THOUGHTS ABOUT ENCHANTMENT - YAY OR NAY

[willsaway]

Considering 2023 Alaska/Hawaii/Sydney. Booked on Serenade & it cancelled. Tried again Radiance, again cancelled. Is RCI fobbing us off with an old tired ship, or is she worth the punt? 

[Chiliburn]

I agree with the tired old ship.

I was hoping enchantment was just placement for something much better such as a Oasis class or even Icon of the seas.

But on another cruise site there’s talk that Lifou ,Mare and isle of pine now have size restrictions on ships . With the restrictions all Royal Caribbean can get in there is a vision class.
I tried to confirm the rumour but it’s hard to get much information on the islands.
It does add up though, because the only ship that does those islands in the in the 23-24 season is enchantment. Also there where complaints about the big ships and Tahiti has introduced a similar restriction.

It’s the oldest ship in the fleet but it does have a cult following .I won’t be rushing to book it though.

[geoff2802]

I think they’re sending Enchantment as retribution for delaying the proposed third cruise terminal at Botany Bay.  Being of older design, it has relatively few balconies, so they won’t even be cheap.  I don’t think it will be successful in this market.  
We have Coral Princess coming to Brisbane - a much better option.   

Edited April 20, 2022 by geoff2802

[Chiliburn]

22 minutes ago, geoff2802 said:

I think they’re sending Enchantment as retribution for delaying the proposed third cruise terminal at Botany Bay.  Being of older design, it has relatively few balconies, so they won’t even be cheap.  I don’t think it will be successful in this market.  
We have Coral Princess coming to Brisbane - a much better option.   

We should expect the new cruise terminal back on the news again.

Botany seem like the only real option.

[Aus Traveller]

29 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

We should expect the new cruise terminal back on the news again.

Botany seem like the only real option.

I don't think there will be any discussion about a new terminal for Sydney for at least a year. Cruising will have to be in full swing before it is even thought about.

[gbenjo]

36 minutes ago, geoff2802 said:

I think they’re sending Enchantment as retribution for delaying the proposed third cruise terminal at Botany Bay.  Being of older design, it has relatively few balconies, so they won’t even be cheap.  I don’t think it will be successful in this market.  
We have Coral Princess coming to Brisbane - a much better option.   

Retribution for who?

The third terminal was “ progressing”  until covid hit and created the uncertainty about the future for Royal ( and the other cruise lines ).  Deployment of ships is ordinarily  done years in advance but with all the uncertainty  in recent times  who can predict what may happen. Enchantment may even  be an option for a year round deployment once everything “settles down” 

[Chiliburn]

6 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I don't think there will be any discussion about a new terminal for Sydney for at least a year. Cruising will have to be in full swing before it is even thought about.

It won’t take much to congest OPT.

 

Sell white bay and there will be cash left over.

 

The Chinese navy would be a potential buyer.

[geoff2802]

2 hours ago, gbenjo said:

Retribution for who?

The third terminal was “ progressing”  until covid hit and created the uncertainty about the future for Royal ( and the other cruise lines ).  Deployment of ships is ordinarily  done years in advance but with all the uncertainty  in recent times  who can predict what may happen. Enchantment may even  be an option for a year round deployment once everything “settles down” 

Retribution for failing to address the congestion at Sydney OPT.  The NSW government has been pfaffing around for several years and delivered nothing more than a preference for a site.  Covid was cause for yet another delay.  
Compare to Florida and Texas where this stuff gets done.  Result is more ships, newer ships and more itinerary options.   

[geoff2802]

3 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

We should expect the new cruise terminal back on the news again.

Botany seem like the only real option.

If the NSW government exceeds expectations, there might be a new terminal in 10 years.  

[arxcards]

5 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

But on another cruise site there’s talk that Lifou ,Mare and isle of pine now have size restrictions on ships . With the restrictions all Royal Caribbean can get in there is a vision class.
I tried to confirm the rumour but it’s hard to get much information on the islands.
It does add up though, because the only ship that does those islands in the in the 23-24 season is enchantment. Also there where complaints about the big ships and Tahiti has introduced a similar restriction.

That makes for a bleak picture in general for cruising to the islands. If it is vision class or smaller, pretty much none of the planned East Coast ships can go there - P&O's 2 x grand class, Royal or Grand class from Princess, no Carnival, Celebrity, HAL offerings either. Just Enchantment, Coral Princess (maybe) and Pacific Explorer, so they would more readily dump those New Caledonia & Loyalty Island stops in favour of Vanuatu, Fiji & PNG

[Chiliburn]

24 minutes ago, arxcards said:

That makes for a bleak picture in general for cruising to the islands. If it is vision class or smaller, pretty much none of the planned East Coast ships can go there - P&O's 2 x grand class, Royal or Grand class from Princess, no Carnival, Celebrity, HAL offerings either. Just Enchantment, Coral Princess (maybe) and Pacific Explorer, so they would more readily dump those New Caledonia & Loyalty Island stops in favour of Vanuatu, Fiji & PNG

From what I saw ,those islands where pretty well overwhelmed, I think the novelty of thousands of people invading,would wear off pretty quick.
‘Milford sound is introducing restrictions also.

I suppose if we want to cruise on a ship 300 meters or better ,we will have to settle for over commercialised ports and private islands.

[subaru94]

57 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

From what I saw ,those islands where pretty well overwhelmed, I think the novelty of thousands of people invading,would wear off pretty quick.
‘Milford sound is introducing restrictions also.

