This is not a Viking review…

[rizello]

We just returned from the Grand European river cruise (I know, this is an oceans forum!)  We had a similar experience on the river cruise:  started hearing coughing from some folks, and over the course of the two weeks started hearing more and more.

 

We wore masks (KN395) on buses and on indoor tours, being part of the small percentage that did. We also tested ourselves before we left on our trip.  However, on a river cruise, quarters are much tighter and no room to spread out.  We are now one of those that got Covid as a result of a cruise.  Luckily, cases mild for both of us.

 

I figure getting Covid is just the price to pay now for being out and about in the world.  (Although I was hoping to continue my membership in the 'never had Covid' club.)

[SempreMare]

11 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

No one masked, people sneezing and coughing everywhere.  

 

I put it down to you can do all the right things and still get it - and I still do believe that masking and hand hygiene are necessary.

 

Agreed.
 

I do 3 things that have worked so far for me while on 2 amazing but "densely populated"  2 week+ land vacations in the past year: 

- Dubai Expo (World's Fair) Dec 2021: 
Many masked, many didn't.  At the Expo it was 50-50.  At the Grosvenor hotel, 100% thanks to policy.

-  Amsterdam / Netherlands April 22 -  including King's Day and the peak of Keukenhof (the Disney World of Tulip festivals) and Floriade (a once every 10 yr festival) 

 As you can see in the collage, I was literally the ONLY person to mask amongst THOUSANDS not masking on King's Day (the really crowded pics in Amsterdam and Utrecht).  The Dutch are so chill.  No one cared that I was wearing a mask!  They were just happy to say Hi and talk! 

 

I'm 1 of 89,000 people enrolled in the TexasCARES antibody response study.  I receive a text message then get blood drawn every 3 months.  

 

So far, my blood tests: 
N-antibody negative (antibodies made in response to natural infection.  So I've never had Covid.) 
S-antibody positive (antibodies made in response  to vaccine / booster)

 

I do 3 things : 

1) Wear Powecom KN95s as they give me the best fit + comfort.  
I love how transparent the parent distributor company (BonaFideMasks)  is with data, standards, etc.,  

 

2)  Practice basic hand hygiene

Wet Ones singles after grocery store  / crowded places, hand wash when arriving home.

 

3)  Sniff oregano oil before going in crowds.    I keep 1 in my car, 1 in my purse, 1 in backpack. 

It's not been tested vs Covid specifically, but you can skim PUBMED studies of oregano oil vs other viruses and bacteria.  

 

These things don't seem like a big deal anymore.  Just a part of life. 

 

ALL that said, I do expect to get Covid on my September British Isles Explorer cruise.  Because... 

 

Like the doctor on TWIV (or a diff pod) said,

"If someone starts a camp fire in a poorly ventilated room, you are going to smell the embers sooner or later, even if you are wearing a mask."   

Then he made his main point: room / building ventilation is as important as masking

 

Has Viking improved the ventilation on its ships?  

Edited August 20, 2022 by SempreMare

[JollyJacqTar]

We cancelled two cruises we had booked (mostly) because of this. We don’t want to quarantine and miss out on our holiday, but equally we don’t want to be spreading any viruses we may have to others. A Viking cruise is a huge chunk of our holiday budget and we prefer at the moment so spend it on more lower cost, lower risk of falling ill options. I am continuing to follow the threads pertaining to this topic as I’d dearly love to go on another Viking Cruise but I don’t see things changing anytime soon 😞

[Haqdeluxe]

9 hours ago, SempreMare said:

Like the doctor on TWIV (or a diff pod) said,

"If someone starts a camp fire in a poorly ventilated room, you are going to smell the embers sooner or later, even if you are wearing a mask."   

Then he made his main point: room / building ventilation is as important as masking

 

Has Viking improved the ventilation on its ships?  

Viking put significant attention on upgrading and improving filtration and ventilation on their ships as part of their Covid-19 response. 

[CDNPolar]

10 hours ago, SempreMare said:

 

 

Has Viking improved the ventilation on its ships?  

I don't think that this is an improvement, BUT every Viking Stateroom has its own HVAC unit and does not share or draw air from other parts of the ship or other Staterooms.  This is one thing that makes us feel comfortable in our Viking Stateroom.

