Ever Been Denied Boarding for Not Knowing Something the Royal Travel Agent Didn't Tell you?

[rudeney]

11 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

My personal wish is that the cruise lines did a better job spelling out what travel documents are needed for closed loop sailings, especially for our foreign guests.

 

I agree.  It really does not seem like it would be very difficult to do this.  Country of citizenship must be entered during booking.  At that time, it would be simple enough to present a screen explaining what is needed based on citizenship/ports with check marks to indicate which docs will be used.  In this case, if the OP had checked "DL + BC" then it could have noted that the BC had to have been issued since 2011.  For non-US citizens, it could prompt them to seek visas where needed.  Of course this wouldn't be fool-proof because humans can always choose to ignore things, even scary big red "STOP" warnings.  But at least it would be better than buried in the fine print.    

[Magicat]

One time we were almost denied boarding because the immigration officer at the airport stamped our Canadian passports with a C1 visa instead of a B2 visa.  The check in clerk said we were not allowed to board because of this mix up of the CBP officer's mistake.  A supervisor came and checked us in like she was doing something shady.

Another time my wife was given a hard time because the agent didn't know how to handle her Canadian passport.  It was like it was the first time he encountered one.  Both times this happened in Galveston.

[BND]

1 hour ago, rudeney said:

 

I agree.  It really does not seem like it would be very difficult to do this.  Country of citizenship must be entered during booking.  At that time, it would be simple enough to present a screen explaining what is needed based on citizenship/ports with check marks to indicate which docs will be used.  In this case, if the OP had checked "DL + BC" then it could have noted that the BC had to have been issued since 2011.  For non-US citizens, it could prompt them to seek visas where needed.  Of course this wouldn't be fool-proof because humans can always choose to ignore things, even scary big red "STOP" warnings.  But at least it would be better than buried in the fine print.    

Puerto Rico is a US territory and anyone born there is a US citizen.

Edited August 4, 2022 by BND

[rudeney]

1 minute ago, BND said:

Puerto Rico is a US territory and anyone born there is a US citizen.

 

Yeah, that's true, except they have a separate option for PR:

 

[Starry Eyes]

19 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

Yeah, that's true, except they have a separate option for PR:

 

OK, that option is provided, but they are US citizen they might quite appropriately just select USA like the rest of us.

 

If my birth state (not naming the state as way too many people would agree it could happen🤣)discovers it’s records have been overtaken by fraudsters and declares my old BC invalid, it will be duty to get a new valid one.  Just as it is my job to make sure I show up with a real BC not hospital record, long form vs short form, etc.

 

We buy annual travel medical insurance and routinely decline other coverage.  The only times I have broken that pattern and purchased the cruiseline’s cancel-anytime-coverage there were special circumstances afoot (relative with terminal illness, an odd work situation) that greatly altered my cancellation risk.  Looking through the lens of my own behavior makes me wonder if the OP also suspected an increased cancellation risk for this trip.

[Bencruisin]

15 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I'm still confused, she mentioned BC rules etc but didn't mention the specifics about needing PR BC need to be replaced?

Correct.

[Bencruisin]

48 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

OK, that option is provided, but they are US citizen they might quite appropriately just select USA like the rest of us.

 

If my birth state (not naming the state as way too many people would agree it could happen🤣)discovers it’s records have been overtaken by fraudsters and declares my old BC invalid, it will be duty to get a new valid one.  Just as it is my job to make sure I show up with a real BC not hospital record, long form vs short form, etc.

 

We buy annual travel medical insurance and routinely decline other coverage.  The only times I have broken that pattern and purchased the cruiseline’s cancel-anytime-coverage there were special circumstances afoot (relative with terminal illness, an odd work situation) that greatly altered my cancellation risk.  Looking through the lens of my own behavior makes me wonder if the OP also suspected an increased cancellation risk for this trip.

I took out the insurance on a hunch.  My gut was telling me that things were "off" as compared to all the previous cruises we've taken.  Maybe it was all the covid steps and rules.  Even though it looked like covid issues for the most part would result in a refund of sorts I thought it was a good idea to take out insurance for the $9000 cost.

