Any news of RCCL going back to in person muster drills?

[Coralc]

2 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 12 RCI cruises this year and on every cruise, without exception, only one person per couple/family had to show up at their assigned muster station to get everyone checked in. 

How? They have to scan each person's SetSail pass barcode to show that you have completed muster. Did you just take them all with you? 

[bucfan2]

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 12 RCI cruises this year and on every cruise, without exception, only one person per couple/family had to show up at their assigned muster station to get everyone checked in. 

I’m all for the new muster system. Stories like this certainly explain why those in charge are for the old muster process. 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, NO_Member_Name said:

Just out curiosity, does anyone know what crew training tells them to expect? And, how are things supposed to go beyond the part that passengers currently see.

Their training tells them to expect a confused, frightened "herd of cats", and they need to be calm and firm and guide the passengers to do what they are supposed to do.  Under the new muster system, they have removed any training in dealing with crowds by the crew, so performance will definitely suffer.

 

Not sure what you are asking about "how are things supposed to go beyond the part passengers see".  But, I'll add some comments.  During the passenger muster, the passengers see the about 75% of crew who are assigned to guide passengers to muster and to control the muster stations.  The remainder of the crew will be at their emergency stations dealing with the emergency, as fire teams, technical teams, medical teams, security teams, etc.  There will also be crew who are readying the lifeboats for use, even if the Captain never intends to use them, so they will all be lowered to the deck, ready for loading.  Special needs teams will be sent out to assist those with disabilities, first to find them, assist them to their station, and then stand by should they need to be moved to the boats.  Crew follow behind the passengers, opening and searching every cabin, and sweeping and searching every public space, until everyone is accounted for.  That is the purpose of the passenger muster, to account for every passenger, not to get into the boat.  As I've noted regarding the Star Princess fire, the passengers were kept at their muster stations for many hours, even though the Captain had very little thought that the ship would need to be abandoned.  There are crew members whose assigned duty is to "assist as directed", and stand by until another team leader requests these crew to bring supplies (water, blankets) to the passenger muster stations, to assist with crowd control, or to assist with the emergency teams.

 

A "fire and general emergency drill", of which the passenger muster is only a part, is a huge, finely choreographed operation that involves the entire crew.  Taking out the passenger muster part, as the new system does, severely degrades the training effectiveness.

12 hours ago, JeffT237 said:

The saying "train like your life depends on it because it does" is exactly what your'e talking about, passengers need to realize these drills and exercises are for the crew as much as they are required for the passengers.

This is true, and every first responder, everywhere, will agree wholeheartedly with this.  In an emergency, will passengers forget what they are to do?  Sure, but just as firefighters train daily over the same thing, the more you actually do something, the more "muscle memory" takes over, and conscious thought is not required.  And, doing it while thousands of others are doing it as well, is far better training than simply sauntering, on your own schedule, to muster, a few at a time.  And, really, there are three things passengers need to take away from the muster drill:  show up, shut up, listen up.

[barbeyg]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 12 RCI cruises this year and on every cruise, without exception, only one person per couple/family had to show up at their assigned muster station to get everyone checked in. 

Not our experience.  Even when my sister and aunt (who both have limited mobility) sailed with us to AK.  They sat down in chairs nearby as we waited for the muster reps to get set up. My husband and I each scanned our cards, acknowledged we watched the video, etc. , and the rep walked over to sister and aunt to ask if they had watched the video and instructed them to come directly to the location if they heard the blasts.  He then scanned their cards. YMMV

[PhillyFan33579]

5 hours ago, Coralc said:

How? They have to scan each person's SetSail pass barcode to show that you have completed muster. Did you just take them all with you? 

From my experience they usually don’t scan your card, they just ask for your cabin number. If they do scan your card, they just scan one card and then mark everyone in the cabin as completed. The same thing applies when watching the two videos on the app. Only one person has to “watch” the videos and they can mark everyone in the cabin as having watched the videos. 

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, barbeyg said:

Not our experience.  Even when my sister and aunt (who both have limited mobility) sailed with us to AK.  They sat down in chairs nearby as we waited for the muster reps to get set up. My husband and I each scanned our cards, acknowledged we watched the video, etc. , and the rep walked over to sister and aunt to ask if they had watched the video and instructed them to come directly to the location if they heard the blasts.  He then scanned their cards. YMMV

My experience has been limited to ports in Florida. Like you mentioned, experiences may be different at different ports. 

