NCL dropping the e-muster??

[phoenix1181]

2 hours ago, WoodByWright said:

I saw one report from a person in a Facebook group. But so far I haven't seen it fleetwide. Sounds like something they are currently testing as they haven't made any announcements.

I cruise in 6 days & seem to recall receiving multiple emails regarding watching the emuster at least this far in advance of my July cruise.  There's nothing showing when I log into NCL so I'm thinking there will be a real muster drill when I board next Friday.

 

Personally, I have no problem with it although waiting for the stragglers does irritate me.  When I boarded in July, I really wasn't paying much attention to where we went to have our cards scanned so I  went to my muster station the next day to make sure I knew where to go.  Like all cruisers, I don't ever want to need to use the information for real but I always want to know where to go!

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

🤦‍♂️, perhaps you should send in your resume to NCL and ask to be hired to implement training procedures for the crew re the muster drill.

Perhaps NCL and the federal bureaucracy could do their job and recognize the advantages of the emuster and find a better way to train the crew other than using passengers as a training aid.

 

You do realize the old fashioned muster has some serious disadvantages.  It was disclosed at one muster drill that we should bring appropriate clothing since we might be at the muster station for several hours.  Can you imagine 3000 passengers standing shoulder to shoulder for three four hours in adverse weather without bathrooms or food or water.  How many do you think will have serious medical complications?

 

Identify suitable inside areas, like the MDRS, theaters, buffet area where the passengers can be collected (yes  you can herd them there) where they can sit, access bathrooms, etc, use those as muster stations.

[Elvis1209]

On 11/24/2022 at 11:50 AM, WoodByWright said:

I would love going back to masks on all the time if that meant 30% full ships! that was wonderful!

It was nice!!!  No crowded elevators, no chair hogs, always an empty table at the buffet.  When we talk about the good old days, this is what we're going to refer to!

 

Elvis

[prmssk]

18 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Identify suitable inside areas, like the MDRS, theaters, buffet area where the passengers can be collected (yes  you can herd them there) where they can sit, access bathrooms, etc, use those as muster stations.

Before the pandemic, they were still holding them out on the deck in front of lifeboats on NCL?  I haven't sailed NCL is many, many years so my more recent experience is with other cruise lines.  I just went through my blog and the last muster drill I did out in front of the lifeboats was in 2013.  All my pre-pandemic cruises after that point (on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Celebrity) were held in the theater or a lounge.

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, prmssk said:

Before the pandemic, they were still holding them out on the deck in front of lifeboats on NCL?  I haven't sailed NCL is many, many years so my more recent experience is with other cruise lines.  I just went through my blog and the last muster drill I did out in front of the lifeboats was in 2013.  All my pre-pandemic cruises after that point (on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Celebrity) were held in the theater or a lounge.

My first NCL cruise was last year.

All my cruises prior to that only Oasis used the aqua theater for muster.  I'm sure there were other locations too.  All my other cruises, Holland, Princess, RCCI were by the life boats.

My real complaint is the belief that holding muster at the lifeboats is a poor way to do it.  You can't see,  you can't hear, and there's no way you can keep 3000 people standing next tothe boats for perhaps several hours.

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Identify suitable inside areas, like the MDRS, theaters, buffet area where the passengers can be collected (yes  you can herd them there) where they can sit, access bathrooms, etc, use those as muster stations.

Which continues to ignore the structural requirements for muster stations.  You can't just say, "let's make this a muster station, because it's comfortable and convenient for me".

[scamper]

Frankly, I am disappointed that many, if not most or all, lines are going back to the traditional muster drill.  Primarily because crowding onto an open deck in 90F+ Florida temperatures and humidity sucks.  But, it definitely won't kill me and if that is what is required, so be it.  It is what it is.  If I don't like it, I can charter a boat or, as someone mentioned upthread, spend my money in hotels and resorts. I don't need to see or hear the crew unless they are calling row like they used to do.  As long as I know where my assigned boat is, I'm good--I'll worry about hearing or seeing the crew in the event that boats are needed to get us off ship.