[Haqdeluxe]

7 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

I don't think that this is an improvement, BUT every Viking Stateroom has its own HVAC unit and does not share or draw air from other parts of the ship or other Staterooms.  This is one thing that makes us feel comfortable in our Viking Stateroom.

You mean until you open your cabin door🚪. 😁  

[TayanaLorna]

14 hours ago, rizello said:

We just returned from the Grand European river cruise (I know, this is an oceans forum!)  We had a similar experience on the river cruise:  started hearing coughing from some folks, and over the course of the two weeks started hearing more and more.

 

We wore masks (KN395) on buses and on indoor tours, being part of the small percentage that did. We also tested ourselves before we left on our trip.  However, on a river cruise, quarters are much tighter and no room to spread out.  We are now one of those that got Covid as a result of a cruise.  Luckily, cases mild for both of us.

 

I figure getting Covid is just the price to pay now for being out and about in the world.  (Although I was hoping to continue my membership in the 'never had Covid' club.)

All experiences are informative.  Love the Ocean cruise ships and was going to schedule our first River until i began reading about the ships and people's experiences.  I don't like the lack of 2 people dining tables and being forced to sit with 4 to 8 other people, don't like the lounge being the venue for lectures, port talks and entertainment with no where else to get away from crowds but the top deck, and i don't like having to pay so much more for a balcony room.  Still too risky for me given no testing or masking.

[TayanaLorna]

1 hour ago, Haqdeluxe said:

You mean until you open your cabin door🚪. 😁  

Well yes but the air does not woosh quickly into the stateroom unless the balcony door is open.  And i don't think the 2 seconds we have the door open to exit allows an excess of virus to enter.  Not something i worry about.

 

Viking has those sanitizing robots go through all the public spaces onboard.  I've been known to do laundry at 4 am and go down to the Living Room Bar at 5:30 am waiting for the barrista and have seen them.

[Mich3554]

21 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

All experiences are informative.  Love the Ocean cruise ships and was going to schedule our first River until i began reading about the ships and people's experiences.  I don't like the lack of 2 people dining tables and being forced to sit with 4 to 8 other people, don't like the lounge being the venue for lectures, port talks and entertainment with no where else to get away from crowds but the top deck, and i don't like having to pay so much more for a balcony room.  Still too risky for me given no testing or masking.

We recently did our first river cruise this past spring.  We had a balcony suite (courtesy of the 125% voucher) but we never used the balcony.  The big perk for us was the free laundry.  
There are other seating areas other than the lounge.  However, a few afternoons I took my kindle to the lounge and watched the world go by….just like on ocean cruises.  It wasn’t noisy or packed, other than for port talks before dinner.

The Aquavit terrace has 2 seated tables for meals.  DH and I also ate at the end of a long table.  There was no need to communicate with others if we did not want to.  We did go with 3 other people, so most times we ate with dinner them.  
Our cruise was April/May, the Grand European.  It happened before testing and masks were dropped.   

[CCWineLover]

4 hours ago, Mich3554 said:

We recently did our first river cruise this past spring.  We had a balcony suite (courtesy of the 125% voucher) but we never used the balcony.  The big perk for us was the free laundry.  
There are other seating areas other than the lounge.  However, a few afternoons I took my kindle to the lounge and watched the world go by….just like on ocean cruises.  It wasn’t noisy or packed, other than for port talks before dinner.

The Aquavit terrace has 2 seated tables for meals.  DH and I also ate at the end of a long table.  There was no need to communicate with others if we did not want to.  We did go with 3 other people, so most times we ate with dinner them.  
Our cruise was April/May, the Grand European.  It happened before testing and masks were dropped.   

Michelle and Lorna -

We also did a river cruise end April/early May (Rhine River).  They were still testing and pulled people out of dinner off the ship to quarantine.  Scary.  But personally I think it is more scary now with all the people selfishly coughing, hacking, and spreading their sicknesses everywhere.