[Starry Eyes]

42 minutes ago, Bencruisin said:

I took out the insurance on a hunch.  My gut was telling me that things were "off" as compared to all the previous cruises we've taken.  Maybe it was all the covid steps and rules.  Even though it looked like covid issues for the most part would result in a refund of sorts I thought it was a good idea to take out insurance for the $9000 cost.

Yeah, I also get hunches sometimes.

 

Get those passports renewed and have your wife get the new BC, just in case.  Hope the next cruise booking goes better.

[later]

I would doubt your insurance company will pay for invalid documents that you presented.

[rudeney]

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

OK, that option is provided, but they are US citizen they might quite appropriately just select USA like the rest of us.

 

That's is true, and the dropdown defaults to USA.  Maybe they need to change the option it the dropdown to "United States (lower 48 + AK + HI)."  And in this case, I think the OP's wife lives in the "mainland" USA so it might have been even more confusing.  My thought was just to leverage technology to try to let people know that they may need some extra details for their cruise.  I am sure this is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.  

 

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

If my birth state (not naming the state as way too many people would agree it could happen🤣)discovers it’s records have been overtaken by fraudsters and declares my old BC invalid, it will be duty to get a new valid one.  Just as it is my job to make sure I show up with a real BC not hospital record, long form vs short form, etc.

 

 

Just giving the OP the benefit of the doubt...maybe his wife has been out of PR for so long that she had no clue this was an issue.  I'm not for PR nor do I have any close friends from there, but I had never heard of this issue until this thread. Search for info about it, I found this:

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/puerto-rico-birth-certificate-crisis-invalidating-fix/story?id=10422841

 

It seems that it's a two-fold problem in that pre-2011 PR BC's were easy to fake, plus they used them for ID so it was easy to get valid certified copies to use for making fakes.  It's unfortunate for all those people having to deal with this.

 

[Starry Eyes]

16 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

That's is true, and the dropdown defaults to USA.  Maybe they need to change the option it the dropdown to "United States (lower 48 + AK + HI)."  And in this case, I think the OP's wife lives in the "mainland" USA so it might have been even more confusing.  My thought was just to leverage technology to try to let people know that they may need some extra details for their cruise.  I am sure this is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.  

 

 

The question asked citizenship, not birthplace.  There are many naturalized US citizens.  Plus, children born abroad may receive transmitted US citizenship from their US citizen parent(s).  Thus, lots of US citizens have birth certificates from around the globe. 

[rudeney]

4 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

The question asked citizenship, not birthplace.  There are many naturalized US citizens.  Plus, children born abroad may receive transmitted US citizenship from their US citizen parent(s).  Thus, lots of US citizens have birth certificates from around the globe. 

 

That's a good point.  In those cases, a birth certificate could not be used to cruise.  Those passengers would require a passport because they don't have US- issued birth certificates.  

 

This all just solidifies my advice for people to get a passport.  I know many people will argue that it's a hassle or that they won't cruise very often, etc. but it sure prevents issues like this.  

[klfrodo]

56 minutes ago, later said:

I would doubt your insurance company will pay for invalid documents that you presented.

They won't pay for the reason you cite.

However, the Royal policy does include Cancel For Any Reason rider. That rider allows one to cancel for "Any" reason up to scheduled departure date and time and receive a future cruise credit for 90% of paid value.

[Starry Eyes]

19 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

That's a good point.  In those cases, a birth certificate could not be used to cruise.  Those passengers would require a passport because they don't have US- issued birth certificates.  

 

This all just solidifies my advice for people to get a passport.  I know many people will argue that it's a hassle or that they won't cruise very often, etc. but it sure prevents issues like this.  

Like you, I travel with a passport and totally agree that it is the best option.  
 

I don’t know if others absolutely cannot travel with their international BC if they also have other supporting documentation.  I’d submit that we all have to be responsible for the status of our own documents.  People with more complicated situations have to be more proactive, whether those complexities are due to location at birth or our own decisions (name changes, for example).

[rudeney]

14 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

Like you, I travel with a passport and totally agree that it is the best option.  
 

