Mardi Gras, One and done for us.

[CruizinSusan70]

On 10/19/2022 at 12:17 PM, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I sincerely hope the industry moves away from the floating mall concept. Or at minimum, keeps bringing open design options online (more sea, sky, sunshine views and fresh air). The Prima class has some interesting features but I think the speedway is a waste of space and a low capacity entertainment option (much like wave rider/rock wall on RCI). I also dislike the ship-within-a-ship concept all together, if it's so awesome then make it ship wide so everyone can have a better experience and more space. I'd rather they charge a bit more to aggregate the cost and improve space ratios and experience on board for everyone; the ship-within-a-ship is a race-to-the-bottom trick that makes everyone end up with less space in the end. It's designed to make you think that without coach there would be no first class, but the reality is that without first class there would be no coach. 

The ship within a ship concept is currently on all new builds by NCL, MSC, RCI, Carnival, Celebrity and Princess.  So, you're stuck with Holland America, Virgin or Disney.

It only takes up a portion of the real estate and if eliminated would cause the overall price to go up for everyone because of the elimination of the substantially higher rates that are generated for these cabins.  Because of this revenue, these cabins are not going away soon.

MSC is coming out with Explora journeys, which is an entire ship similar to their Yacht Club. 

Regarding open space options, I mentioned the Prima, which has more open space designs than anything else in their fleet as well as the fleets of Carnival, RCI or MSC. But, you decide to pinpoint their race car track as a negative.  The open space concept of Ocean Blvd on the Prima Class should supercede any negative that the speed track brings.

[cruisingguy007]

12 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

l price to go up for everyone because of the elimination of the substantially higher rates that are generated for these cabins.

 

And I'm OK with that, in aggregate it wouldn't be much. I'd prefer they design ships and not sections of separation that lead to everyone having smaller spaces. Just my preference and If I can avoid it I will. I can understand various cabin categories, just not exclusive areas in public spaces. I actually preferred Carnival because they didn't do this but they are also going down this path unfortunately. Hopefully some of the older ships stick around for a while.    

[BlerkOne]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

 

It only takes up a portion of the real estate and if eliminated would cause the overall price to go up for everyone because of the elimination of the substantially higher rates that are generated for these cabins.  Because of this revenue, these cabins are not going away soon.

 

Saying it so doesn't make it true.

 

Some of the prime real estate in Celebration is on sale (this is for 2 weeks/14 days)

 

Limited Time 50th Birthday Pricing for Cabanas on Loft 19

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Cabanas on Loft 19

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[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Ocean Blvd on the Prima Class should supercede any negative that the speed track brings.

 Ocean Blvd is cool but doesn't got anything on the Icon of the seas that RCI is putting out, that is the best open concept I've seen so far. But again, like the race car track, some of the attractions are low capacity affairs that will lead to lines and I don't consider that the best use of space when you have many thousands of passengers. High capacity entertainment that keeps things moving/flowing is a better choice. I do like their open concept the best so far and I'd double down on that and have like three levels of that awesomeness. Too bad they have returned to the class system and just can't make a great ship like that for all to enjoy. Interesting concept though. 

[CruizinSusan70]

41 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Saying it so doesn't make it true.

 

Some of the prime real estate in Celebration is on sale (this is for 2 weeks/14 days)

 

Limited Time 50th Birthday Pricing for Cabanas on Loft 19

book your private Cabana on Loft 19 for the entire voyage at a special price! Hurry, only a few are available!

