Should Azamara have butlers for all suites in the future?

[uktog]

There has been a lot of discussion on a thread about whether there are issues on Onward or not about the value and skills of the butlers, but the issue is not limited to Onward.  

Previously there was a relatively simple list about what the butler would do for you - very few people I suspect had the butler do everything (packing and unpacking for example) but the list was understood.

Recently, there have been issues with butlers not even doing that list, but that has thrown up the issue of training and it seems that to fill gaps due to expansion and staff not returning after covid, some waiters have been promoted to the role without full "butler" training.  I have also heard anecdotal stories whilst onboard of basic things these butlers did not know so its not just what is on their board.

So whilst everyone is managing expectations downward and hoping everyone understands Carson from Downton will not be at their beck and call, Azamara has issued a new description of the role of the butler on their website which muddies the water with its fluff.  Back to the Downton image??

 

Dedicated English Butler Service

Our butlers are remarkably adept at tending to the details that make you relaxed and happy. Think of your butler as your personal valet, party consultant and planner, wine expert, mixologist, afternoon purveyor of fabulous treats, reservations specialist, and all-purpose support system.

 

As one poster has said, the butler service may well be an over promise and under deliver - based on this narrative I can see how that could be said.

 

It got me thinking, finding competent butlers is not unique to Azamara, other lines are struggling.  Some are now using a different business model - no butlers.  Butlers were a "suite legacy" from the RC/Celebrity days.  Indeed when Azamara first started they tried to use the line all attendants were butlers, that one had to be shut down pretty fast.  

 

I am wondering what the future for butlers is on Azamara now there are new owners.  Is it that Azamara really invests in recruiting, training and rewarding staff to operate as butlers not higher end waiters/stateroom attendances?  Its really stretching the imagination to say that for most guests the service is an English Butler Service (That does not mean English Butlers, it means Butlers trained to the standard applied in English stately homes a la the British Butler Institute (google it)

 

Or is it that they remove the service for all but Club Ocean and Club Owner suites which is probably the more sustainable option?

 

Thoughts???

 

 

[Grandma Cruising]

I’d go for the second option - butlers only in the Ocean and Owners suites. However  I would like to see better trading for cabin attendants too. I know you mentioned that you had had issues with yours recently - ours on this cruise is not the best - no tote bag, laundry bags or dressing gowns in the cabin & I had to ask several times to get them!

[cruisefam38]

2 hours ago, uktog said:

Or is it that they remove the service for all but Club Ocean and Club Owner suites which is probably the more sustainable option?

Then a clear and measurable, if not commensurate, decrease in accommodation rate would be expected for Club Continent suites.

On our March, 2022 cruise the butler was excellent.  On our August, 2022 cruise the butler was merely very good.  However, we didn't need him to be excellent, so possibly he didn't get to show his excellence.  Both gentlemen were quick to respond to our few, simple requests.  We were pleased with the level of service and felt on both occasions our cruise was enhanced by the butler. 

We think of ourselves has fairly self-sufficient and therefore low-maintenance, and have been curious about what other passengers ask for and receive during cruises.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

I guess we are very low maintenance when it comes to Butlers, but we have been completely happy with every Butler we have had.  [They usually beg us to give them more to do!]  I don't want help unpacking – how would I ever find things?  But getting extra reservations at the specialty restaurants?–they always get exactly (or close enough) what we request [maybe the fact that we ask for 8:00 makes it easier?]  Switching out the welcome wine/spirits for what I really want, and arranging a small party in our suite with canapés and bubbly?–never a problem.  These are not things a cabin attendant could do [or should be asked to do, taking their time away from attending to cabins...].  So I'm glad there are Butlers available, even if they don't measure up to the standard of Jeeves.

[excitedofharpenden]

10 hours ago, uktog said:

There has been a lot of discussion on a thread about whether there are issues on Onward or not about the value and skills of the butlers, but the issue is not limited to Onward.  

 

Thoughts???

 

 

In my view this has been way overdone and it seems to have blown up on one thread and chiefly (but not exclusively) by someone who has never been on Azamara before. I've not noticed it as a general issue before. On this board or on the ship. So I take the complaints with the pinch of salt I think they deserve.

