Gratuity on top of Cover Charge

[jagoffee]

3 hours ago, CaroleSS said:

I am well aware of this.......BUT, when the conversation goes like this......

 

me: how much it will cost to upgrade the two of us from classic to premium?
X: it will be $abc for the two of you

me: is that including my Captains Club discount and the gratuity

X: yes

me: ok, that's great

 

and after the phone call, I check my account and I was charged $abc + 18%......yes, I think that is being dishonest. I specifically asked if the charge included the gratuity and was told "yes"......When I called back to ask about the additional charge, I was told that they quote you a price based upon the "first screen", but the gratuity is only added once they put the "items in the cart". I asked why don't they just wait to tell you the price until they add it to the cart. I was told because it is time consuming to go through all those screens to only be told "no".

 

I'm just asking for honesty and transparency. Tell me the "true" cost and I will determine if I want the product or not, but to tell me the cost is one amount and charge me another - and never tell me there is an additional cost isn't appropriate......especially when I specifically asked!

 

 

Great point.  
I just do not think it is Celebrity being dishonest.  Perhaps a poorly trained phone rep?  Or an honest mistake?  Obviously when they give you a price they should always state “plus gratuity”.  That fact is certainly stated everywhere on their website and it is well known.

 

IMO, given your explanation, most people would not be pleased. Worst case, they lied.  Best case they misunderstood the question.  It is hard to imagine that they would not know about the “plus gratuity” for the drink package, the drink package upgrade, or the difference in cost when you purchase a drink over the limit.

 

let’s just hope it was a new hire that was not trained properly.

 

 

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, jelayne said:

The pricing changed 6 months ago.   If you book  in the Cruise Planner it shows the amount of the gratuity before you complete payment, no secret that there is a gratuity added now.  The menus stated a gratuity will be added.  Reservations purchased before the change for dates after the change are honored at the booked rate with no gratuity added.  
Not so subtle to me.

...one subtlety though, where the cruise departs from the UK/Australia (... or NZ?) ... the prices charged include the gratuity on the drink packages and the dining.

[D C]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

... and that remains my concern, as this certainly does nothing to benefit the staff, if the service charge doesn't make its way into their pockets and I would expect that it will have had a significant impact on the number of people leaving additional tips...

If the 'service charge' gratuity didn't make it to the staff, would there be any reasonable expectation that the 'gratuity' would?

[DirtyDawg]

2 hours ago, D C said:

Why? Because they went from gratuity-included to gratuity-added. 

 

Celebrity has previously said that the price is inclusive of a service fee and that additional gratuities were welcome but not required. There have been plenty of dinners where we never received a final bill where we could add to the included tip. 

 

It really has nothing to do with gratuities. It has to do with a subtle price hike. 

I don't think there is anything subtle about adding  "An 18% gratuity is added to Specialty Dining packages at the time of purchase." 

 

It is definitely a change but not very subtle. And it's only a price increase if you didn't tip 18% already. 

[SusieAV8R]

9 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Some of y’all don’t like to tip, got it.  No wonder Celebrity had to make it automatic. 

We generally do tip, but do so voluntarily. However , the definition of a gratuity is "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation, usually for some service."  Therefore a mandatory gratuity is an oxymoron.

[carolina_yankee]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:28 PM, SusieAV8R said:

If it's automatic, it's a fee, not a tip.

Sure, but i don’t care. Staff are compensated with the assumption that gratuities will cover part of their total pay. It has to be gotten one way or another. I would prefer no gratuities expected at all, which, in a sense, this fee or gratuity add-on take care of. In many countries servers do not need gratuities to be give good service.

[Mark_T]

8 hours ago, D C said:

If the 'service charge' gratuity didn't make it to the staff, would there be any reasonable expectation that the 'gratuity' would?

The problem is in the reaction of the guests who were choosing to leave additional tips anyway, who will now either leave less or nothing as they have already had this service charge applied to the bill...

[Kilroyshere]

We're booked and trying X in a Retreat Suite. This tip issue is one factor that will decide if we'll become repeat Retreaters.

 

We understood there would be no mandatory tip charges paying a premium price for a Retreat Suite as advertised on the X website that states Retreat Suite Featured Amenities Included "Tips" with a check mark by it

 

There's no notice on that Retreat feature page that the amenity of Tips Included does NOT apply to some Specialty or other Venues.

 

Am I wrong? 

 

Retreaters being charged 18% in some up-charge venue is a confusing and opaque contradiction from the X Amenities page stating Tips are included.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Kilroyshere

[prmssk]

39 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

We're booked and trying X in a Retreat Suite. This tip issue is one factor that will decide if we'll become repeat Retreaters.

 

We understood there would be no mandatory tip charges paying a premium price for a Retreat Suite as advertised on the X website that states Retreat Suite Featured Amenities Included "Tips" with a check mark by it

 

There's no notice on that Retreat feature page that the amenity of Tips Included does NOT apply to some Specialty or other Venues.

 

Am I wrong? 

 

Retreaters being charged 18% in some up-charge venue is a confusing and opaque contradiction from the X Amenities page stating Tips are included.