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Their training tells them to expect a confused, frightened "herd of cats", and they need to be calm and firm and guide the passengers to do what they are supposed to do.  Under the new muster system, they have removed any training in dealing with crowds by the crew, so performance will definitely suffer.

 

Not sure what you are asking about "how are things supposed to go beyond the part passengers see".  But, I'll add some comments.  During the passenger muster, the passengers see the about 75% of crew who are assigned to guide passengers to muster and to control the muster stations.  The remainder of the crew will be at their emergency stations dealing with the emergency, as fire teams, technical teams, medical teams, security teams, etc.  There will also be crew who are readying the lifeboats for use, even if the Captain never intends to use them, so they will all be lowered to the deck, ready for loading.  Special needs teams will be sent out to assist those with disabilities, first to find them, assist them to their station, and then stand by should they need to be moved to the boats.  Crew follow behind the passengers, opening and searching every cabin, and sweeping and searching every public space, until everyone is accounted for.  That is the purpose of the passenger muster, to account for every passenger, not to get into the boat.  As I've noted regarding the Star Princess fire, the passengers were kept at their muster stations for many hours, even though the Captain had very little thought that the ship would need to be abandoned.  There are crew members whose assigned duty is to "assist as directed", and stand by until another team leader requests these crew to bring supplies (water, blankets) to the passenger muster stations, to assist with crowd control, or to assist with the emergency teams.

 

A "fire and general emergency drill", of which the passenger muster is only a part, is a huge, finely choreographed operation that involves the entire crew.  Taking out the passenger muster part, as the new system does, severely degrades the training effectiveness.

This is true, and every first responder, everywhere, will agree wholeheartedly with this.  In an emergency, will passengers forget what they are to do?  Sure, but just as firefighters train daily over the same thing, the more you actually do something, the more "muscle memory" takes over, and conscious thought is not required.  And, doing it while thousands of others are doing it as well, is far better training than simply sauntering, on your own schedule, to muster, a few at a time.  And, really, there are three things passengers need to take away from the muster drill:  show up, shut up, listen up.

I strongly agree with the need for an actual muster drill as the video they show is worthless to new cruisers.   

We have cruised many times for many years now and understand what we need to do but there are so many newbies that will be lost and confused should an emergency happen.  It will be those newbies that will create mass confusion.

[PhillyFan33579]

3 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

I’m all for the new muster system. Stories like this certainly explain why those in charge are for the old muster process. 

Just my opinion, but the safety briefing is not going to make too much of a difference no matter how they accomplish it. The reality is if a real world situation occurs, people are going to panic no matter what briefing they received. The key is the crew needs to know what they are doing, since it “should” be routine to them. However, as multiple videos aboard the Costa Concordia showed, many crew members were panicking as much if not more than passengers. 
 

But reading between the lines of your comment, a lot of crew members and passengers don’t take the safety briefing too seriously. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by PhillyFan33579

[Cruising89143]

We have cruise seven times out of Los Angeles and twice out of Miami since the restart on RCI. Each time they scanned “each” persons Set Sail pass. I fully expect that the cruise lines will eventually move back to the old system. 

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

However, as multiple videos aboard the Costa Concordia showed, many crew members were panicking as much if not more than passengers. 

It's been a while since I looked at any videos of the Concordia, but based on the official Italian report, the crew did a good job.  Perhaps some of what you consider panic on the part of crew, was them actually following orders to send passengers away from muster stations.  This was caused by a lack of leadership from the top.  The muster signal should have been sounded over an hour before the first boats were launched, when the Captain knew the ship was sinking.  Secondly, what passengers think is the "abandon ship" signal (passenger muster), is actually the "fire and general emergency" signal, and even after the passengers are mustered in this form, and even in the eventuality of boarding the boats and leaving the ship, the vast majority of the crew do not leave the ship.   They are still at emergency stations, dealing with the emergency.  Only after the passengers are away, and the Captain feels there is no hope for the ship, will he sound "abandon ship", which releases the crew from their emergency duties to proceed to their abandon ship stations.  What happened on the Concordia, was that no signal for passenger muster was every sounded, and the first announcement made was "abandon ship" releasing crew to abandon while the passengers were still trying to evacuate.