 

By way of qualification I've had the services of an Azamara butler probably more than fifteen times in a variety of suites. It's always been a nice experience. Some more than others. As usual it's about.the people. For me I like the butlers that don't take themselves (or me) too seriously. I'm low maintenance, but if I'm not feeling well or I want to organise a get together in the cabin then the larger stateroom space and a butler is really nice to have and if I was staying in a CC suite without one I'd really miss it. 

 

Phil 

[Bobal]

I've twice had a butler on AZ. We're very undemanding and cringe at the thought of someone packing or unpacking our cases. One of them was very good but we had so few requests anyway and he largely left us alone and wasn't particularly proactive.  I think he had some demanding guests so easy to leave us alone. I do remember that the other one had little interaction and wasn't that bothered about us. No problem as we didn't require his assistance and only realised what was lacking by how good the first one had been 

 

Sailed in MSC Yacht Club earlier this year and our butler made us realise just how good a butler can be

[hamrag]

19 minutes ago, Bobal said:

....Sailed in MSC Yacht Club earlier this year and our butler made us realise just how good a butler can be

Indeed, MSC Yacht Club knows what a good butler looks like, no doubt!

[donaldsc]

Just my opinion but you have to have a real problem if you can't unpack and then pack your suitcases.

 

DON

[marinaro44]

Not sure why this topic even deserves a thread, and I regret that it was started.  Phil's posting above puts the matter perfectly.  The butler issue was raised primarily because someone didn't get the dinner reservations he or she wanted...for a perfectly legitimate reason.  Then people piled on without naming any specific issues with their butlers. 

 

Let's kill this thread soon.  It serves no purpose.  Azamara will decide  on whether it wants butlers and a few persistent complainers here shouldn't and won't influence any decision.  My vote:  Keep the butlers, as some use them productively while others don't bother...a personal decision.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Requiring that threads 'serve a purpose' would reduce Cruise Critic to a shadow of its current self...  There's a great [although perhaps apocryphal] quote from Vatican II where late in some debate a Cardinal came up to the microphone and said "Everything that needs to be said about this topic has already been said ... but not by me!"  That sums up a lot of threads on Cruise Critic – but it doesn't violate the Guidelines so it isn't really my job to kill them.  It is in each of our power, however, to stop reading threads that have run their course.

[uktog]

Thanks for the balanced responses. Helps establish a perspective on something that’s perfect for some and has rough edges but works for others. 
As in the big bad world it’s sometimes a good purpose to temperature check with a specific question. 

[cruiseerf]

I have had Over a hundred Butlers on ships from Silversea to Seabourn to Celebrity and now upcoming Azamara.  I usually go over my pillow preferences, request lots of in cabin bottled water in my fridge, and provide the butler with my cleaning and pressing.   Lastly, I really don't like Folding (or Vacuuming either) so the day before the cruise ends I usually request my butler take everything out of the closets and drawers and fold and place on the bed organized in piles by type...Pants, Shorts, shirts etc (I still re check).   Then I just pack the folded clothes where I want.   I tip extra for this service and make it clear I appreciate it.   I don't like food smells in small spaces so I rarely order in.  I have experienced many good, medium and bad butlers....but I make it work as it is only two or three weeks etc.  In all my cruising I have only requested a butler change once.  I also once received an online questionnaire from Silversea pertaining specifically to their Butler service asking about how often I used the service, could a cabin attendant suffice etc....As of now, they still have butlers for all cabins.   On Celebrity they tried to change the title "Butler" to "Personal Retreat host" and that failed miserably and  it is now back to Butler.  Time will tell with Azamara and I look forward to meeting my butler whomever he or she is!  Safe sails to all.  

[lisiamc]

We took a couple of Silversea cruises some years ago, and every cabin had a butler. The ship was not full, and our butler was evidently bored, because I had to hide my hairbrush so that he wouldn’t feel that he had to pick all the hairs out of it every day. DH also hid his shoes so that they didn’t get polished every day.

[andrcan]

2 hours ago, lisiamc said:

We took a couple of Silversea cruises some years ago, and every cabin had a butler. The ship was not full, and our butler was evidently bored, because I had to hide my hairbrush so that he wouldn’t feel that he had to pick all the hairs out of it every day. DH also hid his shoes so that they didn’t get polished every day.

