Does the crew know when we've prepaid gratuities?

[joewmck]

We are a huge fan of taking care of those that take excellent care of us!  We always prepay gratuities, but often wonder if our service is based upon our prepay.  If you have any insight, please share!

[Philob]

12 minutes ago, joewmck said:

We are a huge fan of taking care of those that take excellent care of us!  We always prepay gratuities, but often wonder if our service is based upon our prepay.  If you have any insight, please share!

It's been reported/rumored the opposite: The crew will know if you REMOVED prepaid grats/daily service charge or whatever it's called.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Philob said:

It's been reported/rumored the opposite: The crew will know if you REMOVED prepaid grats/daily service charge or whatever it's called.

There are so many rumours about this subject, and no one has  ever posted a definitive response.

Plus, of course, some passengers will wait until the last day before removing the autotips,  so the crew will have no way of knowing in advance if the tips will be removed. 

Fortunately,  more and more lines are introducing packages that include autotips,  which cannot be removed, or removing autotips altogether  (P&O) which is obviously the ideal solution.

[Donald]

The system / practice varies by cruise line.

Generally speaking, on many ships, the Chief Purser sends out a daily update on gratuities / service charges.

Usually the daily report lists any changes in the service charges, additions and subtractions, by guest and by cabin.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, joewmck said:

We are a huge fan of taking care of those that take excellent care of us!  We always prepay gratuities, but often wonder if our service is based upon our prepay.  If you have any insight, please share!

 

No - prepaying the "Discretionary Service Charge" does not increase the levels of service you receive. Although the DSC was introduced after I left cruise ships, I have discussed it with a number of crews I worked with.

 

On the company I worked for the cabin stewards and MDR stewards were advised if you removed/reduced the DSC. They did not know if you pre-paid or paid on the final bill.

[wowzz]

The other point worth noting, is that on some lines,  Princess for example,  the autotips are pooled fleet wide. 

The impact on an individual crew member if a passenger does not pay the autotips is therefore less than 1c per day !

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

The other point worth noting, is that on some lines,  Princess for example,  the autotips are pooled fleet wide. 

The impact on an individual crew member if a passenger does not pay the autotips is therefore less than 1c per day !

Have you any real information supporting this claim?

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, joewmck said:

We are a huge fan of taking care of those that take excellent care of us!  We always prepay gratuities, but often wonder if our service is based upon our prepay.  If you have any insight, please share!

Since Guest Services knows all and they live with cabin attendants and dining room teams, of course they know.  

[Shmoo here]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have you any real information supporting this claim?

I've known this for at least 5 years. 

 

And now HAL is going to do the same.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Shmoo here

[Shmoo here]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have you any real information supporting this claim?

 

53 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

I've known this for at least 5 years. 

 

And now HAL is going to do the same.

 

 

From the Princess website:

 

What is “Crew Appreciation”?
A crew appreciation is a daily amount added to your onboard account, which is shared among the many members of our crew in hotel, dining and entertainment throughout the fleet who help make your cruise experience special. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

 

 

From the Princess website:

 

What is “Crew Appreciation”?
A crew appreciation is a daily amount added to your onboard account, which is shared among the many members of our crew in hotel, dining and entertainment throughout the fleet who help make your cruise experience special. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category.

Thank you for posting this - saved me a job this morning !

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have you any real information supporting this claim?

Hopefully that is enough "real information" to show that my post was based on a fact, and was not a "claim".

[Heidi13]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have you any real information supporting this claim?

 

@wowzz What Wowzz posted regarding Princess sharing the DSC fleetwide is factual, and has been that way since our son quit working for P&O/Princess almost 10 yrs ago. It was also in force during our last Princess cruise in 2015. Since we were on an Australian based ship which has no DSC, I asked some of the crew I knew, if they still shared fleet-wide.

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, wowzz said:

Thank you for posting this - saved me a job this morning !

Hopefully that is enough "real information" to show that my post was based on a fact, and was not a "claim".

 

I thought the question was about the 1 penny per day comment.  I was curious how you arrived at that.  

[Hlitner]

23 hours ago, Philob said:

It's been reported/rumored the opposite: The crew will know if you REMOVED prepaid grats/daily service charge or whatever it's called.