 

Cabanas on Loft 19

50th Birthday Promo

$2,250.00 / Cabana

 

5 guests limit per cabana

 Full Cruise

No Minimum Age

Carnival doesn't have a true Ship within a ship concept as opposed to their competition at NCL, MSC, RCI, Celebrity and Princess on their new Sphere Class.  The Loft 19 area and the Havana area take up space, cost extra for exclusivity, but there are no private restaurants and other perks that go along with it like all of their competition.  The fact that the celebration is having a sale on Loft 19 cabanas has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

[CruizinSusan70]

4 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 Ocean Blvd is cool but doesn't got anything on the Icon of the seas that RCI is putting out, that is the best open concept I've seen so far. But again, like the race car track, some of the attractions are low capacity affairs that will lead to lines and I don't consider that the best use of space when you have many thousands of passengers. High capacity entertainment that keeps things moving/flowing is a better choice. I do like their open concept the best so far and I'd double down on that and have like three levels of that awesomeness. Too bad they have returned to the class system and just can't make a great ship like that for all to enjoy. Interesting concept though. 

Well, at only 3100 passengers and 142.5 K tons the lines  should not be too bad since that's about 55% of the Excel Class capacity at 6000 passengers and 180 K tons.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

Carnival doesn't have a true Ship within a ship concept as opposed to their competition at NCL, MSC, RCI, Celebrity and Princess on their new Sphere Class.  The Loft 19 area and the Havana area take up space, cost extra for exclusivity, but there are no private restaurants and other perks that go along with it like all of their competition.  The fact that the celebration is having a sale on Loft 19 cabanas has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

Uh huh.You forgot Dream cruises which went bankrupt partly because of the concept.

 

The price of exclusivity will increase to more than people are willing to pay and those with money to burn will figure out they can cruise on true luxury lines for less.

 

[cruisingguy007]

18 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The price of exclusivity will increase to more than people are willing to pay and those with money to burn will figure out they can cruise on true luxury lines for less.

 

Exactly right! Concur 100%. 

[CruizinSusan70]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Uh huh.You forgot Dream cruises which went bankrupt partly because of the concept.

 

The price of exclusivity will increase to more than people are willing to pay and those with money to burn will figure out they can cruise on true luxury lines for less.

 

Those that sail in the Haven or the Yacht Club want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want their own area yet they want the entertainment options that the large cruise ships from MSC or NCL provide.  That's why they choose to sail that way instead of on the true luxury lines that do not have the same options entertainment wise.

And Dream cruises was a niche cruise line, unlike all of the others mentioned that are based in the US with the exception of MSC which is expanding here.

[CruizinSusan70]

49 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Exactly right! Concur 100%. 

Have you ever had a conversation with someone that has sailed in the Haven or the Yacht Club?  They want their exclusive area but with all of the entertainment options that large ships can provide.  

[Joe817]

One upmanship never ceases to amaze me. 

[BlerkOne]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

Those that sail in the Haven or the Yacht Club want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want their own area yet they want the entertainment options that the large cruise ships from MSC or NCL provide.  That's why they choose to sail that way instead of on the true luxury lines that do not have the same options entertainment wise.

And Dream cruises was a niche cruise line, unlike all of the others mentioned that are based in the US with the exception of MSC which is expanding here.

Your ship within a ship is a niche market and not sustainable. Camelot is an illusion.

[CruizinSusan70]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Your ship within a ship is a niche market and not sustainable. Camelot is an illusion.

It's sustainable for NCL with the Haven for years, as well as MSC with the Yacht Club, the Retreat on Celebrity, and the Star Class on RCI.  

Carnival even has their own value version with the Havana area on the Vista Class and the Havana area and Loft 19 areas on the Excel Class.  The new Sphere Class on Princess will even be coming out with their version on the Sun Princess, which will be similar to the aforementioned lines since they will have their own dedicated restaurant, unlike Carnival.  

It's only illusional in your mind.  It's been around for years and is on every new build from each of the aforementioned lines.  It will even have a much larger presence in the Icon of the Seas, as was announced today.  If it was not sustainable as you claim then it would no longer be on each new build from NCL, MSC, Celebrity, RCI, and Princess.

[BlerkOne]

23 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

It's sustainable for NCL with the Haven for years, as well as MSC with the Yacht Club, the Retreat on Celebrity, and the Star Class on RCI.  