A friend of mine who served in the army used to tell me: a soldier should always take initiative and keep finding himself safe and easy tasks, otherwise the superiors will find him those that may end up with his heroic death:)

[federalexpress]

This will be my first cruise with a butler (and only my second ever cruise). I have no expectations (or even understanding) of what a butler could do that a decent cabin attendant could not. I certainly don't need help with packing or unpacking for example and I plan to do my own restaurant bookings so I know they are done and done quickly.

 

On the first night, if weather allows, I plan to dine on my balcony so I imagine having a butler might mean that is more efficient and I get served as I would in a restaurant, course by course, and get my wine topped up. Otherwise I have no known needs. I can only imagine he/she might come in handy if I have a problem I need sorting that an in depth familiarity with the ship might assist with. So in Rumsfeld terms, 'an unknown known'.

[uktog]

48 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

 

 

On the first night, if weather allows, I plan to dine on my balcony so I imagine having a butler might mean that is more efficient and I get served as I would in a restaurant, course by course, and get my wine topped up. Otherwise I have no known needs. I can only imagine he/she might come in handy if I have a problem I need sorting that an in depth familiarity with the ship might assist with. So in Rumsfeld terms, 'an unknown known'.

Managing expectations, first night might be the one night this would be a challenge as the butlers are usually extremely busy then so they may indicate they cannot do this or can only do it in a limited way.  Wine topped up, certainly they do not do that at any time, they will at best leave you a bottle.  Course by course serving - my experience - some do some decline to

[excitedofharpenden]

Yes, they won't do it first night. Changeover day is a very busy day for them. 

 

Phil 

[federalexpress]

17 minutes ago, uktog said:

Managing expectations, first night might be the one night this would be a challenge as the butlers are usually extremely busy then so they may indicate they cannot do this or can only do it in a limited way.  Wine topped up, certainly they do not do that at any time, they will at best leave you a bottle.  Course by course serving - my experience - some do some decline to

 

OK, well bang goes my one and only big need! I'll see how it goes, I won't me making any other demands that day and it can be as leisurely a dinner as they wish...

[uktog]

4 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

 

OK, well bang goes my one and only big need! I'll see how it goes, I won't me making any other demands that day and it can be as leisurely a dinner as they wish...

Do let us know the reaction to your request

[federalexpress]

Will do and with expectations somewhat lowered....

[uktog]

6 minutes ago, federalexpress said:

Will do and with expectations somewhat lowered....

Fingers crossed they might be exceeded on some of your request.  You should certainly be able to eat in your balcony from room service as a minimum

Edited November 2, 2022 by uktog

[JK300]

12 hours ago, cruiseerf said:

I have had Over a hundred Butlers on ships from Silversea to Seabourn to Celebrity and now upcoming Azamara.

I could be wrong but I think Seabourn doesn't have butlers.

John

[laurieb]

We had wonderful service from our (newly promoted) butler on the Quest this past August.  He remembered us from his days as a server 🙂

There were times I needed to request something be brought to our suite but it didn't bother me, always came.  The ships are still short staffed.  There were only I believe three butlers on the ship, and I know there were some demanding guests on our second cruise for sure.  

When there was a serious issue, like someone writing down the wrong stateroom number on their laundry slip and we got charged for it, he took care of it within an hour.  Brought us coffee every morning, even disembarkation morning.  

I hope they don't change 

[excitedofharpenden]

8 hours ago, laurieb said:

We had wonderful service from our (newly promoted) butler on the Quest this past August.  He remembered us from his days as a server 🙂

There were times I needed to request something be brought to our suite but it didn't bother me, always came.  The ships are still short staffed.  There were only I believe three butlers on the ship, and I know there were some demanding guests on our second cruise for sure.  

When there was a serious issue, like someone writing down the wrong stateroom number on their laundry slip and we got charged for it, he took care of it within an hour.  Brought us coffee every morning, even disembarkation morning.  

I hope they don't change 

Was that Robert per chance?

 

Phil 

[laurieb]

Yes it was!