I don't think it is reasonable to think that the tips being included within the Retreat would also apply to additional services outside the Retreat that guests choose to purchase (like specialty dining, spa, etc.).

[wrk2cruise]

1 hour ago, Kilroyshere said:

We're booked and trying X in a Retreat Suite. This tip issue is one factor that will decide if we'll become repeat Retreaters.

 

We understood there would be no mandatory tip charges paying a premium price for a Retreat Suite as advertised on the X website that states Retreat Suite Featured Amenities Included "Tips" with a check mark by it

 

There's no notice on that Retreat feature page that the amenity of Tips Included does NOT apply to some Specialty or other Venues.

 

Am I wrong? 

 

Retreaters being charged 18% in some up-charge venue is a confusing and opaque contradiction from the X Amenities page stating Tips are included.

 

If your suite includes complimentary specialty dining then yes the tips for that dining is included.   If not an the specialty dining is purchased separately then the tip will be charged to your bill.

 

If you were to go on a shore excursion with a tour guide of course the tip to the tour guide would not be included because you are in the Retreat as the tour was purchased separately outside the Retreat cruise fare.

[D C]

12 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

I don't think there is anything subtle about adding  "An 18% gratuity is added to Specialty Dining packages at the time of purchase." 

 

It is definitely a change but not very subtle. And it's only a price increase if you didn't tip 18% already. 

That's the thing. You DID tip 18% already, as Celebrity said that service charge was included in the cover charge for the specialty restaurant.  If you DOUBLE tipped before with an extra 18%, then you're only single tipping now. 

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, Kilroyshere said:

Am I wrong? 

Yes, completely. It should be obvious to you that any additional upcharges are subject to gratuities. 

[Kilroyshere]

24 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

If your suite includes complimentary specialty dining then yes the tips for that dining is included.   If not an the specialty dining is purchased separately then the tip will be charged to your bill.

 

If you were to go on a shore excursion with a tour guide of course the tip to the tour guide would not be included because you are in the Retreat as the tour was purchased separately outside the Retreat cruise fare.

So it seems there are Retreat suites that include specialty dining with no up-charge nor tips and, Retreat suites that don't include specialty dining included.

 

How many cabin classes does X have?

• Retreat with specialty dining no charge
• Retreat without specialty dining with up-charge and 18% "tip"
• Aqua
• Concierge
• Basic

 

Tipping is IMO a non-mandatory service that ought be earned, appreciated and gratefully given, such as tipping your tour guide as you mention.

 

A mandatory "tip" charge is not a tip. It's another fee IMO. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

5 hours ago, Mark_T said:

The problem is in the reaction of the guests who were choosing to leave additional tips anyway, who will now either leave less or nothing as they have already had this service charge applied to the bill...

 

I'm not sure I see a problem.  The system has changed.  If the guest doesn't read the bill before leaving any additional tip, that's on the guest.

[prmssk]

22 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

So it seems there are Retreat suites that include specialty dining with no up-charge nor tips and, Retreat suites that don't include specialty dining included.

 

How many cabin classes does X have?

• Retreat with specialty dining no charge
• Retreat without specialty dining with up-charge and 18% "tip"

It's not an additional class.  Celebrity just has decided to offer additional amenities to their very top suites which include specialty dining.  

 

24 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

Tipping is IMO a non-mandatory service that ought be earned, appreciated and gratefully given, such as tipping your tour guide as you mention.

 

A mandatory "tip" charge is not a tip. It's another fee IMO. 

That is just not the reality of cruising on any major cruise line right now.  All cruise lines add auto gratuities in various ways.  It's part of the fee structure.  No, it really isn't a tip in the traditional sense.  But it is what cruise lines are doing to stay competitive because too often people look at the base price when comparing one product to another completely ignoring the additional costs.  Until all cruise lines make a change on tipping structure and/or people start comparing the all in price when comparing one product to another, nothing is going to change.

[Kilroyshere]

3 minutes ago, prmssk said:

It's not an additional class.  Celebrity just has decided to offer additional amenities to their very top suites which include specialty dining.  

 

...All cruise lines add auto gratuities in various ways.  It's part of the fee structure...Until all cruise lines make a change on tipping structure and/or people start comparing the all in price when comparing one product to another, nothing is going to change.

The Retreat "Amenities Page" lists "Tips" included.  It does not have a disclaimer saying there are some X venues with mandatory tips not included in this advertised amenity.

 

As to your statement that all cruise lines add gratuities, that's not true nor reality.

 

Premium lines Regent and Seabourn for instance, have no up-charges in specialty restaurants nor is tipping mandatory in any venue or service offered (spa, tours, fitness, etc).

 

The Retreat is marketed as a Premium level of cruising service. While Retreat Suites are priced comparably with Premium cruise line cabins that don't have mandatory tipping charges, the mandatory tipping in Retreat contradicts the "Tips Included" on the Retreat Amenities website page.

[PTC DAWG]

15 minutes ago, prmssk said:

It's not an additional class.  Celebrity just has decided to offer additional amenities to their very top suites which include specialty dining.  