I suppose if we want to cruise on a ship 300 meters or better ,we will have to settle for over commercialised ports and private islands.

What restrictions is Milford Sound introducing?

[NSWP]

8 minutes ago, subaru94 said:

What restrictions is Milford Sound introducing?

No Mega ships, it is the wash from these ships causing the issue I think.   The Princess Grand Class are around 290m long, but for example QM2 is around 340 metres so could be banned.

Edited April 21, 2022 by NSWP

[subaru94]

1 minute ago, NSWP said:

No Mega ships, it is the wash from these ships causing the issue I think.   The Prices Grand Class are around 290m long, but for example QM2 is around 310 metres so could be banned.

We have a cruise booked on the  Queen Elizabeth going to New Zealand next February, so think this size ship should be o.k.  Funny cruise lines are building bigger cruise ships, however, there will be less ports that they will be allowed to go into.  Wonder if they will rethink size of cruise ships?  

[Chiliburn]

13 minutes ago, subaru94 said:

What restrictions is Milford Sound introducing?

They can’t go right into the sound , not as far as the village.

[gbenjo]

2 hours ago, geoff2802 said:

Retribution for failing to address the congestion at Sydney OPT.  The NSW government has been pfaffing around for several years and delivered nothing more than a preference for a site.  Covid was cause for yet another delay.  
Compare to Florida and Texas where this stuff gets done.  Result is more ships, newer ships and more itinerary options.   

Unfortunately, Sydney Harbour’s greatest asset is also its greatest drawback in as much as its close proximity to the city also means the non availability of suitable sites for cruise ships and as you cannot “grow”new sites  ,there is not a lot anybody can do.Port Botany is a second preference but once again the availability of suitable sites is limited and what is there is resisted  by the “ whinging minorities who usually get their way. Obviously the market in the US is massive compared to here so your  comparison is hardly relevant. 

[arxcards]

While there might be a desire to restrict the ships, an alternative is that ships no longer visit. No taxes paid and no tourist money. 

 

Restrictions can also be based on the number of visits per week, which is what I believe Lifou and IOP have imposed for some years.

[Aus Traveller]

5 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

They can’t go right into the sound , not as far as the village.

I read that also. The larger ships won't be able to go as close to the end of Milford Sound as they have been.

[Aus Traveller]

13 minutes ago, subaru94 said:

We have a cruise booked on the  Queen Elizabeth going to New Zealand next February, so think this size ship should be o.k.  Funny cruise lines are building bigger cruise ships, however, there will be less ports that they will be allowed to go into.  Wonder if they will rethink size of cruise ships?  

The larger ships the cruise lines are building are not designed for the Aust/NZ/South Pacific market. Their key market is the Caribbean and cruises close to USA. On our first cruise in the Caribbean in 1998, several of the ports had seven cruise ships. We were on the Ryandam - she was the little one at the end.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Aus Traveller

[OzKiwiJJ]

19 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The larger ships the cruise lines are building are not designed for the Aust/NZ/South Pacific market. Their key market is the Caribbean and cruises close to USA. On our first cruise in the Caribbean in 1998, several of the ports had seven cruise ships. We were on the Ryandam - she was the little one at the end.

I wonder if the cruise lines will have enough future vision to see that they will need two kinds of ships in their fleets?

- Big ones for cruises with very limited port stops where the ship is essentially the destination. These ships would probably continue to enhance their onboard amusements, especially ones that cost extra.

- Small ships for destination cruising, where the ports are the main attraction. Probably around 2000-2500 passengers but no more, but size might be dictated by the ports they hope to visit.

 

It will be interesting to see which of the major cruise lines (if any) is the first to announce they are building a new, smaller class of ship.

 

[Chiliburn]

40 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I wonder if the cruise lines will have enough future vision to see that they will need two kinds of ships in their fleets?

- Big ones for cruises with very limited port stops where the ship is essentially the destination. These ships would probably continue to enhance their onboard amusements, especially ones that cost extra.

- Small ships for destination cruising, where the ports are the main attraction. Probably around 2000-2500 passengers but no more, but size might be dictated by the ports they hope to visit.

 

It will be interesting to see which of the major cruise lines (if any) is the first to announce they are building a new, smaller class of ship.

 

Where would coral princess leave from? OPT?

[Aus Traveller]

Just now, Chiliburn said:

Where would coral princess leave from? OPT?

Yes. The OPT in Sydney and the new cruise terminal in Brisbane.

[mr walker]

4 hours ago, geoff2802 said:

Retribution for failing to address the congestion at Sydney OPT.

In the real world, businesses don't make decisions based on retribution over perceived shortcomings of governments of whatever persuasion/jurisdiction, but on how they can do the best for their business ie make money and ensure the ongoing viability. It is a ridiculous proposition you make.

[arxcards]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

The larger ships the cruise lines are building are not designed for the Aust/NZ/South Pacific market. Their key market is the Caribbean and cruises close to USA. On our first cruise in the Caribbean in 1998, several of the ports had seven cruise ships. We were on the Ryandam - she was the little one at the end.

I must admit, I was a little disappointed when P&O decided to ditch Aria. Coral & Island are now the babies of the Princess fleet as well. I guess that is why we get the cast-offs here, with other markets geared for bigger & better.

 

Yes, I love these mega ships, but give me a nice itinerary any day. 

[arxcards]

15 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Yes. The OPT in Sydney and the new cruise terminal in Brisbane.

We would be happy to take her in Newcastle 😁