand sailings, though of course many sail from within The Baltic, (Copenhagen, Stockholm), so will also take Europeans, who will be less likely to cancel entirely.  Must admit, if I was needing to arrange a non refundable flight to meet up with a Baltic cruise for this year, I would not be doing that at present!

 

I am still hopeful our (modified) May cruise goes ahead though, as it does appear people feeling SPB was essential have already taken advantage of P&O's free transfers before final payment date, due to expectation have been around for a while.  Yet more posters have said they have paid their balances. 

 

In reality that decision obviously has more to do with how things continue to develop and is why I am no longer expecting a very speedy decision from Carnival regards itineraries, though SPB may be replaced this week, in fact I suspect a plan B had been on place for some time.  I would not like to take a gamble on anything though.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

I agree there will be many considerations, but for Carnival I do believe in there will be a different decision for the US based lines.  As I in have mentioned previously a fair number of US passengers have already cancelled upcoming Baltic cruises for this year because they mainly wanted to go to SPB and they are hoping a cruise including that can be repeated another year, (sadly, they do not understand the appeal of many other ports there).  That has also been the case for some UK passengers, but no where near as many.  Of course as time goes on though, the chance of SPB being included in future years is diminishing rapidly.  Hence, I think more US lines will remove the whole Baltic than will UK lines, as what has happened in the past for other countries, like Egypt, for instance.

 

I can see there being a certain rationalisation of Baltic cruises, with some re-routed, with that including more US brand sailings, though of course many sail from within The Baltic, (Copenhagen, Stockholm), so will also take Europeans, who will be less likely to cancel entirely.  Must admit, if I was needing to arrange a non refundable flight to meet up with a Baltic cruise for this year, I would not be doing that at present!

 

I am still hopeful our (modified) May cruise goes ahead though, as it does appear people feeling SPB was essential have already taken advantage of P&O's free transfers before final payment date, due to expectation have been around for a while.  Yet more posters have said they have paid their balances. 

 

In reality that decision obviously has more to do with how things continue to develop and is why I am no longer expecting a very speedy decision from Carnival regards itineraries, though SPB may be replaced this week, in fact I suspect a plan B had been on place for some time.  I would not like to take a gamble on anything though.

 

I tend to agree that the American lines will probably reroute away from the Baltic completely given SPB is the one that everyone goes for. Where cruises start in the Baltic, these will probably go ahead as they then generally sail West.

 

I think its the European lines which will have the more difficult decision.

 

I also agree that we may get a direction of travel later this week, but the company will need to see how things develop before making a final call.

[Denarius]

16 hours ago, zap99 said:

If cruise ships stop calling at friendly nations like the Baltic States, who wins ,apart from you know who. If our cruise pops in there, fine. No gripe with them. It's a bit like last year's posts. Those that will and those that won't.

Agree entirely. We need to support our friends in the Baltic republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and depriving them of their tourist income is not the way to do it. I am due to sail to the Baltic this Summer with Saga, visiting Tallin with an overnight stay in Riga and will be there if they are. Chose this cruise specifically because it did not visit St Petersburg.

[twotravellersLondon]

2 hours ago, tring said:

 

I agree there will be many considerations, but for Carnival I do believe in there will be a different decision for the US based lines.  As I in have mentioned previously a fair number of US passengers have already cancelled upcoming Baltic cruises for this year because they mainly wanted to go to SPB and they are hoping a cruise including that can be repeated another year, (sadly, they do not understand the appeal of many other ports there).  That has also been the case for some UK passengers, but no where near as many.  Of course as time goes on though, the chance of SPB being included in future years is diminishing rapidly.  Hence, I think more US lines will remove the whole Baltic than will UK lines, as what has happened in the past for other countries, like Egypt, for instance.

 

I can see there being a certain rationalisation of Baltic cruises, with some re-routed, with that including more US brand sailings, though of course many sail from within The Baltic, (Copenhagen, Stockholm), so will also take Europeans, who will be less likely to cancel entirely.  Must admit, if I was needing to arrange a non refundable flight to meet up with a Baltic cruise for this year, I would not be doing that at present!

 

I am still hopeful our (modified) May cruise goes ahead though, as it does appear people feeling SPB was essential have already taken advantage of P&O's free transfers before final payment date, due to expectation have been around for a while.  Yet more posters have said they have paid their balances. 

 

In reality that decision obviously has more to do with how things continue to develop and is why I am no longer expecting a very speedy decision from Carnival regards itineraries, though SPB may be replaced this week, in fact I suspect a plan B had been on place for some time.  I would not like to take a gamble on anything though.

 

 

I feel that your comments are absolutely spot on. 

 

The US Government advice is "Do not travel to Russia" (although there are caveats) and it's the case that lots of cruisers from the US will have been focused on the magnificence of some of the Saint Petersburg sites.

 

We've both cruised to Russia and travelled independently there in the past... we think that, whatever the outcome, it may be some time before we or any other tourists can comfortable do that again.

 

We were planning to cruise to St Petersburg next summer season... we have priority booking and were waiting for the itineraries to be published. The whole point was to visit Saint Petersburg again. However these days we find it best to be pragmatic. So, if there's an interesting alternative... then we would be happy to consider it.

 

For instance; FOCLs has changed the 18 May 2022 "Exploring the Baltic and St Petersburg" from Newcastle to simply "Exploring the Baltic." St Petersburg has been removed but Stockholm and Visby have been added instead. That would have appealed to us for next year.

 

Before covid the UK based cruise industry contributed £10 billion a year to our economy and supported 88,000 jobs in our country. It's lost billions in the last couple of years... it now so needs our understanding and our support.

 

Like you, we're now more than prepared to be patient, understanding and flexible enough give cruise lines time and space to sort out problems that are none of their making. 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Denarius said:

Agree entirely. We need to support our friends in the Baltic republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and depriving them of their tourist income is not the way to do it. I am due to sail to the Baltic this Summer with Saga, visiting Tallin with an overnight stay in Riga and will be there if they are. Chose this cruise specifically because it did not visit St Petersburg.

It is interesting that there appear to be a lot more people like me that would be very happy for more Baltic cruises to miss SPB. Having been twice it is now a waste of 2 days that could be better spent visiting other ports.

[jaydee6969]

We are the other way.  August would have been our first Baltic cruise and visit to SPB.

However, we are waiting to see what alternative itinerary is offered.

Having not been to any of the other ports anyway, still an adventure, just not what we planned.

Return to SPB in the future.

(I also have cancelled my P&O excursion in SPB for a refund)

[Britboys]

36 minutes ago, jaydee6969 said:

We are the other way.  August would have been our first Baltic cruise and visit to SPB.

However, we are waiting to see what alternative itinerary is offered.

Having not been to any of the other ports anyway, still an adventure, just not what we planned.

Return to SPB in the future.

(I also have cancelled my P&O excursion in SPB for a refund)

The Baltic Sea is teeming with great ports. Gdansk (Gdynia), Talinn and Riga are wonderfully historic. Copenhagen, Stockholm and Oslo are fabulous cities. There are also very nice, smaller ports like Travemunde and Skagen. A great area to visit even without St Petersburg.