We did not like the dining arrangements on River Cruises.  The Dining Room was always packed on our cruise so there was no place to sit "by yourself" at end of a large table.  As such we sat in the Aquavit Lounge all the time - fortunately found 2 people from California who felt the way we did (being safe) and ate with them almost entirely.  We started with 172 and ended with 154.   Our lounge was moderately full during the day and packed at port talks and before dinner, as well as the after dinner bar crowd.  Was just too much for us.  Won't be going on a river cruise for a long time, if again.  Just not enough places to spread out, but everyone has their own opinions.

 

We so much have enjoyed the ocean ships instead during COVID.  The last one, post masking, post testing, however, was probably more tense due to passenger behavior, but we were able to find lots of places away from people and be "safer" - avoided the Star Theatre like the plague, as well as the bars and The Restaurant.  And stayed healthy.

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, TayanaLorna said:

We always carried the little sanitizer bottle found in our stateroom and used it after every time we returned from the buffet.  I carried it on my person most of the time because i liked to use the stairs but must hold on to the rail.  I would use the stairs, open the doors, find my seat wherever then sit and use the sanitizer. Does Viking still provide bottles in the room?

 

This is our first cruise since Viking dropped the Covid protocols so we are a bit uneasy and planning ahead of time how to protect ourselves.

Yes, just returned and they had the sanitizer sprays in the rooms. 

[eddieg07410]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:50 PM, FlyerTalker said:

A couple of quick points:

 

1) The fact that it says KN95 does not mean that it was made in China, just as N95 does not mean that it was made in the USA.  What those designations mean is that the mask meets the KN95 or N95 FILTRATION STANDARD (however it is designated).  It does not specify the design or sizing or straps or other aspects.  So if Lorna doesn't like a particular N95 strap design, that doesn't mean all N95s have the same.

 

2) Just because it states "N95" or "KN95" or whatever on the mask, it doesn't mean that it actually meets that standard.  It merely means that the manufacturer says it does.  Just as there are counterfeit auto parts, counterfeit drugs and more, there are also counterfeit masks out there.  So you are trusting the veracity of both the manufacturer and the retailer, to say nothing of the "testing" company that ostensibly tested the masks to standard.  You might want to ask yourself why some companies sell masks for significantly less, or more, than the mass of other retailers.

 

Caveat emptor

The only thing I think I might miss on the boat are the lectures on the ports. Are these available to watch in your cabin. If that's so my contingency plans should work for everything. It might be worthwhile attracting a subcategory on the roll, titled "Maskers", and let those who are serious about covid get in contact with one another. These are the people ou might want to have your meals with and go on excursions with. Might work for every toll call.

[formernuke]

Yes port talks are available on the stateroom TV

[SempreMare]

53 minutes ago, eddieg07410 said:

It might be worthwhile attracting a subcategory on the roll, titled "Maskers", and let those who are serious about covid get in contact with one another. These are the people you might want to have your meals with and go on excursions with. 

 

What a great idea @eddieg07410 !   That probably implies a lot of other 'life view' adjacencies as well. 

 

I enjoy friends with differing opinions.   Ex - I enjoy marksmanship, occasionally compete (bowling pins),  teach 1-1, have a LTC, etc.  100% of my closest friends are against it,  but they still are my buddies.  But if they were racist, anti-semitic, etc they would not be my buddies.  Choosing to mask when in public seems to be another one of those things for whatever reason.

 

Darn, I wish I had done @eddieg07410's idea  before booking all my excursions on Sept British Isles Explorer trip! 

 

Last time I was challenged on why I was wearing a mask inside a Batteries Plus store here in Austin, TX, my answer was, "I just look cuter with a mask on."  

Edited August 22, 2022 by SempreMare

[TayanaLorna]

1 hour ago, eddieg07410 said:

The only thing I think I might miss on the boat are the lectures on the ports. Are these available to watch in your cabin. If that's so my contingency plans should work for everything. It might be worthwhile attracting a subcategory on the roll, titled "Maskers", and let those who are serious about covid get in contact with one another. These are the people ou might want to have your meals with and go on excursions with. Might work for every toll call.

Port talks are available in the evening on your TV.  Plus the Star Theater evening performances were live on in the stateroom.  At least they were on our last cruise.

 

Although our last cruise was during all the Covid safety measures, people on our roll call talked about how they planned to isolate themselves for the two weeks prior and said they were masking all the time where they lived even if they didn't have to.  So yes, we knew who we wanted to hang with.