[chengkp75]

51 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

But reading between the lines of your comment, a lot of crew members and passengers don’t take the safety briefing too seriously.

The safety briefing is fluff.  The only thing required in this video is how to don the lifejacket.  And this was done in a video format before the new muster procedure, when they stopped having guests take the jackets to drill.  As I said above, the major thing about muster drill is to see how to get to your station while in a milling herd of cats, and to show up, shut up, listen up.

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, cruisingator2 said:

We have cruise seven times out of Los Angeles and twice out of Miami since the restart on RCI. Each time they scanned “each” persons Set Sail pass. I fully expect that the cruise lines will eventually move back to the old system. 

I hope you are right, but given our history in the maritime field, it will likely take a disaster to make it happen.

[Cruising89143]

14 hours ago, meadowlander said:

Certainly because the passengers who may have been infected before boarding could in no way spread the virus to you anywhere else on the ship. Only at the muster station are you concerned of a virus spreading. 😂

LOL….I guess some never take the elevators on a ship. Has to be the most crowded place on board. Some have a contest to see how many bodies that can pack into those suckers……😳

[not-enough-cruising]

9 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been on 12 RCI cruises this year and on every cruise, without exception, only one person per couple/family had to show up at their assigned muster station to get everyone checked in. 

While I have not cruised as much as you this year, my 4 trips (Miami, FLL, and Galveston) every individual had to present and be scanned individually 

[lcpagejr]

Lets think about this....There are many repeat cruisers on a cruise. Do you seriously pay attention?? Prior to Covid I have found the muster drills are getting shorter and shorter...just do a life jacket demonstation and remind you the location your at is where you go if an emergency. They weren't even making you take life jacket anymore. Everyone would just show up from anywhere on ship so they really arent getting practice leaving from cabin to their actual muster location.Atleast when you had to take a life jacket you were forced to go back to your cabin to get it...other than some savy passengers who would carry with them on top decks in preparation for the muster drill (lol)

 

Bottom line... we are still  going to your assigned muster station to check in (check) ...The inroom video is on your TV when you arrive and you can see it all week (check)....Asfor the crew, They have several internal drills througghout cruise...so they are more then ready if an emergency occurs. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by lcpagejr

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, lcpagejr said:

Asfor the crew, They have several internal drills througghout cruise...so they are more then ready if an emergency occurs. 

And which of these drills show the crew how to handle thousands of passengers heading for their muster stations?  This is the true failure of the new system, any realistic training in crowd control.

[lcpagejr]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And which of these drills show the crew how to handle thousands of passengers heading for their muster stations?  This is the true failure of the new system, any realistic training in crowd control.

Don't disagree but.....all I remember is crew blocking off areas and directing you to stairwells when drill started.  I'm pretty sure they have been trained to follow specific procedures. When they do the life boat drills and water tight door closing drills you see crew throughout ship at their assigned locations

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, lcpagejr said:

Don't disagree but.....all I remember is crew blocking off areas and directing you to stairwells when drill started.  I'm pretty sure they have been trained to follow specific procedures. When they do the life boat drills and water tight door closing drills you see crew throughout ship at their assigned locations

While you were being herded by those crew you saw, other crew were following behind the passengers, to open, search, and mark all cabins as clear.  While you are standing in your muster station, those crew are continuing their emergency duties, but you don't see them, because you are collected in controlled, accountable locations, which is the purpose of the drill. But, as for crowd control, you can say "direct people in this direction", but it doesn't provide any training in what to do when a recalcitrant pax (during a drill, which translates to a frightened pax during an emergency) doesn't follow those procedures.

 

As for the additional crew you do see during the weekly crew drills, during an actual emergency, these crew would also be there for the passenger muster.  As noted, the "passenger muster" signal is actually the "fire and general emergency" signal, so when it sounds for real, all crew report to their emergency stations, not just the ones you see during the passenger muster drill.  During that drill, only the crew needed to "herd the cats" are used, so that the ship's operation can continue (sending baggage to cabins, making meals, etc).

