Baltic cruises

[Denarius]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

It is interesting that there appear to be a lot more people like me that would be very happy for more Baltic cruises to miss SPB. Having been twice it is now a waste of 2 days that could be better spent visiting other ports.

I agree. I visited St Petersburg on a P&O cruise a number of years ago and was underwhelmed. Maybe its because I am not interested in museums. On the other hand, I enjoyed other Baltic ports like Tallin & Copenhagen and was happy to visit them again.

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

It is interesting that there appear to be a lot more people like me that would be very happy for more Baltic cruises to miss SPB. Having been twice it is now a waste of 2 days that could be better spent visiting other ports.

Absolutely, we have been on 2 Baltic cruises which both visited SPB and have no real wish to go back there. CMV did hidden Baltic cruises which we were going to take before their demise, they visited some of the smaller ports that were less well known. I am hoping son of CMV; Ambassador will carry on with them once they get their ships up and running.

[Denarius]

6 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Absolutely, we have been on 2 Baltic cruises which both visited SPB and have no real wish to go back there. CMV did hidden Baltic cruises which we were going to take before their demise, they visited some of the smaller ports that were less well known. I am hoping son of CMV; Ambassador will carry on with them once they get their ships up and running.

My Saga cruise visits Skagen, Gdansk, Visby, Stockholm, Kemi, Tallinn, Riga (overnight) and Gothenburg. Have been to Gdansk, Visby and Tallinn but the rest are all new to me.

[tring]

Seems UK are eventually advising against travel to Russia, though lack of flights being the reason given. 

 

I wonder what effect fuel prices will also have on cruise itineraries, with that becoming a more important point now.  It would seem quite reasonable if we share some of the expected, much larger losses, of fuel availability with our European nieghbours as well IMO (if I am understanding that correctly).  The rest of the world must surely continue to come together and share any self imposed pain by the actions they have taken, as well as to take a share in helping the Ukrainian people.  I will be quite happy to travel less and have less heating in the house if needed.  That could well have yet another big impact on the travel industry which is already suffering because of covid.  We would be happy to do more travel by public transport, yet with covid still around that has a limited appeal.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[tring]

Fred does a fair number of Baltic cruises which do not go as far as SPB, though most are relatively short ones (e.g. 10 days), so for us it seems less worth getting to an East coast or southern port along with the required sea days to make those journeys worthwhile.  Our 16 night Aurora cruise was a no brainer because of that.

 

I am sure some will travel on the CMV re-incarnation, though having travelled on the original CMV, it is something we will not be jumping at.  As P&O dispose of their mid sized ships though, I would not say never, since I feel some of the better Baltic ports will not be possible with bigger ships.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[Son of Anarchy]

11 minutes ago, tring said:

Seems UK are eventually advising against travel to Russia, though lack of flights being the reason given. 

 

I wonder what effect fuel prices will also have on cruise itineraries, with that becoming a more important point now.  It would seem quite reasonable if we share some of the expected, much larger losses, of fuel availability with our European nieghbours as well IMO (if I am understanding that correctly).  The rest of the world must surely continue to come together and share any self imposed pain by the actions they have taken, as well as to take a share in helping the Ukrainian people.  I will be quite happy to travel less and have less heating in the house if needed.  That could well have yet another big impact on the travel industry which is already suffering because of covid.  We would be happy to do more travel by public transport, yet with covid still around that has a limited appeal.

 

Just had and update from FCO re Russia.  They are now advising all travel to Russia.

 

"Change made:
The FCDO now advises against all travel to Russia (‘Summary’, ‘Coronavirus’ and ‘Safety and security’ pages)

Time updated:
3:03pm, 28 February 2022"

 

A bit sooner than I expected, but the right way forward.

[twotravellersLondon]

37 minutes ago, tring said:

Seems UK are eventually advising against travel to Russia, though lack of flights being the reason given.

 

24 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Just had and update from FCO re Russia.  They are now advising all travel to Russia.

 

The Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) advising against all travel to the whole of Russia is quite an important change. 

 

It means that cruise line now has no option except to pull St. Petersburg and any other Russian port from their itineraries. If they don’t, they won't be insured, they probably won't be able to obtain FO assistance if need be and there will be little or not recourse to diplomatic services on behalf of ships, crews or passengers.

 

It also means that cruise lines will need to give Russian territorial waters in the Baltic a wide berth.