Carnival even has their own value version with the Havana area on the Vista Class and the Havana area and Loft 19 areas on the Excel Class.  The new Sphere Class on Princess will even be coming out with their version on the Sun Princess, which will be similar to the aforementioned lines since they will have their own dedicated restaurant, unlike Carnival.  

It's only illusional in your mind.  It's been around for years and is on every new build from each of the aforementioned lines.  It will even have a much larger presence in the Icon of the Seas, as was announced today.  If it was not sustainable as you claim then it would no longer be on each new build from NCL, MSC, Celebrity, RCI, and Princess.

Time will tell. At least one of those cruise lines will go bankrupt before Carnival.

[KmomChicago]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:26 PM, sanmarcosman said:

Yes and this is why I think the Spirit Class ships could all use a good "Radiancizing." I have been on both the Miracle and the Radiance recently. The same new, sleek design of the public rooms of the Radiance should be used to renovate and refresh all of the Spirit Class ships.

 

THIS!! 100% agree, @sanmarcosman. Carnival Triumph gave us a great experience but looked her age in 2017.  Fast forward to Radiance this past June looking almost brand new, not much different from Vista  which we sailed a few weeks prior and worlds better than Legend which we sailed last Christmas.  I realize Carnival's $$ situation is not great at the moment, but I am not sure Spirit class can take too many more of the scathing reviews I have been seeing, and Radiance proves with a few extra weeks in dry dock they can sail ships worthy of their names.  RCI keeps their ships looking sharp and passengers definitely can see the difference.

[KmomChicago]

On 10/18/2022 at 4:18 PM, cruisemom2 said:

Clearly, I'm in the minority here because we love Mardi Gras and think it's a beautiful ship. December will be our 4th time and we can't wait. We like the Center Stage area a lot and have managed to find seats for the shows we wanted to see - Voodoo Moon is my favorite.

 

We didn't have long wait times for YTD except for the first elegant night for the MDR so after that, we checked in early and never had to wait for more than 10-20 minutes. We're definitely not fans of the MDR on MG but there are so many other options so we're fine with that. Our lunch and dinner Chibang were delicious. The Mexican side of the menu doesn't appeal to me (and ironically I love Mexican) but the Kung Pao Chicken for dinner and stir fry noodle bowl for lunch were both excellent. Cucina was my favorite place for dinner. I've had pasta and chicken parm there several times and it was delicious every time. We were never seated out in front of Bar Della Rosa (and probably wouldn't like it if we were), but we were seated outside the last night of our cruise in March. It was actually nice out there but I did prefer sitting inside as we've done four or five other times. The BBQ filet served on the first night at Pig & Anchor was delicious and our sides were fine that night. Other times we found the food at P&A to be inconsistent but we love the bar there so we usually eat elsewhere other than the first night. Big Chicken, Blue Iguana. Street Eats, Guy's Burgers and the pizza are all hits with us.

 

We thought the steakhouse on MG was just OK. Service was slow and the food wasn't as awesome as I'd remembered it. (We were just on Freedom last week and everything about the steakhouse - food, service and ambiance - was amazing.) Teppanyaki however was fantastic! Emeril's has been a mixed bag for us - food was OK to very good but something has been off every time. In December we have reservations at Teppanyaki and Rudi's. I'm allergic to shellfish so this will be interesting - steak for me.

 

We have not had any issues getting drinks on Mardi Gras - ever. But I think it's all about timing. We like the Red Frog Tiki during the day and usually manage to get seats at the bar. In December the upper RFT was always busy and we had no trouble getting seats at the lower bar. In March it was the other way around. In May, a little of both. If we couldn't get seats at the bar, we sat at a nearby table and ordered a drink there then waited for someone to get up from the bar so we could move over. At night it was surprisingly easy to get seats at Fortune Teller, Brass Magnolia, Center Stage  Bar and even Alchemy.