Humbug (and we said this in another post).  Take a ship like the Koningsdam that may have over 2000 passengers and 1000 crew.  If one passenger removes their auto tips ("crew appreciation") do you think that the ship sends out some kind of magic bulletin to 1000 crew members saying "Attention:  So and so has removed their "crew appreciation?"  And even if they could do something like that, how many of those 1000 crew would even have a clue as to what they person looked like.  Ohh.  I guess they are also sending out your photo to those same 1000 crew  Or perhaps they are printing large "Wanted Posters" that have your name and picture and are posted all over the crew area 🙂

 

I do think the crew has other issues of more importance.

 

Hank

[Donald]

On all HAL, Princess, and NCL ships (I have worked on nearly all of them) the Chief Purser sends a daily report to all Hotel Department Heads, detailing any increases or decreases in Service Charges from the previous day. The report typically lists cabin numbers, Guest names, and sometimes photos from the Security File. The reports often include the reason the Guest gave for changing the Service Charge.

Usually those Department Heads post copies of this report on Crew Notice Boards located back of house.

These reports often come up in Captain’s and Hotel Manager’s meetings if the Service Charges are reduced for Service or Quality-related reasons.

Occasionally the Head Office will make onboard enquiries if a Crewmember’s name is mentioned positively or negatively.

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I thought the question was about the 1 penny per day comment.  I was curious how you arrived at that.  

For goodness sake ! Just a generalisation. 

But, as you ask, in round figures 

Autotips = $15 per person per day 

Ships in fleet = 15

Therefore $1 per passenger goes into the fleet tip pool on a daily basis.

I have no idea how many crew members are in the tip pool, but certainly more than 100 !

So, the impact on an individual crew member if autotips are removed, is less than 1c per day. 

Clear enough ?  

Edited December 23, 2022 by wowzz

[ldubs]

16 minutes ago, wowzz said:

For goodness sake ! Just a generalisation. 

But, as you ask, in round figures 

Autotips = $15 per person per day 

Ships in fleet = 15

Therefore $1 per passenger goes into the fleet tip pool on a daily basis.

I have no idea how many crew members are in the tip pool, but certainly more than 100 !

So, the impact on an individual crew member if autotips are removed, is less than 1c per day. 

Clear enough ?  

 

I would say thanks except the tone of your reply is rather unwelcoming.  Of course, we are talking about the impact of one passenger out of the 2 million who sail on Princess every year.   I just hope folks don't use this penny/day as rationalization to remove the daily gratuity.  

 

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I would say thanks except the tone of your reply is rather unwelcoming.  Of course, we are talking about the impact of one passenger out of the 2 million who sail on Princess every year.   I just hope folks don't use this penny/day as rationalization to remove the daily gratuity.  

 

Sorry if I was terse,  but you did seem to be implying that my figures were plucked out of thin air !

Anyway, moving on !

I am certainly not implying that people should remove the autotips.  However, other Carnival brands have removed autotips completely,  and the various Princess packages incorporate gratuities,  so no opting out is possible. Seems to me that there is a gentle slide into the incorporation of autotips into the total cruise fare - which woukd be good news. 

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry if I was terse,  but you did seem to be implying that my figures were plucked out of thin air !

Anyway, moving on !

I am certainly not implying that people should remove the autotips.  However, other Carnival brands have removed autotips completely,  and the various Princess packages incorporate gratuities,  so no opting out is possible. Seems to me that there is a gentle slide into the incorporation of autotips into the total cruise fare - which woukd be good news. 

 

No worries.  I just wondered how you arrived at that figure.  Nothing else implied.  

 

I think I might be ok with adding $16+tax/day to the cruise fare and dropping gratuities altogether.   One problem to be reconciled is tipping will likely still remain a thing for the big mass market lines because of the high number of American's on board.  It will be hard to break the habit.  Maybe a "no tipping" sign will be needed.   

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Humbug (and we said this in another post).  Take a ship like the Koningsdam that may have over 2000 passengers and 1000 crew.  If one passenger removes their auto tips ("crew appreciation") do you think that the ship sends out some kind of magic bulletin to 1000 crew members saying "Attention:  So and so has removed their "crew appreciation?"  And even if they could do something like that, how many of those 1000 crew would even have a clue as to what they person looked like.  Ohh.  I guess they are also sending out your photo to those same 1000 crew  Or perhaps they are printing large "Wanted Posters" that have your name and picture and are posted all over the crew area 🙂

 

I do think the crew has other issues of more importance.