[PhillyFan33579]

55 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's been a while since I looked at any videos of the Concordia, but based on the official Italian report, the crew did a good job.  Perhaps some of what you consider panic on the part of crew, was them actually following orders to send passengers away from muster stations.  This was caused by a lack of leadership from the top.  The muster signal should have been sounded over an hour before the first boats were launched, when the Captain knew the ship was sinking.  Secondly, what passengers think is the "abandon ship" signal (passenger muster), is actually the "fire and general emergency" signal, and even after the passengers are mustered in this form, and even in the eventuality of boarding the boats and leaving the ship, the vast majority of the crew do not leave the ship.   They are still at emergency stations, dealing with the emergency.  Only after the passengers are away, and the Captain feels there is no hope for the ship, will he sound "abandon ship", which releases the crew from their emergency duties to proceed to their abandon ship stations.  What happened on the Concordia, was that no signal for passenger muster was every sounded, and the first announcement made was "abandon ship" releasing crew to abandon while the passengers were still trying to evacuate.

The videos I have seen showed a few crew members who didn’t appear to have a clue what was going on. But maybe that was a leadership issue like your post mentions. Even if they were genuinely panicking, the actions of a few crew members obviously don’t reflect upon the actions of the crew as a whole. 

[PhillyFan33579]

48 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

While I have not cruised as much as you this year, my 4 trips (Miami, FLL, and Galveston) every individual had to present and be scanned individually 

That doesn’t surprise me at all. It always amazes me how both port staff and crew staff are so inconsistent. 
 

I have cruised out of Port Canaveral where they didn’t check anyone’s check-in time at the terminal. A few weeks later I cruised out of the same terminal and they were strictly enforcing check-in times. 
 

At the swim up bar at Coco Cay, most of the time all you have to do is give the bartender your cabin number (and ship if more than one ship is there) when ordering a drink. However, I was there a few times where the bartenders wouldn’t get you a drink unless you gave them your card. 
 

None of these issues really bother me, but it would be nice if there was more consistency with both port and ship employees. 

[broadwaybaby123]

43 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And which of these drills show the crew how to handle thousands of passengers heading for their muster stations?  This is the true failure of the new system, any realistic training in crowd control.

I've seen them do the crew muster drills during days in port when I stayed on the ship.  The portion I saw had them role playing certain types of passengers that might need assistance.  I saw one crew member wearing a sign that said "I am a lost child" as the crew assisted them to the muster station.

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, broadwaybaby123 said:

I've seen them do the crew muster drills during days in port when I stayed on the ship.  The portion I saw had them role playing certain types of passengers that might need assistance.  I saw one crew member wearing a sign that said "I am a lost child" as the crew assisted them to the muster station.

Yes, we frequently do this to help train the special needs teams.  However, were there thousands of these "role players", and would a crew member "acting" as a passenger have the same reactions as recalcitrant or frightened passengers?

[SherriZ366]

17 hours ago, meadowlander said:

Certainly because the passengers who may have been infected before boarding could in no way spread the virus to you anywhere else on the ship. Only at the muster station are you concerned of a virus spreading. 😂

I should have been more clear -- the cramming together of passengers during the Muster Drill gives Covid (or other viruses) a golden opportunity to spread.  Agree that it can also be picked up in any other area of the ship where there are a lot of people (shows, Royal Promenade, bars, MDR etc.) but I think it helps to eliminate an event that has the potential to be a super spreader.  I think E-muster was part of RCCL and NCL's Healthy Sail Panel recommendations.  

[SherriZ366]

15 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

I thought this e-muster on Royal was in place and being tested on a ship or two prior to Covid? I believe it was Symphony or Harmony.

I think so too.  

[SherriZ366]

15 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

What they need to do is stop making idle threats on the announcements that the person cannot sail if they do not complete the e-muster drill, and actually kick them off the ship if they don't by xyz time.. How many sailings do you think it would take before that spread like wild fire and people took it seriously? This problem would resolve itself within a week or so.

 

I know this, because even though I have never missed an e-muster, I came back to my cabin from the casino, on the first night of a cruise and found a letter telling me that since I missed it, I needed to report to a certain lounge (can't remember which one) at 830pm. Well it was almost midnight at that point. So I called Guest Services and explained they made a mistake and I did complete the drill, and my card was scanned at my muster station. They just took my word for it, and said don't worry about it. I was not expecting that response.

 

 

I like your idea.  Viewing the muster video (we do it while we wait to board) and checking in at our Muster Station are a huge must on our first day to-do list.  

Kicking non-compliant passengers off the ship seems like a smart solution to the problem.  Social media would amplify the booting of these passengers.