How much rafting to expect as well as crowds

[Vineyard View]

We sailed The Grand European itinerary on Viking in 2014. We enjoyed it so much we are considering a repeat. At that time, rafting of the ships in ports was not very widespread. Crowds were there, but manageable. 
 

I am wondering what to expect now with all the new builds that have been added by not only Viking, but many other river cruise lines. The towns are often compact, so with the additional vessels, I am also thinking about how that has impacted crowds as well. 
 

I would appreciate input from experiences much more recent than our last trip. Thanks much! 

[Gourmet Gal]

If you are traveling at the very beginning or end of the cruise season the crowds may be a bit lighter but you will bound to be rafted multiple times on a typical cruise.  It really isn’t a problem unless you have mobility issues.

[Vineyard View]

Thank you for your response. We are looking at May. So not the peak of the travel season (our favorite month to travel in Europe).  In 2014 out of 15 days I think we rafted twice. 

[pontac]

On our Rhine Getaway during the last week of April this year we were rafted just once and there were no crowds. But, OTOH, our boat was less than half full. Its taking the travel industry and passengers some time to recover post-pandemic.

 

You are considering a cruise 11 months from now. You'd need someone with an infallible crystal ball to say what the position will be then. 🙂

 

If you're considering Viking again, they have their own mooring jetties and if you had a boat rafted between you and the shore it's just a matter of walking though the other boats reception.

 

But some lines don't allow that and you have to climb to the top deck, cross to the other boat's top deck and then down to dock level.

Edited June 8, 2022 by pontac
to correct a spelling error

[Canal archive]

It’s not necessarily not allowed mostly it’s the different boat construction and they don’t line up properly. Most companies if you ask nicely will escort you to the lounge for a quick peek. They want to lure you away from your carrier.

[gnome12]

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

It’s not necessarily not allowed mostly it’s the different boat construction and they don’t line up properly. Most companies if you ask nicely will escort you to the lounge for a quick peek. They want to lure you away from your carrier.

I wonder if that is still true in these days of Covid?

[Canal archive]

Very true that would I expect be decided by which country the passengers come from.

[Vineyard View]

Thank you all for this further input. And yes, an inflatable crystal ball is about right!!! 

I just wasn’t sure how much it had changed since we were on. I guess the most up to date accuracy would be pre-Covid given that full capacity isn’t always happening right now. It will be interesting to see how this all rolls out in the next year. River ships are more confining (particularly dining), even though there are so fewer total passengers. 

[mhb1757]

We did the Danube on Viking the last week of May and we’re rafted 4 or 5 nights. During this trip Viking ships were rafted to other Viking ships (3 deep in Vienna and Budapest). None of the other lines we saw were rafted to other ships since we never saw more than one ship from any other line in a port. We saw Avalon, Emerald, Uniworld and CrosiEurope in most ports. Most nights there were 4 to 7 Viking ships docked! 

[Vineyard View]

Wow. Thank you for that. I have to think that all these ships at once impacted the ports you were in from a crowds standpoint. I appreciate your update. 

[CILCIANRQTS]

Currently on Viking. 
Just left Budapest. We were rafted with 2 other Viking ships, and I believe there were 4 other Viking ships in the area.

Rafting is now a certainty in the large cities.

I remember when Viking would promote that they  had they’re own docks. Not an advantage now with rafting.

[Canal archive]

Yup so many ships!

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

I remember when Viking would promote that they  had they’re own docks. Not an advantage now with rafting.

They still have their own docks, but as you said, that fact is not really the asset it used to be. In Koblenz, for example, rafting with another Viking ship is standard and part of the deal of having one ship start in Amsterdam and one ship in Basel to meet in the Middle Rhine valley so that in low water ship swaps can happen "easily". I admit, a minor disturbance but with so many ships around, Viking now can run into problems fitting all ships in at their own landing stages. For example, Koblenz and Cologne. Cologne can mean moving out to the landing stage (their own) further out of town, or being in Deutz on the other side of the river. The Viking dock in Rüdesheim is further out from the others, but still close enough to walk into town.

 

So, that promotion slogan is now a mixed bag of good and not as good as it used to be.

 

As regards crowds. It really depends on the month, the day of the week, where the passengers are, i.e. in town or on an excursion. Passau is getting a bit full, Rüdesheim certainly, but again: the experience will be mixed along the itinerary but enhanced and "worse" compared to 2014.