[CCWineLover]

38 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

Port talks are available in the evening on your TV.  Plus the Star Theater evening performances were live on in the stateroom.  At least they were on our last cruise.

 

Although our last cruise was during all the Covid safety measures, people on our roll call talked about how they planned to isolate themselves for the two weeks prior and said they were masking all the time where they lived even if they didn't have to.  So yes, we knew who we wanted to hang with.

Lorna-

yes they all are still in Tv.  Lots put on there which is great!  3 cruises in 2022 and we’ve never gone to the Star Theater!!  The hotbed of Covid!

that along with washing our hands diligently after every visit to the food at World Cafe, I attribute to our remaining members of the no Covid club!

[Traveler145]

This has been a very useful thread for me.  We are scheduled for our first Viking cruise -- Viking Shores and Fjords -- which departs Amsterdam on September 30.  At the time we signed up, we felt very reassured by all of Viking's anti-Covid measures, including  pre-board testing, daily testing and requiring masks.  Given the reports of unmasked passengers and Covid spreading on board, we have to decide whether to cancel the cruise.

If we do not cancel, we intend to limit our contact with other passengers by avoiding bus excursions, only participating in excursions that take place outdoors and then mostly on our own, and avoiding the theatre and spa. We also had planned to avoid eating at the self-serve World Cafe, until I read the comments that washing your hands between obtaining your food and consuming it made the World Cafe a safer option, and that The Restaurant should be avoided.  Is that because of the greater opportunity for social distancing in the World Cafe and the possibility of eating outdoors?  If the concern is crowding in The Restaurant, does that also make Manfredi's and the Chef's Table unsafe options?  I was hoping that, once on board, we would be able to find out whether socially distant dining was possible in the specialty restaurants.

I also hope that, given the reports of Covid on board, Viking will reinstate some of their precautions, at the very least pre-board testing.  Thanks for this thread.

 

[TayanaLorna]

11 hours ago, CCWineLover said:

Lorna-

yes they all are still in Tv.  Lots put on there which is great!  3 cruises in 2022 and we’ve never gone to the Star Theater!!  The hotbed of Covid!

that along with washing our hands diligently after every visit to the food at World Cafe, I attribute to our remaining members of the no Covid club!

Agreed about the Star Theatre for sure Kent.  Only time we went there was if our meet point for an excursion was in the ST.  I went there for a couple of lectures but was able to sit in the peanut gallery far from others and everyone had to mask anyways.

[dd57]

51 minutes ago, Traveler145 said:

This has been a very useful thread for me.  We are scheduled for our first Viking cruise -- Viking Shores and Fjords -- which departs Amsterdam on September 30.  At the time we signed up, we felt very reassured by all of Viking's anti-Covid measures, including  pre-board testing, daily testing and requiring masks.  Given the reports of unmasked passengers and Covid spreading on board, we have to decide whether to cancel the cruise.

If we do not cancel, we intend to limit our contact with other passengers by avoiding bus excursions, only participating in excursions that take place outdoors and then mostly on our own, and avoiding the theatre and spa. We also had planned to avoid eating at the self-serve World Cafe, until I read the comments that washing your hands between obtaining your food and consuming it made the World Cafe a safer option, and that The Restaurant should be avoided.  Is that because of the greater opportunity for social distancing in the World Cafe and the possibility of eating outdoors?  If the concern is crowding in The Restaurant, does that also make Manfredi's and the Chef's Table unsafe options?  I was hoping that, once on board, we would be able to find out whether socially distant dining was possible in the specialty restaurants.

I also hope that, given the reports of Covid on board, Viking will reinstate some of their precautions, at the very least pre-board testing.  Thanks for this thread.

 

We just ate at Chef's Table last night.  We arrived just before 6:00 for our reservation and so were seated next to the windows.  The tables there are fairly well spread out; I didn't pay attention to the layout in the rest of the room.  As they seated people, they used every other table.  By the time we left at 7:30, most of the tables were full.  

[TayanaLorna]

3 minutes ago, dd57 said:

We just ate at Chef's Table last night.  We arrived just before 6:00 for our reservation and so were seated next to the windows.  The tables there are fairly well spread out; I didn't pay attention to the layout in the rest of the room.  As they seated people, they used every other table.  By the time we left at 7:30, most of the tables were full.  