 

That is just not the reality of cruising on any major cruise line right now.  All cruise lines add auto gratuities in various ways.  It's part of the fee structure.  No, it really isn't a tip in the traditional sense.  But it is what cruise lines are doing to stay competitive because too often people look at the base price when comparing one product to another completely ignoring the additional costs.  Until all cruise lines make a change on tipping structure and/or people start comparing the all in price when comparing one product to another, nothing is going to change.

I agree, we choose to cruise, we know the rules.  

[RichYak]

Upthread we have people using "the way things used to be" as an excuse to stiff the staff, now we have "the way things are on premium lines" as an excuse to stiff the staff. These are the same people that wonder why gratuities have become mandatory on X.

[jagoffee]

9 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

The Retreat "Amenities Page" lists "Tips" included.  It does not have a disclaimer saying there are some X venues with mandatory tips not included in this advertised amenity.

 

As to your statement that all cruise lines add gratuities, that's not true nor reality.

 

Premium lines Regent and Seabourn for instance, have no up-charges in specialty restaurants nor is tipping mandatory in any venue or service offered (spa, tours, fitness, etc).

 

The Retreat is marketed as a Premium level of cruising service. While Retreat Suites are priced comparably with Premium cruise line cabins that don't have mandatory tipping charges, the mandatory tipping in Retreat contradicts the "Tips Included" on the Retreat Amenities website page.

I fail to see the distinction from the All Included package with the basic gratuities included and the Retreat gratuities in this regard.  
 

Which cruise line are you not expected to tip for Spa services?

Edited October 31, 2022 by jagoffee

[Kilroyshere]

6 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

I fail to see the distinction from the All Included package with the basic gratuities included and the Retreat gratuities in this regard.  

From the Retreat Amenities Website page verbatim:

 

The best amenities, all included.

As a guest of The Retreat, you’ll also enjoy a long list of thoughtfully curated amenities that start with four newly added perks*—premium drinks, premium Wi-Fi, tips, and an onboard credit to spend almost any way you like.

 

Tips

If you’re wondering when and how much to tip your dedicated service team — don’t. We’ve got it covered. As a guest of The Retreat, all your gratuities are prepaid.

 

 

[morpheusofthesea]

University Level Look at Tipping as a Social Norm

"Tipping has several different forms, : reward-tipping, price tipping, tipping-in advance, bribery-tipping, holiday-tipping and gift-tipping. The common feature of all forms of tipping is the voluntary and discretionary nature of the tip: the consumer is free to choose how much to tip, if at all. This definition excludes service charges [aka discretionary service charges] that are sometimes added to the bill (for example in many European countries), imposed gratuities (US restaurants often impose a 15-18 percent gratuity for large parties – usually six diners or more), [cruise ship imposed gratuities]and imposed tips (for example some tour packages include a certain amount that the consumer has to pay for tips). Indeed, these cases have little in common with voluntary tipping."

 P.S. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23748777_The_Social_Norm_of_Tipping_A_Review

Edited October 31, 2022 by morpheusofthesea
P.S.

[Cruise a holic]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:28 AM, basil1 said:

But if you prepay gratuities then that's a double gratuity charge, isn't it?

Yes.  But if service is great- why not.

[jagoffee]

36 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

From the Retreat Amenities Website page verbatim:

 

The best amenities, all included.

As a guest of The Retreat, you’ll also enjoy a long list of thoughtfully curated amenities that start with four newly added perks*—premium drinks, premium Wi-Fi, tips, and an onboard credit to spend almost any way you like.

 

Tips

If you’re wondering when and how much to tip your dedicated service team — don’t. We’ve got it covered. As a guest of The Retreat, all your gratuities are prepaid.

 

 

At Celebrity Cruises®, we believe choice matters. That’s why we’ve pre-packaged our most popular amenities—drinks, Wi-Fi, and tips—so you can now choose the most convenient way to get the best value from your cruise. It’s that simple. One price. All Included.

A value up to $115 per person, per day
 

Drinks

Choose from an incredible array of beers, spirits, cocktails, liqueurs, frozen drinks, wines by the glass, sodas, juices, specialty coffees and bottled water from our Classic Drinks Package.

 Wi-Fi 

We know staying in touch is important, so we’ve included Basic Wi-Fi access for all guests. Browse the web, check email, and text using messaging apps.

 Tips

We’ve got you covered. Just sit back and relax while we make your vacation as memorable 

[jagoffee]

Also if you win a bid for the retreat and you do not already have the AI, you will not get those perks.  

[Kilroyshere]

24 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Which cruise line are you not expected to tip for Spa services?

I named 2 premium cruise lines in the post you responded to where tipping is not a mandatory automatic fee. In fact, they state: 'Tipping is neither required nor expected.'

 

It's the same non-mandatory tipping policy at my local health club, masseur, barber, nearly all restaurants I frequent (unless party is of 6 to 8 or more which is disclosed on the menu) and most other service venues where tipping is customary, but not required.

 

I tip generously for good to excellent service. I will tip lower when service is IMO not satisfactory nor up to par. 

 

I dislike mandatory tipping. It IMO does not incentivize Premium service when the operator knows it's a guaranteed revenue stream regardless of service quality delivered.