 

And as a side note: not all locals are happy with the "Viking invasion". Overcrowding and too many coaches blocking roads and creating noise are on the table of town council meetings and local action groups. Again, a mixed experience depending on town and its surroundings.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[mhb1757]

Honestly following our recent Danube cruise with Viking I can see no advantage to a veranda cabin since we were rafted 5 of the 7 nights with a ship on our side so the curtains had to remain closed and the balcony was not accessible in any practical way. 

[rizello]

We booked the swan room so have been wondering if we would miss having a veranda.  I was always curious how rafting would impact having a veranda.

[Host Jazzbeau]

29 minutes ago, rizello said:

We booked the swan room so have been wondering if we would miss having a veranda.  I was always curious how rafting would impact having a veranda.

It impacts using the veranda by going outside - big time while rafted.  It impacts using the veranda picture window to see the scenery – big time while rafted.  But the veranda picture window is always there when you want it, letting in light through the scrim curtain [there's also a blackout curtain for sleeping].  Note:  a French balcony cabin gives you most of these benefits, and is less impacted by rafting because the first point doesn't apply.

 

 In prior years when rafting wasn't so much of a problem, we preferred a French balcony on the middle deck [quietest location].  Now, because of rafting, we go for a French balcony on the top deck – a little noise from the walking track, but much more light when rafted.

 

Aquarium deck cabins are always darker, and especially so when rafted; and will experience more noise going through locks and scraping the bottom in low water.  The savings just isn't worth it to us, but I can understand why others think it is very worthwhile.  [We prefer the privacy of our cabin for lounging; if you like to hang out in the lounge, your mileage will vary!]

[Vineyard View]

Wow. I find these reports rather sad. We had a balcony previously and as said, only rafted twice in 15 days. Not being able to relax on the balcony when we wanted to would be a negative impact. Also would be if the rafting occurs outside of these towns and walking on your own - as we almost always did - would be impacted negatively. 
I can see how the locals might be weary of all this. Kind of a mini Venice or Dubrovnik situation which resulted in big changes. 
I would not want a negative experience with all this after having such positive in ‘14 , but that may be unavoidable. 

I pivoted back to rivers when one of their Ocean voyages, B2B Venice,  got impacted negatively by those changes that we had on our radar. Now I am honestly not sure where we will land, but I appreciate all the honesty and feedback. It is truly helpful. 

[CILCIANRQTS]

Last Rhine trip in November, Cologne was so crowded that we docked at Deutz across the river from the city.

And for our excursion they made us walk over the LONG bridge to get to the start of our downtown walking tour.

[Canal archive]

I can honestly say that over many years of river cruising we have only rafted/breasted up occasionally and then for a short period once when the shoreside vessel was awaiting the late return of an excursion which ended in a bit of a teasing session, what can I say but it’s great having so many Aussies on board. Once on the Moselle when an A-Rosa ship moored next to us, well it’s Captain was married to our Cruise Director lovely couple. Once when we shared a glass of wine with our next door neighbours something had gone wrong with a lock! A few other times but never for long. There are many more vessels on the rivers it’s why I’m glad Viking has its own ‘docking locations’. Most Captains preference is not to raft as it potentially could cause damage to their precious vessels.

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

Last Rhine trip in November, Cologne was so crowded that we docked at Deutz across the river from the city.

And for our excursion they made us walk over the LONG bridge to get to the start of our downtown walking tour.

That is doable but not very nice. It is a busy place and quite honestly definitely not good service to make you walk. It would not make sense hiring a coach for that distance that much, but no, not fun in my opinion and eats up your time that you would have walking along the old town's streets.

 

8 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Kind of a mini Venice or Dubrovnik situation which resulted in big changes. 

From newspapers It sounds as if the people of Passau felt like this in 2019 and they will soon be back at the same level.

 

8 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Now I am honestly not sure where we will land, but I appreciate all the honesty and feedback. It is truly helpful. 