I don’t know if others absolutely cannot travel with their international BC if they also have other supporting documentation.  I’d submit that we all have to be responsible for the status of our own documents.  People with more complicated situations have to be more proactive, whether those complexities are due to location at birth or our own decisions (name changes, for example).

 

My wife was almost denied boarding a DCL cruise many years ago.  I had a passport as I traveled for my job, but it was her first time cruising and she had no passport, so she used her BC and DL.  Her maiden name on her BC did not match her married name on her DL and we didn't even consider that she should bring our marriage certificate.  They had a port supervisor talk to her and they were about deny us boarding, but she showed her social security card (I have no idea why she had it with her) and here's where it gets weird.  For some reason, when she changed her name officially with the social security office, she used her childhood middle name as her married middle name instead of her maiden last name.  But that's the only place she uses it.  Everything else is her maiden last name as her middle name - including on her birth certificate.  That supervisor said that seeing the matching DOB on the DL and BC, plus all four names among three pieces of ID was good enough.  I am not sure if that was an official thing, or if the supervisor just decided to clear us because we seemed to be truthful and harmless. 

[njkruzer]

On re-reading OP's posting i note that that they had passports though expired.  I wonder if they had brought them along things might have been different.   Also why not just get expedited renewal.

[Merion_Mom]

Ok, I'll offer up my example of document confusion. In this case, the confusion belonged to the person checking the documents.

 

My traveling companion was Canadian.  We were required to have Brazilian visas in our passports in order to board in Port Canaveral.  When the port agent saw the date in her passport, he misread it, because they write their dates "backwards", i.e., January 4 is 1/4 in the US but 4/1 in most of the rest of the world.  

 

Despite her pointing out that the date was correct, and he was reading it wrong, he tried to keep her from entering the terminal.  Fortunately, someone less provincial was called and let her in.

 

<rolleyes>

[Ferry_Watcher]

7 hours ago, Magicat said:

One time we were almost denied boarding because the immigration officer at the airport stamped our Canadian passports with a C1 visa instead of a B2 visa.  The check in clerk said we were not allowed to board because of this mix up of the CBP officer's mistake.  A supervisor came and checked us in like she was doing something shady.

 A C1 visa is for folks transiting thru the US.  The check-in agent was correct to call attention to the type of visa.  The check-in supervisor knew enough to know that our Canadian neighbors are not given that type of visa.

[Bencruisin]

58 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

On re-reading OP's posting i note that that they had passports though expired.  I wonder if they had brought them along things might have been different.   Also why not just get expedited renewal.

Because we live within 2 hours driving distance of the port we mentioned we could get there and back with our expired passports and was told it wouldn't help.  We didn't try expedited passports because we cruised decades ago using birth certificates and when the idea of cruising came up we confirmed with the Royal booking agent if we could use our BC and the answer was yes but my wife would also need a marriage certificate. I had mentioned we hadn't cruised in quite awhile and aside from covid was there anything else that might have changed we might not like and we were told no. Please don't misconstrue the "has anything changed" question as an attempt to lay the blame at the Royal booking agents feet.  The question was pointed more toward what may have changed onboard.

[Ferry_Watcher]

2 hours ago, Bencruisin said:

and when the idea of cruising came up we confirmed with the Royal booking agent if we could use our BC and the answer was yes but my wife would also need a marriage certificate.

 

I think any time someone in the travel business is asked this question there is an automatic assumption that the individual is an American born person.  No one is thinking Puerto Rico (born prior to 2010), or a naturalized US citizen, or an adopted child from a foreign country.  They may all be red, white and blue US citizens, but their original birth certificates will not be enough to get them on a closed loop cruise.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

On 8/3/2022 at 7:35 PM, Bencruisin said:

I really feel for anyone who may not have had travel insurance.  At least I'll recoup most of it.

 

The reason for the post was ..... I've been wondering about other people who had a similar experience who had no travel insurance.  Are they really out all that money just like that?  Because of a honest mistake like a PR BC?  That's a lot of money!  And they were stranded.  In our case my grandkids luggage didn't show up along with some others who were denied boarding. Again we were the lucky ones....we live within a couple hours of the terminal.

