Here’s Why we aren’t booking a cruise.

[Bo1953]

2 hours ago, iancal said:

It is not about what the court may or may not do.

 

Rather it is about the financial ability of the average customer who believes he or she may have an issue to be answered, to engage legal services.

 

Some of us are armchair attorneys in varied industries and countries.... without understanding the real legal aspects of what we want corrected according to our desires... LOL

 

Then again, a few of us choose to avail ourselves of 'air service' in the current environment, knowing that there may be issues to overcome YET may say 'it will not happen to me'... LOL

 

bon voyage

[rkacruiser]

16 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

in the current environment, knowing that there may be issues to overcome YET may say 'it will not happen to me'... LOL

 

Seriously, has there ever been a time when that any of us have thought "this won't happen to me"?  

 

A tire issue on I-95 in West Palm Beach en route to Fort Lauderdale for a Holiday cruise in the middle of Friday afternoon prior to Christmas has been one example of.....whatever may happen can happen regardless of how well one has planned and prepared.  

 

Who ever thought that they would find their Amtrak car ending up on its side in Kansas and they had to climb out of the car by an emergency window?  

 

If one has not experienced such "it won't happen to me moments", one ought to pray to your God with prayers of thankfulness.  

[Globaliser]

10 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Right, and there is a question of whether any court would uphold such a one-sided, overreaching contract.

 

This is a standard provision in airline contracts all over the world, including in jurisdictions in which consumer protection is strong. There are good reasons for it, because airline operations are inherently unstable. Safety causes many delays, and that alone justifies the contract provision even if it also benefits the airline at other times like when there's a staffing shortage. So I wouldn't fancy anyone's chances of getting it struck down. In the EU, the route taken was to overlay legislative rights on top of the contract, rather than fiddling with what the contract could contain.

For what it's worth, in case anyone thinks that the standard provision is wrapped up in incomprehensible legalese, here are the relevant sentences from four big US airlines.

 

American Airlines: "We do our best to be on time but our flight schedule is not guaranteed and not part of this contract."

 

Delta: "Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to transport you and your baggage from your origin to your destination with reasonable dispatch, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

 

Southwest: "Flight schedules are subject to change without notice, and times shown are not guaranteed."

 

United: "Times shown on tickets, timetables, published schedules or elsewhere, and aircraft type and similar details reflected on tickets or UA’s schedule are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

 

So this is absolutely clear. You have no contractual entitlement.

 

What is more entertaining is people who make grand pronouncements about the industry when they clearly don't even understand the most basic things about it.

[6rugrats]

3 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

 

What is more entertaining is people who make grand pronouncements about the industry when they clearly don't even understand the most basic things about it.

This.

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, Globaliser said:

What is more entertaining is people who make grand pronouncements about the industry when they clearly don't even understand the most basic things about it.

 

This again.

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, Globaliser said:

Delta: "Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to transport you and your baggage from your origin to your destination with reasonable dispatch, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

 

For all those folks who insist that they have bought a specific seat on an aircraft.

 

 

[Joseph2017China]

I guess I don't care?  I'm still going on trips

 

[FlyerTalker]

43 minutes ago, alidor said:

Been selling travel for about 50 years.  Think I understand it very well.  Although I don’t need to advertise the fact, like some people….

 

I know many people who sell a product and have absolutely ZERO knowledge about what they are selling.  Just look at how many cruise "travel agents" are merely order takers processing a sales transation - and who have no clue about what they are providing to their customer.

 

And FWIW, I describe my experience to back up my bona fides.  Since none of you know me in real life, why do I need to impress any of you?  Answer - I don't.

[alidor]

Not just a cruise agent.   Use to work for an international airline at O'Hare for many years... 

[Dolebludger]

For one thing, I never posted interest in suing any airline. In fact, I expressed disinterest in that.but the problem continues,  TV news reported today that domestic airlines have been canceling flights at the rate of 500 per day this week.Delta has announced that they are not reliable. United has offered to pay customers to cancel flights around July 4th. And rebook later. And one problem is airlines are still overbooking their flights. Thus, my only point is that I will not fly anywhere until this mess is resolved.

[FlyerTalker]

9 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

And one problem is airlines are still overbooking their flights.

 

Source please?

 

[Globaliser]

19 hours ago, alidor said:

Been selling travel for about 50 years.  Think I understand it very well.

 

16 hours ago, alidor said:

Not just a cruise agent.   Use to work for an international airline at O'Hare for many years... 

 

Then you should know better than to suggest to the public that they have a contractual entitlement to the times published in schedules.

 

13 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

And one problem is airlines are still overbooking their flights.

 

So what? Airlines have to overbook flights, otherwise they would go out half empty (and fares would have to be double what they are).

 

Airlines don't like to oversell flights, because that costs them a lot of money, but the random nature of the business means that it does sometimes happen.

[Dolebludger]

I am now watching CBS evenIng news with reports are that the airlines can’t supply anything close to reliable service this weekend because of staffing shortages — not because of weather!  Some lines have taken office employees to man ticket counters. Because of the arguments I have received here when I have said airlines are inadequate, I will let all draw their own conclusions.

[Dolebludger]

And a bit later, I saw on CBS news that Delta pilots were about to go on strike due to excessive hours required due to the retirement and resignation of their pilot staff. stay tuned.

[Globaliser]

9 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Because of the arguments I have received here when I have said airlines are inadequate, I will let all draw their own conclusions.

 

And your point is?

 

Airlines all over the world are having big problems at the moment. So are airports. None of this is news (at least to anyone who reads news). This is happening to both government-owned and privately-owned companies alike (as well as non-air transport companies like cruise lines).

 

So nationalising or regulating airlines isn't going to achieve anything, let alone solve these problems. But to see that, you have to know a bit about what the industry's problems actually are, rather than just bleating "Waaah, I don't like it!" from the narrow point of view of a passenger.

[Z'Loth]

10 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I am now watching CBS evenIng news with reports are that the airlines can’t supply anything close to reliable service this weekend because of staffing shortages — not because of weather!  Some lines have taken office employees to man ticket counters. Because of the arguments I have received here when I have said airlines are inadequate, I will let all draw their own conclusions.

 

From Live and Let's Fly (published April 29th, 2022):

 

Ouch: American Airlines Fires 50 Flight Attendants For Dereliction Of Duty

 

"American Airlines has fired 50 flight attendants who failed to report for duty on reserve, as their contract required. The move disproportionately hits junior flight attendants but should come as no surprise to those who deliberately violated their contract by not actually being able to fly while on company time."

 

FULL ARTICLE HERE

 

From AviationPros (published June 1st, 2022):

 

ITA Pilot Fired After Allegedly Sleeping During Long-Haul Flight

 

"The captain of a long-haul flight between New York and Rome was fired after accusations that he fell asleep and was unavailable while flying over France on May 1."

 

FULL ARTICLE HERE

 

In case you haven't noticed, it's 2020+2, and there are multiple challenges facing the world economy affecting more than just airlines. Tried to purchase a car lately--either new or used? Good luck getting what you want off the lot. 

[Z'Loth]

17 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Yes, new cars are hard to get these days. They have to be ordered and take months to arrive. and dealers are expecting $ over MSRP. Happy that I like my cars, and am not looking at new ones. 

 

My current vehicle, a 2013 Buick Verano, has 95K miles on it. I'm taking nice, loving care on it as I don't think I can purchase a replacement until I get my home paid off. Thank goodness I don't drive much anymore.