 

 

[prmssk]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

My first NCL cruise was last year.

All my cruises prior to that only Oasis used the aqua theater for muster.  I'm sure there were other locations too.  All my other cruises, Holland, Princess, RCCI were by the life boats.

My real complaint is the belief that holding muster at the lifeboats is a poor way to do it.  You can't see,  you can't hear, and there's no way you can keep 3000 people standing next tothe boats for perhaps several hours.

No, you couldn't hear.  They were miserable.  Moving them inside made them a bit more comfortable but they still lasted way too long (mostly waiting on all of those who didn't show up) and most didn't pay attention, just like most people don't pay attention to the safety presentation on an airplane.  

 

1 minute ago, scamper said:

Frankly, I am disappointed that many, if not most or all, lines are going back to the traditional muster drill. 

I know Disney has gone back to the traditional muster drill.  And we have a couple isolated reports on NCL but no official policy change.  Are there others that are going back that I'm missing?  I don't think at this point we can say many or most are going back to traditional muster drills.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Which continues to ignore the structural requirements for muster stations.  You can't just say, "let's make this a muster station, because it's comfortable and convenient for me".

That isn't what I'm saying.   I'm saying there is a better way than standing shoulder to shoulder with several hundred people exposed to the elements while experiencing a safety lecture that can't be heard or seen is a poor way to conduct a muster drill.  It would seem that everyone would prefer a muster drill that is more condusive to the passengers actually getting something out of it.

 

Exactly what are those sturctural requirements that are satisfied on the boat deck but are not satisfied anywhere else within the ship?

[chengkp75]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Exactly what are those sturctural requirements that are satisfied on the boat deck but are not satisfied anywhere else within the ship?

If you'd like to know, there are chapters that address this in the shipbuilding rules for all the classification societies:  DNV, ABS, Lloyds.  Feel free to study.

[Nclgetawaymenhoney]

Considering only one ship last week had the “old” type muster officially and there is nothing in writing from NCL that they are going back to the old way, I’m surprised we are on page 6 already on this issue I’m just take the wait and see what happens attitude either way I’ll be on a cruise so life is good.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Perhaps NCL and the federal bureaucracy could do their job and recognize the advantages of the emuster and find a better way to train the crew other than using passengers as a training aid.

 

You do realize the old fashioned muster has some serious disadvantages.  It was disclosed at one muster drill that we should bring appropriate clothing since we might be at the muster station for several hours.  Can you imagine 3000 passengers standing shoulder to shoulder for three four hours in adverse weather without bathrooms or food or water.  How many do you think will have serious medical complications?

 

Identify suitable inside areas, like the MDRS, theaters, buffet area where the passengers can be collected (yes  you can herd them there) where they can sit, access bathrooms, etc, use those as muster stations.

I thought you had said you had already detailed the better way to train the crew. Now you say NCL abd the feds should find the better way. 🤦‍♂️

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Which continues to ignore the structural requirements for muster stations.  You can't just say, "let's make this a muster station, because it's comfortable and convenient for me".

Of course, you can say it; he has been saying it in post after post. It's just that saying it does not make it true.

[RocketMan275]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:29 AM, chengkp75 said:

I believe you've misrepresented this idea from another poster.

Well, actually, I got this 'idea' (that this return to the old muster is the captains idea/preferenc) from you.  See below:

On 11/23/2022 at 1:20 PM, chengkp75 said:

You may feel that the drill is useless, but maybe the Captain does not. 

 

See also your post #61 where you said: "And, perhaps the Captain has seen the benefits of the traditional muster from an actual emergency."

 

These were the first two mentions of that the Captain was the force behind a return to the old muster system.

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you'd like to know, there are chapters that address this in the shipbuilding rules for all the classification societies:  DNV, ABS, Lloyds.  Feel free to study.

Feel free to explain why we are to believe that Aqua Theater on the Oasis class, open across at least a 180 degree arc and completely open to the sky) satisfies these structural requirements but there are no other areas  that do?