We found the tables for 2 were along or near the windows and along the far wall.  The 4's and 6's were more in the center.  As i recall the table service restaurants were most busy between 7 and 8 pm.

[TayanaLorna]

1 hour ago, Traveler145 said:

This has been a very useful thread for me.  We are scheduled for our first Viking cruise -- Viking Shores and Fjords -- which departs Amsterdam on September 30.  At the time we signed up, we felt very reassured by all of Viking's anti-Covid measures, including  pre-board testing, daily testing and requiring masks.  Given the reports of unmasked passengers and Covid spreading on board, we have to decide whether to cancel the cruise.

If we do not cancel, we intend to limit our contact with other passengers by avoiding bus excursions, only participating in excursions that take place outdoors and then mostly on our own, and avoiding the theatre and spa. We also had planned to avoid eating at the self-serve World Cafe, until I read the comments that washing your hands between obtaining your food and consuming it made the World Cafe a safer option, and that The Restaurant should be avoided.  Is that because of the greater opportunity for social distancing in the World Cafe and the possibility of eating outdoors?  If the concern is crowding in The Restaurant, does that also make Manfredi's and the Chef's Table unsafe options?  I was hoping that, once on board, we would be able to find out whether socially distant dining was possible in the specialty restaurants.

I also hope that, given the reports of Covid on board, Viking will reinstate some of their precautions, at the very least pre-board testing.  Thanks for this thread.

 

Hope you have a safe trip.  Look forward to your report.

 

This board began as statement about undesirable passenger habits but evolved into one about how we might protect ourselves against them.  I too appreciate the comments and suggestions as we are a bit uneasy about taking our first cruise since the safety protocols were dropped.

[DGHOC]

Reading this thread has just confirmed my thoughts on the selfishness, self interest and disregard of some. This subject has been debated here many times, I've sometimes read comments with total disbelief.

 

Once it was established that masks were essential to the C fight, the Gov message here in the UK re C, was to request that the public should wear a mask to protect others more vulnerable. After a while it became apparent that some folk were only interested in themselves and C denying. The Gov message was subtly changed, 'wear a mask to protect yourselves and others' - more folk then began to wear them. Then it was made law, though travelling on the London tube network displayed how some didn't give two hoots for anyone else. Thankfully this subject was never politicised in the UK.

 

Our recent V cruise was the last before daily testing was ended. Many passengers continued wearing masks around the ship, as did we, though it wasn't compulsory. I didn't see any 'attacks' on those who were still wearing them, my word we would have had something to say if we had. The daily testing was hugely reassuring in that we could sit next to folk at dinner without second guessing the whole time. We saw no-one coughing the entire time on the ship although some passengers were found to be infected and subsequently isolated.

 

We both caught C on the flight home to London. Mask wearing wasn't compulsory on the plane and a great many passengers were openly coughing and seemingly unwell. We double masked and hoped for the best but we both tested positive three days later. We made the enormous mistake of unhooking our masks for seconds to blow our noses to clear ear pressure, we're convinced that was all it took. Confined space with 90% unmasked, we didn't stand a chance.

 

I'm awfully glad I don't have a V cruise booked until June next year. If I was forced to take one now, I'd call the restaurant managers in the restaurants and request a table removed from other diners and keep my mask on until ready to eat. In the World Cafe I'd sit outside or away from others as much as poss. We wore masks unless eating and drinking. Yep it was a pain in the butt BUT it kept us safer and helped keep others safer too. A great many of us fall into the vulnerable category, albeit by age, but a great many of us are immunosuppressed or compromised too. Disability is not always visible, we should consider those sitting around us.

 

My two pennies worth of advice would be to wear the best grade medical masks you can get your hands on, (as suggested by my surgeon buddies who are flabbergasted at the mask deniers), and keep your distance as much as poss. The flights are a festering petrie dish so double mask and don't eat or drink or do as we did, blow your nose!

 

None of us know what this winter will bring but I truly hope that if necessary V will reinstate their very sensible and effective C protocols. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim Avery]

On 8/19/2022 at 8:17 PM, SempreMare said:

 

Agreed.
 