 

In the Gulf of Gdansk the territorial waters/exclusive economic zone of the Kaliningrad Oblast (between Poland and Lithuania) stretch into the middle of the Baltic Sea... half way to southern Sweden. As Kaliningrad is an important base for the Russian Baltic Fleet and all manner of naval and military technology, I'm sure that the Russians won't welcome cruise ships anywhere near.

 

All cruise ships, indeed all ships, will have to set courses well to the north of that area but that shouldn't be a problem... lots and lots of sea.

[tring]

P&O have been offering what was basically an "on your own" tour in SPB which we had booked for May and had also done in Summer 2019 on Arcadia.  The tour left us with free time in three locations over a full day (7.75 hrs, I think).  There were no restrictions on where we could go in those locations and we whizzed off a fair distance to Puskin's house during our two hour+ stop in Nevsky Prospect, though in practice, I think eveyone else just pottered around locally and perhaps visited a restaurant or bar.  The only difference this year was a price hike to just over £100 pp c.f. less than £50 pp in 2019!

 

We were largely able to get around the city easily as we know it well, having had a river cruise from SPB to Moscow with hotel stays each end in 2018.  That holiday gave us chance to do the main tourist spots (and the ballet) on included excursions, as well as doing other sites (e.g. Faberge, river cruise in SPB and The Kremlin + Armory in Moscow) as far cheaper independent visits as well as the chance to just wander and pop into the odd non touristy church or museum.  The main churches (St Isaac's, Church on Spilled Blood are not consecrated, so are effectively museums).  We will never forget being thrown out of Red Square at midnight when the were looking to set up for an event!  We have been thrown out of many places late at night, but Red Square was quite different 🙂

 

P&O do two complimentary Baltic itineraries on those mid sized ships, so we had very little that was covered by both cruises - basically was just Fredericia and SPB.  We would happily go to any Baltic port we have visited again though, as there was plenty of interest and other places that can be easily visited on public transport.

 

After the events of the past week, we will have no wish to ever go to Russia ever again (even for the Black Sea ports which we have not done), yet I must say that travelling around independently, we found the Russian people extremely helpful and I cannot but help feeling sorry for most of them as well at this early stage, when there are limitations on what individuals can do.  What long term changes are effected remain to be seen, but would need to be very substantial for travel to re-commence from the West IMO and rightly so too.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[tring]

40 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

In the Gulf of Gdansk the territorial waters/exclusive economic zone of the Kaliningrad Oblast (between Poland and Lithuania) stretch into the middle of the Baltic Sea... half way to southern Sweden. As Kaliningrad is an important base for the Russian Baltic Fleet and all manner of naval and military technology, I'm sure that the Russians won't welcome cruise ships anywhere near.

 

All cruise ships, indeed all ships, will have to set courses well to the north of that area but that shouldn't be a problem... lots and lots of sea.

 

That is another reason, (along with discussing a map of the Baltic with DH earlier today), that I can see why Molecrochip mentioned Helsinki as possibly not a likely replacement port a couple of days back, since Finland have had threats from Russia.  Indeed only a relatively narrow strip of Southern Finland would give, not only land access but more territorial waters.  I had assumed that a potential problem with Helsinki as a port would mean our three Swedish ports could also be potentially lost, since Sweden have had the same threats but I can now see now, any risk to those as ports of call, is likely far less than that for Helsinki.

 

At least the current talks have not broken down as yet, so there may be some hope for the relatively near future.

   

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, tring said:

Seems UK are eventually advising against travel to Russia, though lack of flights being the reason given. 

 

I wonder what effect fuel prices will also have on cruise itineraries, with that becoming a more important point now.  It would seem quite reasonable if we share some of the expected, much larger losses, of fuel availability with our European nieghbours as well IMO (if I am understanding that correctly).  The rest of the world must surely continue to come together and share any self imposed pain by the actions they have taken, as well as to take a share in helping the Ukrainian people.  I will be quite happy to travel less and have less heating in the house if needed.  That could well have yet another big impact on the travel industry which is already suffering because of covid.  We would be happy to do more travel by public transport, yet with covid still around that has a limited appeal.

 

I tend to agree that the UK will be under moral pressure to give up some gas supplies, in order to spread the pain throughout europe. There is also the possibility that LNG supplies will be prioritised for home heating supplies, which could hit Iona and maybe even Arvia if the crisis lasts well into 2022.