 

I've run into two other recent denied boarding stories that look like the customer isn't going to recoup anything other than the taxes and fees.

 

I wonder how often this happens.

I remember PR stopping issuing certified birth certificates when they discovered too many same names being requested.  They were needed to prove the right to vote, for a voter Id when those laws were in turmoil.  I never saw what happened afterwards and even knowing the history I never heard the solution. 
 

for what it is worth, at that time there was a bit of a mess with the military kids born overseas trying to deal with foreign birth certificates or at least places of birth.  Apparently there’s a method to get a us passport but it was having glitches too.

 

sorry to hear you got caught in a newish law that wasn’t on your radar. 
 

 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:30 AM, Ferry_Watcher said:

Shore side staff will make every attempt to get the luggage of a denied passenger off the ship before it sails.  Sometimes it takes a bit of time and the luggage is the last thing off the ship before it leaves;  sometimes it sails on the ship without the passenger.

 

My personal wish is that the cruise lines did a better job spelling out what travel documents are needed for closed loop sailings, especially for our foreign guests. If a guest books an Alaskan cruise and enters that they have a passport from say India, Columbia or South Africa, there should be an automatic pause on the booking stating that a Canadian visa is needed, or the passenger will be denied boarding in Seattle.  I think the more info the cruise lines can give to passengers, the better experience the cruise will be (although I do know that many folks ignore email updates from the cruise lines).

 

It's all unfortunate and sad.

im not sure I’ve ever specified my passport country before booking. I usually have to fill it out afterwards at checkin if not before. 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:08 PM, rudeney said:

That's is true, and the dropdown defaults to USA.  Maybe they need to change the option it the dropdown to "United States (lower 48 + AK + HI)."  And in this case, I think the OP's wife lives in the "mainland" USA so it might have been even more confusing.  My thought was just to leverage technology to try to let people know that they may need some extra details for their cruise.  I am sure this is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. 

Shouldnt there then be a USA/DC too?

[Bencruisin]

The end of the original story:

After failing for months to get a cash refund instead of a discounted cruise credit we had a family meeting.  Everyone agreed that the cruise credit was too much money to leave on the table, that the covid rules were not nearly as intrusive as they had been and that we would all have passports this time. I verified everything we were told whether I had proof or not and spent countless hours educating myself by reading everything on the web site and everything I was sent. I did run into contradicting information between what was on the Royal web site, what I was told and documents/emails we were sent related to how the cruise credits could be used.  Knowing that Royal will enforce whatever rule they please when there is contradicting information I made the decision to expect the least desirable outcome and was not disappointed. We booked a 7 day Caribbean cruise on Harmony Of The Seas and again took out travel insurance.

 

The 8 of us had a good time. Especially the 4 and 8 year old who had never been on a cruise. There were some issues but they were minor until the day we disembarked.

 

The day we disembarked some luggage got lost.  Several of us felt "off" and we chalked it up to partying hard the night before. We had to wait a couple hours for the missing luggage and got charged for an additional day of parking ($30?) when we ended up missing the time we had to be out of the parking garage to not be charged for an additional day. I didn't bother trying to rectify this.  The day after we got home WE ALL TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID and the Facebook site for this cruise was filled with others who tested positive the day they disembarked or a day or two after returning. My wife and I hadn't got covid till then.

 

After decades of cruising we've decided to steer clear from now on.

[katiel53]

On 8/3/2022 at 7:11 PM, Bencruisin said:

That's exactly what I'm doing.  I had travel insurance so I'm not expecting to be out that much.

I'm sure you have checked your insurance to see if you have a valid claim.  I know that most insurance companies don't cover not having the proper boarding docs as that is the cruiser's responsibility.  As far as the RC agent's not telling you about the Puerto Rican birth certificates, I feel she/he answered your question as to the acceptability of a birth certificate.  I would not expect the agent to discuss Puerto Rican regulations. 

 

I'm sorry you were denied boarding and posting on here may help others even if not you.