I do 3 things that have worked so far for me while on 2 amazing but "densely populated"  2 week+ land vacations in the past year: 

- Dubai Expo (World's Fair) Dec 2021: 
Many masked, many didn't.  At the Expo it was 50-50.  At the Grosvenor hotel, 100% thanks to policy.

-  Amsterdam / Netherlands April 22 -  including King's Day and the peak of Keukenhof (the Disney World of Tulip festivals) and Floriade (a once every 10 yr festival) 

 As you can see in the collage, I was literally the ONLY person to mask amongst THOUSANDS not masking on King's Day (the really crowded pics in Amsterdam and Utrecht).  The Dutch are so chill.  No one cared that I was wearing a mask!  They were just happy to say Hi and talk! 

 

I'm 1 of 89,000 people enrolled in the TexasCARES antibody response study.  I receive a text message then get blood drawn every 3 months.  

 

So far, my blood tests: 
N-antibody negative (antibodies made in response to natural infection.  So I've never had Covid.) 
S-antibody positive (antibodies made in response  to vaccine / booster)

 

I do 3 things : 

1) Wear Powecom KN95s as they give me the best fit + comfort.  
I love how transparent the parent distributor company (BonaFideMasks)  is with data, standards, etc.,  

 

2)  Practice basic hand hygiene

Wet Ones singles after grocery store  / crowded places, hand wash when arriving home.

 

3)  Sniff oregano oil before going in crowds.    I keep 1 in my car, 1 in my purse, 1 in backpack. 

It's not been tested vs Covid specifically, but you can skim PUBMED studies of oregano oil vs other viruses and bacteria.  

 

These things don't seem like a big deal anymore.  Just a part of life. 

 

ALL that said, I do expect to get Covid on my September British Isles Explorer cruise.  Because... 

 

Like the doctor on TWIV (or a diff pod) said,

"If someone starts a camp fire in a poorly ventilated room, you are going to smell the embers sooner or later, even if you are wearing a mask."   

Then he made his main point: room / building ventilation is as important as masking

 

Has Viking improved the ventilation on its ships?  

Oregano oil.  Now that's a new one.  I love oregano so will give it a go.  Does it make you smell like a pizza???🍺

[Jim Avery]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:30 AM, CDNPolar said:

I don't think that this is an improvement, BUT every Viking Stateroom has its own HVAC unit and does not share or draw air from other parts of the ship or other Staterooms.  This is one thing that makes us feel comfortable in our Viking Stateroom.

Sorry, but they only have individual air handlers.  Air comes (and goes) through a common duct.  It would be totally impractical for each cabin to have its own dedicated ductwork.   The individual air handlers give the cabin occupant the ability to set temps, on/off, and fan speeds.  There is a filter in the air return for each cabin but each section of the hotel has its own air ducts.  Not sure exactly how many cabins share a duct in each section nor can I tell the frequency of cleaning/changing  air handler filters.

[donaldsc]

3 hours ago, Traveler145 said:

This has been a very useful thread for me.  We are scheduled for our first Viking cruise -- Viking Shores and Fjords -- which departs Amsterdam on September 30.  At the time we signed up, we felt very reassured by all of Viking's anti-Covid measures, including  pre-board testing, daily testing and requiring masks.  Given the reports of unmasked passengers and Covid spreading on board, we have to decide whether to cancel the cruise.

If we do not cancel, we intend to limit our contact with other passengers by avoiding bus excursions, only participating in excursions that take place outdoors and then mostly on our own, and avoiding the theatre and spa. We also had planned to avoid eating at the self-serve World Cafe, until I read the comments that washing your hands between obtaining your food and consuming it made the World Cafe a safer option, and that The Restaurant should be avoided.  Is that because of the greater opportunity for social distancing in the World Cafe and the possibility of eating outdoors?  If the concern is crowding in The Restaurant, does that also make Manfredi's and the Chef's Table unsafe options?  I was hoping that, once on board, we would be able to find out whether socially distant dining was possible in the specialty restaurants.

I also hope that, given the reports of Covid on board, Viking will reinstate some of their precautions, at the very least pre-board testing.  Thanks for this thread.

 

 

My thoughts on what you are planning to do is that if you follow your plan the cruise is not going to be much fun.  Why bother.

 

DON