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

That is another reason, (along with discussing a map of the Baltic with DH earlier today), that I can see why Molecrochip mentioned Helsinki as possibly not a likely replacement port a couple of days back, since Finland have had threats from Russia.  Indeed only a relatively narrow strip of Southern Finland would give, not only land access but more territorial waters.  I had assumed that a potential problem with Helsinki as a port would mean our three Swedish ports could also be potentially lost, since Sweden have had the same threats but I can now see now, any risk to those as ports of call, is likely far less than that for Helsinki.

 

At least the current talks have not broken down as yet, so there may be some hope for the relatively near future.

   

 

I do know that Finns are painfully aware of the loss of the eastern province of Karelia at the end of WW II but a more pertinent reason is the limited cruise ship capacity in Helsinki.

 

In 2019 just before covid Helsinki was coping with over 300 cruise ships a season. The problem is that the old quays including Pakkahuone and Katajanokka can only take ships up to 215 m. That rules out most modern large cruise ships.

 

There's a new cruise quay at Hernesaari. It can take ships up to 360 m but only one at a time.

 

But St Petersburg has a capacity to deal with five to seven cruise ships a day. In 2019 it accommodated over 260 cruise liners.

 

It would be a very big ask for Helsinki to cope with even a small part of that extra traffic. 

[tring]

4 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

I do know that Finns are painfully aware of the loss of the eastern province of Karelia at the end of WW II but a more pertinent reason is the limited cruise ship capacity in Helsinki.

 

In 2019 just before covid Helsinki was coping with over 300 cruise ships a season. The problem is that the old quays including Pakkahuone and Katajanokka can only take ships up to 215 m. That rules out most modern large cruise ships.

 

There's a new cruise quay at Hernesaari. It can take ships up to 360 m but only one at a time.

 

But St Petersburg has a capacity to deal with five to seven cruise ships a day. In 2019 it accommodated over 260 cruise liners.

 

It would be a very big ask for Helsinki to cope with even a small part of that extra traffic. 

 

That would put Aurora out for the smaller keys at 270 metres.  Yes must be very worrying for the Finns.

 

[jeanlyon]

We have done a Black Sea cruise and the main enjoyment was Odessa.  We went into Constanta, but not to be recommended.   So now that Crimea is in Russian hands, not much point in the Black Sea.

[Son of Anarchy]

8 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

We have done a Black Sea cruise and the main enjoyment was Odessa.  We went into Constanta, but not to be recommended.   So now that Crimea is in Russian hands, not much point in the Black Sea.

Certainly agree about Constanta.  Bulgarian ports might be ok.

[jeanlyon]

2 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Certainly agree about Constanta.  Bulgarian ports might be ok.

Yep, we couldn't get in there!

[Ardennais]

If I had a Baltic cruise lined up, I would be gutted to miss St P (but of course understand why it must be dropped). Having already been twice, I have a list of places still to visit. I thought it was a magical and memorable city, 

[Kajojato]

Hi Cruisers,

New to this Forum, so any information would be a help,  After 2 failed attempts ) 2020, and 2021) to sail on this cruise with C&M, (went bust)_ I booked on the opening day through an Agent for the Baltic Cruise & St Petersburg, 12th May 2022, Sadly owing to the current Ukraine war , the itinerary has drastically changed, just looks like a Swedish, sail ride ow, which is not of ay interest to me.   Also all the other cruises available (If offered are booked up).     The T&Cs on  Cancellations or refunds are a little complex. and I don't want to wait another year,,,,, any advice or assistance would be of help as Im having problems with the agents.

[zap99]

5 hours ago, Denarius said:

I agree. I visited St Petersburg on a P&O cruise a number of years ago and was underwhelmed. Maybe its because I am not interested in museums. On the other hand, I enjoyed other Baltic ports like Tallin & Copenhagen and was happy to visit them again.

We have been to SPB once and even before current events, are in no rush to return. Prefer Stockholm,Copenhagen etc.

[tring]

We had an excellent Black Sea Itinerary booked with All Leisure's VOD for shortly after Crimea was annexed.  The ports included two Russian ports, three Crimean ports, Odessa, Georgia and a couple of North Turkish ports as well as Istanbul.  After loosing Crimea, an overnight was added for Odessa, as well as port calls in Romania and Bulgaria, but we did not think that Odessa would go ahead (which it did not), so we cancelled.  There were tit for tat,  expulsions etc. after that and both the UK and US embassies in SPB were closed during those, but the the Russian ports for that cruise (as well as regular SPB calls) went ahead as cruise calls after that, though I do now wonder if that was the correct decision at the time.