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I thought you had said you had already detailed the better way to train the crew. Now you say NCL abd the feds should find the better way. 🤦‍♂️

I'm saying that the feds and the cruise lines can do a better job of organizing a muster drill and I outline some of the principles they should consider.  

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Of course, you can say it; he has been saying it in post after post. It's just that saying it does not make it true.

Perhaps you can explain why the Aqua Theater on the Oasis class, open across at least a 180 degree arc and completely open to the sky) satisfies these structural requirements but there are no other areas  that do?

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Feel free to explain why we are to believe that Aqua Theater on the Oasis class, open across at least a 180 degree arc and completely open to the sky) satisfies these structural requirements but there are no other areas  that do?

Two simple concepts of the many involved.

 

The outdoor muster station is just that:  outdoors.  Therefore there does not have to be any ventilation calculations, that an indoor muster station needs to have, and which may be shut off automatically if the fire is in the same zone as the muster station, even if it is 10 decks above.

 

The outdoor muster station is just that:  outdoors.  Therefore, no calculation of crowd and crisis paradigm needs to be done to see if the size and placement of exits from the indoor muster station, and the size and orientation of the passageways between the indoor muster station and the boats is sufficient to handle a possibly panicked or at least agitated crowd.

 

And, a freebee.  An outdoor muster station does not require the structural fire protection that an indoor muster station requires.

 

Spend a couple hundred bucks and get the Rules for Steel Shipbuilding.

[New2cruise2022]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Two simple concepts of the many involved.

 

The outdoor muster station is just that:  outdoors.  Therefore there does not have to be any ventilation calculations, that an indoor muster station needs to have, and which may be shut off automatically if the fire is in the same zone as the muster station, even if it is 10 decks above.

 

The outdoor muster station is just that:  outdoors.  Therefore, no calculation of crowd and crisis paradigm needs to be done to see if the size and placement of exits from the indoor muster station, and the size and orientation of the passageways between the indoor muster station and the boats is sufficient to handle a possibly panicked or at least agitated crowd.

 

And, a freebee.  An outdoor muster station does not require the structural fire protection that an indoor muster station requires.

 

Spend a couple hundred bucks and get the Rules for Steel Shipbuilding.

I’m going to save the hundreds of dollars and trust @chengkp75 Thanks for sharing all of your experience and expertise. 

[AwesomO]

I know this is completely pointless to even bother arguing at this point, but here I go anyway...

@RocketMan275

1. Why exactly do you think passengers should not be required for training? Military and police units do simulated trainings with hired individuals so that they can also practice what they've learned with real bodies. It requires the shut down and immobilization of whatever area they're using for the day, and obviously payment to those individuals. As @chengkp75already mentioned, that could technically be an option if we're considering alternatives (but we're not, since your opinion actually has zero relevance here, regardless of what you wish; write it on the survey card all you want), but then that's potentially lost vacation time for passengers. With multiple ships and multiple crews, this stands to be a real hassle. Regardless, you've already shut down this idea (claiming it's pointless for passengers, which makes zero sense since they're not passengers anymore and are instead paid for the job, but I digress)

 

2. Why do you think clearing the ship for disembarkation is comparable to clearing the ship during a muster drill as far as crew training goes? Granted, I've not been on many cruises, but generally they're cleared out slowly with an assigned time slot. They can wander around, grab breakfast, etc. It's not an emergency type of situation and takes place over the course of a couple hours. 

 

3. Why do you think your opinion on this matters at all? Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but to be constantly arguing as if it has any actual validity is mind boggling. Why you think writing your opinion on the survey will change anything is also mind boggling. These regulations come from outside entities, not NCL themselves. Even if they wanted to, they can't change it just because guests hate it. If they don't follow these regulations, they can't sail. Simple as that. Certain concessions were made for COVID but those are all slowly being pulled back. Take it up with whoever makes those regulations; it's not NCL, or any one cruise line.