 

Hank

Sharing info about inconsiderate guests is standard in the service industry.  You give a "heads' up".  I remember past table mates who bragged about removing tips, you can bet crew does.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

For goodness sake ! Just a generalisation. 

But, as you ask, in round figures 

Autotips = $15 per person per day 

Ships in fleet = 15

Therefore $1 per passenger goes into the fleet tip pool on a daily basis.

I have no idea how many crew members are in the tip pool, but certainly more than 100 !

So, the impact on an individual crew member if autotips are removed, is less than 1c per day. 

Clear enough ?  

Easy trivialization - yes:  that one passenger screwing thousands of workers means that each worker only suffers immaterial loss.  However, it is important to remember that, while the whole might not always precisely match the sum of its parts - it does remain that sum.  Your summary certain makes it easy for an individual cruiser to justify removing the service charge - assuming that he is the only one doing so.  
 

Is he?

[Hlitner]

I will run the risk of the wrath of some fellow long term cruisers.  I have no issue with the passengers!  The problem is the cruise lines with their ridiculous "crew appreciation" and other schemes desigened to make the passengers feel guilty because the companies underpay the crePerw and transfer the blame/built to cruisers. It is not our problem!  The mass market lines have created this ridiculous mess and many folks (mostly from North America) fall into the trap.  

 

Personally, I do prefer the luxury lines that have a real no tipping policy.  They properly compensate the crew and we pay the cost through the cruise fare.  None of these silly games of "crew appreciation," or silly blank lines on invoices for drinks and alternative restaurants.  When we are on Seabourn, nobody is 

[Donald]

You may be surprised to learn that this tipping / service charge / crew appreciation system was first introduced on British Ships (White Star Line) by an American (J.P. Morgan) soon after he purchased the Line in 1902.

He reasoned that the crew would work harder and better if their compensation depended solely on performance. That is, the passengers were encouraged to tip those crew who went above and beyond in their duties. Poor performing crew would earn less, and either decide to work harder - or leave.

It was an interesting idea that soon morphed completely away from its original intent.

 

With the current version of “crew appreciation” on most mass market ships, crew who do a great job earn substantially more than the crew who work on the luxury no-tipping lines, like Seabourn. 

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I will run the risk of the wrath of some fellow long term cruisers.  I have no issue with the passengers!  The problem is the cruise lines with their ridiculous "crew appreciation" and other schemes desigened to make the passengers feel guilty because the companies underpay the crePerw and transfer the blame/built to cruisers. It is not our problem!  The mass market lines have created this ridiculous mess and many folks (mostly from North America) fall into the trap.

 

Of course a very large number of your audience (the readers of these boards) only cruise because the cost of cruising is so low compared with other vacation options available to them. Room and as much food (fairly well served) as they can eat, a fair amount of entertainment, a chance to see other areas, people cleaning up after you, etc. etc.

 

  All this for a cost which could hardly be matched by staying at a home town motel for a week and eating at local Applebees, Olive Garden, Ponderosa, etc. … and only possible because the cruise lines have figured out how to efficiently and effectively exploit the staff they bring in from poor societies.   

How can you say “It is not our problem”?   When we effectively hire the cruise lines to create the environment you deplore.

 

[Elaine5715]

10 hours ago, Donald said:

You may be surprised to learn that this tipping / service charge / crew appreciation system was first introduced on British Ships (White Star Line) by an American (J.P. Morgan) soon after he purchased the Line in 1902.

He reasoned that the crew would work harder and better if their compensation depended solely on performance. That is, the passengers were encouraged to tip those crew who went above and beyond in their duties. Poor performing crew would earn less, and either decide to work harder - or leave.

It was an interesting idea that soon morphed completely away from its original intent.

 

With the current version of “crew appreciation” on most mass market ships, crew who do a great job earn substantially more than the crew who work on the luxury no-tipping lines, like Seabourn. 

When a few Michelin starred restaurants tried to move from gratuities to a higher hourly wages causing top servers to quit,  In place of gratuities, these restaurants added a 20% "service charge" to pay for those wages.  So basically included mandatory tips but the anti-tip crowd when "ooh, it can be done".  Math is hard.