 

We just booked Celebration for December 2023 because it was over $700 less than the same week in the same cabin type on MG. I know a lot of our favorite crew members on MG will soon be on Celebration, I hope they're still there when we get on. But hopefully since no one likes MG anymore, the prices will drop and we'll get a good deal.  🤣  🤣 🤣

 

Overall our experience matches yours. Of course, unfortunately, my early experience is not representative because we were only about 2/3 full. However I definitely noticed Brass Magnolia was underused and a good place to grab and go a beverage from a non-busy bartender for the atrium shows - not sure if this is still the case.  We also liked the center atrium theatre itself, and they did not even have all the shows going yet but we enjoyed often having a choice between the atrium stage, the main aft theater, and the two punchliner options which spread out the crowds.  

 

Our one dinner in Chibang, one in P&A, and two in Cucina were all better than our one in the MDR which was okay as well.  We never managed to fit in Emeril's and we missed street eats several days because there were just so many other options. Our steakhouse the first night was pretty good but not something I would do all the time, but I can't compare as it's our only Carnival steak house foray. 

 

My biggest gripe about MG was the many dark single stairs on what should be flat or sloping floors and seeing people tripping all over the place and I pictured endless future drunks spraining ankles or going flat on their faces. I think they have added lighting to help with those. 

[KmomChicago]

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Uh huh.You forgot Dream cruises which went bankrupt partly because of the concept.

 

The price of exclusivity will increase to more than people are willing to pay and those with money to burn will figure out they can cruise on true luxury lines for less.

 

 

This is an interesting question. . . yes, certainly those who can afford it can upgrade to "better" cruise lines. However, I think there are a couple of other factors to consider with both the Havana areas and the suites and a reason why I think they were / are both the right ways to go.

 

First, there are people who like Carnival because they just LIKE IT. They are long time cruisers, loyal to the brand, high up in the tiers, and as their tastes and income increase with the rewards of a long life and career, they want the option to upgrade. It may be a relatively small % of passengers but it's an effort to hold on to those who would feel forced out (and up) otherwise, which we all know is happening - we see so many reviewers who are "done with Carnival" whether due to cutbacks, real and perceived, or just outgrowing the brand and getting tired of it, really. Still plenty of rooms in the more affordable range for those who prefer them.

 

Second, there are the family and friends factors.  Carnival sails still, from the most ports, making it convenient to drive for millions of passengers, and still offers, usually, the lowest entry level fares, and the casual and child- as well as all-ages-friendly options and amenities. It's perfect for many groups and to be able to give the choice to go basic or fancy as they prefer.  On my MG sailing, we were in interior rooms to save $$ and yet we had access to just about everything on the ship, certainly everything we wanted, my dad and stepmom stayed in an accessible balcony, and my aunt and uncle stayed in an aft corner suite, because that's the kind of thing they like and they would not have gone at all if they had to crunch into a little standard room.  We were all happy to have gotten what we wanted.

[cruisingguy007]

6 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

Second, there are the family and friends factors.  Carnival sails still, from the most ports, making it convenient to drive for millions of passengers, and still offers, usually, the lowest entry level fares, and the casual and child- as well as all-ages-friendly options and amenities. It's perfect for many groups and to be able to give the choice to go basic or fancy as they prefer.  On my MG sailing, we were in interior rooms to save $$ and yet we had access to just about everything on the ship, certainly everything we wanted, my dad and stepmom stayed in an accessible balcony, and my aunt and uncle stayed in an aft corner suite, because that's the kind of thing they like and they would not have gone at all if they had to crunch into a little standard room.  We were all happy to have gotten what we wanted.

 

This is kind of my point, having various cabin categories I can see, folks can choose from basic to extravagant, it's the privatization of the public areas that I don't care for. It's starts as a drip and then turns into a river. It starts with small areas and then next thing you know, it's dedicated restaurants, dedicated pools, dedicated bars, dedicated lounges ect, basically compartmentalizing the entire ship. It's a terrible idea and makes a mess of everything. Luxury sailing already exists, trying to reinvent the wheel in a half-arsed way only ends up with reduced space for everyone because some don't want to mix with the unwashed masses and want to feel special. It's nuts. Keep all the public places public and go on a luxury cruise if you want exclusivity and stop corrupting the mass market product. It's really a trick and people are falling for it because it gives them a sense of superiority on a budget and everyone ends up with less space in the end. 