 

Our Russian River cruise was only a couple of months after the Salisbury "event" and we have had other things happen after we have booked holidays, some of which went ahead albeit with modifications.  Myanmar was now of those, but we arranged longer hotel stays and a one day local river transfer to fill in for a lost one week river cruise from Bagan to Mandalay with Pandaw.  The rest of that month long holiday was booked independently with internal flights and hotels in Myanmar and Thailand, as we could not find a company to co-ordinate it.  Some would say we should not have given custom to Myanmar at that time, but it would have been the lovely local people who would have lost out, so we disagree in that case.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[tring]

36 minutes ago, Kajojato said:

Hi Cruisers,

New to this Forum, so any information would be a help,  After 2 failed attempts ) 2020, and 2021) to sail on this cruise with C&M, (went bust)_ I booked on the opening day through an Agent for the Baltic Cruise & St Petersburg, 12th May 2022, Sadly owing to the current Ukraine war , the itinerary has drastically changed, just looks like a Swedish, sail ride ow, which is not of ay interest to me.   Also all the other cruises available (If offered are booked up).     The T&Cs on  Cancellations or refunds are a little complex. and I don't want to wait another year,,,,, any advice or assistance would be of help as Im having problems with the agents.

 

If your cruise is a P&O one, I presume it must be the two week Britannia one.  As the new itineraries have not yet been finalised, I suggest you hang on in there to see what happens.  After that it may be possible to cancel or replace with another itinerary, more to your liking, and there may even be some lower prices offered due to the events.  As Molecrochip has said, some or all of the Baltic itineraries may even be cancelled if necessary, after which there will be no problem at all getting a refund and booking something else totally afresh.

 

If you have booked with another cruise line, be aware some (e.g. NCL) are currently showing two sea days to to replace SPB, but that is only because they have cancelled that off and have not yet confirmed replacement ports.  Again a hang on situation for now and I suggest you post on an appropriate forum for the cruise line you have booked if that is the case.  Hope you arrange something to your liking.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tring

[Presto2]

Always a concern when itineraries change. Will always remember a special cruise we had booked on Celebrity Silhouette in her first season. We should have had 2 days in Israel and 2 days in Egypt. For some reason Egypt was cancelled so we had had an additional day in the southern part of Israel and saw Galilee, Capernaum (I think) and Ephesus instead. We had a fabulous cruise and enjoyed this itinerary more than we ever thought we would and the one originally booked.

[tring]

I know this is not directly connected to P&O, but a US poster has reported on the ports of call section that they have had a new itinerary for their Royal Caribbean cruise for July 31st.  They have had overnights added for Stockholm and Riga (departures at 4.30pm and 4pm) with an additional port of Aahrus as well.  Otherwise, just a date change for Tallin.  Helsinki appears to have been on the original itinerary and remains in place.

 

So looks like The Baltic may not be ditched entirely by cruise lines and the western Baltic is still on that itinerary.  Must admit though as the "events" go on, I am feeling less confident that the more westerly ports in The Baltic will be on itineraries for this summer.  I have often been called a pessimist in the past though, so my thoughts may have little in the way of facts attached to them.  My response to anyone calling me a pessimist is to let them know I am never disappointed mind, so does have an advantage, if only to myself. 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by tring

[Cruiseabc12345]

Hello again all

 

Feel very bad asking...I'm thinking of the people of Ukraine and know in comparison my question here isnt6 a bid deal....so fogive me ....but does anyone know if P&O will refund a Baltic cruise? Due to travel in May, have heard nothing from them directly but it appears St Petersburg will no longer be a destination for obvious reasons. However that was our main reason for booking that particular cruise. Does anyone know if I have any consumer rights in this matter? For example I don't have interest in visiting  an alternative such as Riga. I want my money back but do I have any hope!

Thank you 

[david63]

You may have a claim under Section 40 https://www.pocruises.com/legal-and-privacy/booking-terms-and-conditions

 

[Bazrat]

21 minutes ago, Cruiseabc12345 said:

Hello again all

 

Feel very bad asking...I'm thinking of the people of Ukraine and know in comparison my question here isnt6 a bid deal....so fogive me ....but does anyone know if P&O will refund a Baltic cruise? Due to travel in May, have heard nothing from them directly but it appears St Petersburg will no longer be a destination for obvious reasons. However that was our main reason for booking that particular cruise. Does anyone know if I have any consumer rights in this matter? For example I don't have interest in visiting  an alternative such as Riga. I want my money back but do I have any hope!

Thank you 

Have you contacted P&O obvious first port of call