Regard me as being a little on the negative side, perhaps because I am geographically closer to the locals by nature, but actually I really see the rafting and crowds as the downside that can be acceptable because the upside is splendid . River cruising still has immense charm and if one is prepared for it, a great experience can be had. I sailed in a French balcony cabin in 2013 and loved it. Triple-docking it was in Vienna, even then. But it was somewhat interesting. It was my first (and only) river cruise - now I just see the ships docked along "my" river - so in Vienna I walked through the other ships, up and over and down, a bit awkward but this curious girl tried to get a good glimpse of the other interiors. My travel companion's and my verdict was that we had at least the second best ship...

 

I was more fascinated by the rafting than being annoyed. If one only knows the rivers from brochures and videos I can understand why people would find it more than just an inconvenience when they are sailing.

 

For me, a veranda would not be worth the expense but a French Balcony for the fresh air and light is the best fit for me.

 

Have fun planning and although we have given you a bit to think about, I hope after a couple of nights' sleep, you will be upbeat about river cruising again.

 

By the way, the Moselle, the Saar and the Neckar are not so busy and at least the Moselle is as beautiful as the Main and Rhine, some say they like the Moselle the best. For me the Main and the Moselle are a notch above the Rhine. Should you catch yourself thinking of changing the itinerary...

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:55 PM, notamermaid said:

Viking now can run into problems fitting all ships in at their own landing stages. For example, Koblenz and Cologne.

The situation at Koblenz this afternoon:

On the Moselle, unusually there is just the S.S. Antoinette signalling, webcam says there is one other ship. On the Rhine there are the Viking Egdir, the Viking Rolf, the Scenic Opal and the Emerald Dawn on the left bank and on the newly-established landing stage on the right bank at Ehrenbreitstein is the Viking Hild. Those I can confirm with the webcam (apart from the Viking Hild which is out of the camera angle). The other dots are excursion boats or other craft.

 

This makes six ships, a potential of nearly 1,000 river cruise passengers. If they all congregate in the old town, they do become quite visible but I would not call it overcrowded. Together with locals and day trippers I would call it very busy.

 

In Rüdesheim this could feel quite different, for me bordering on overtourism.

 

In Würzburg I would call it busy.

 

In Bernkastel-Kues on the Moselle I would call it overly full and for me unpleasant (I think they cannot accommodate six ships yet but I am not sure of the latest developments).

 

In Cologne they are more likely to blend in in this huge city.

 

Just my impressions.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Vineyard View]

notamermaid. Thank you. I appreciate your insights and honesty. I also really appreciate the current snapshot of Koblenz. Pretty busy. 
I agree that river cruising was simply delightful. It is why we are considering taking another. I am not stuck on just the one itinerary, but I do like that it is 15 days of actual cruising  vs itineraries that include bus transportation mixed in with river cruises in order to make it a longer itinerary. We are absolutely not interested in that concept. Land touring is for us independent. Since we rarely take ship excursions that concept doesn’t work for us. That piece is in the decision mix for us. That said, all these responses have helped paint a more up to date picture on river cruising, so as was said, better to go in knowing than surprised. 

[KathyK13]

Notamermaid,

We took the Remich to Amsterdam tour with Avalon in 2019.  I agree with you, I found the Moselle to be more scenic than the Rhine, at least the part of the Rhine that we saw.  Can't speak to the scenery south of Rudescheim.  We found the entire stretch of the Moselle to be stunning with all of the vineyards  along the way.  We did get to see the Rhine Gorge twice, on our way to Rudesheim and on our way back north!  We also found there to be less traffic on the Moselle and even though we were cruising in early June the places we visited didn't seem very crowded.  The only time we rafted on this trip was in Amsterdam and our room was on the opposite side of the boat so we were lucky!  We were in Rudesheim first thing in the morning and were able to tour with no crowds.  One of our favorite excursions on the trip was a surprise, not included in the list of tours.  We docked in a small town on the Rhine, not far from Rudesheim, and were treated to a piano and violin concert after dinner on the boat.  I think it was in a music school or small concert hall that we docked right in front of and were able to walk to.  The pianist a violinist were fantastic, and many of us told the CD that Avalon should make it a permanent offering.  I wish I could remember where it was!  

 

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, KathyK13 said:

I wish I could remember where it was! 

Now there is a puzzle, perhaps we can figure it out together .

 

notamermaid

 

[KathyK13]

57 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Now there is a puzzle, perhaps we can figure it out together .

 

notamermaid

 

I think my DH took pictures, will ask him to look it up!  It was a cute little town and we were the only ones there. Several people walked around town after the concert and checked out a pub!