 

Another aspect of separation and catering to specific groups is you end up with large sub groups and a dominate passenger makeup. Having your product seen as "a old people cruise" "a child free cruise" ect is not really good in the long run. One of the things I like most about Carnival is the large diversity pool of passengers from all age brackets and backgrounds. It mirrors regular everyday life and makes for a more interesting experience vs boring clusters of non-varying demographics. I think this adds to the fun factor on Carnival ships in a big way. I've met folks of all ages and all backgrounds and enjoy that aspect of their product very much.        

Edited October 21, 2022 by cruisingguy007

[BlerkOne]

Different cabin classes are one thing - dividing the ship by classes into walled cities won't last.

[Knights on the Beach]

10 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

 

Overall our experience matches yours. Of course, unfortunately, my early experience is not representative because we were only about 2/3 full. However I definitely noticed Brass Magnolia was underused and a good place to grab and go a beverage from a non-busy bartender for the atrium shows - not sure if this is still the case.  We also liked the center atrium theatre itself, and they did not even have all the shows going yet but we enjoyed often having a choice between the atrium stage, the main aft theater, and the two punchliner options which spread out the crowds.  

 

 

All three of our cruises on MG were near capacity and yet we still didn't stand in long lines, wait forever for a drink or have long waits for a table with YTD. But we also didn't go to the buffet at peak times, wait until 7:00 pm to check in on the app for dinner (made that mistake only once LOL) or walk up to Center Stage area just a few minutes before the show started and expect to get the best seats, etc. We learned pretty quickly how to work around any issues and it worked well for us.

[CruizinSusan70]

18 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Time will tell. At least one of those cruise lines will go bankrupt before Carnival.

 

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Different cabin classes are one thing - dividing the ship by classes into walled cities won't last.

Every one of Carnivals major competitors have more new builds in their respective pipelines than Carnival.  Carnival has one new build with the Jubilee and 3 retreads from Costa.  It's smart marketing on the corporations part to help out one company that is losing market share with Costa and help another bring new ships into the fleet on the cheap.  

Royal Caribbean Group is in fairly good financial shape between RCI, Celebrity and Silver Sea.  Their new Icon of the Seas has many different positive factors going for it, even though you don't think that the restricted areas for suite guests won't last.  MSC is in the best financial situation and that is why they have double digit ships in their pipeline between MSC and Explora Journeys.

NCL has five Prima Class ships in their pipeline.

 

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

 

Every one of Carnivals major competitors have more new builds in their respective pipelines than Carnival. 

 

and ahead of the curve for both customers and staff. Look for postponement of some of those builds.

[IntrepidFromDC]

10 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Different cabin classes are one thing - dividing the ship by classes into walled cities won't last.

Not sure if you can hear me from down here in steerage, but I hope you're right before we hit an iceberg!

[pc_load_letter]

13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Different cabin classes are one thing - dividing the ship by classes into walled cities won't last.

 

This^

 

We're cruising on NCLs Bliss next month and my wife generally preps everything. I just show up. But I look at pics and read reviews and I have to keep asking....Can we go here? Do I need to pay extra for this?

 

At least on Carnival, I know I can use 99% percent of the ship and not have to worry about special areas. (Only really have seen that on Pano since we've never been on MG)

[MikeandLinda2010]

I was not a fan of the MG.  It is too big. I felt like we were in a hotel instead of on a ship.  I would not go on her again unless she was going to a port I really wanted to go to.  

 

I have been on 34 cruises with Carnival and I guess, I prefer the smaller ships.   

 

Linda