Cunard Ladies Dress Question

[buchanan101]

18 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

and frocks, apart from the frock coat, are dresses so  I ask again, where does the analogy fit?

All (women's) frocks are dresses, not all dresses are frocks

All gentlemen are men, not all men are gentlemen

All labradors are dogs, not all dogs are labradors

 

The analogy is simply a long way of saying that frocks are a subset of dresses (I guess that that was the original intent of the analogy, but there again, what do I know - I am a man!)

 

Wikipedia suggests that indeed not all dresses are frocks - only smart dresses, or coat-like dresses, but it seems to be mostly interpretation:

 

"Frock has been used since Middle English as the name for an article of clothing, typically coat-like, for men and women. In British and in Commonwealth countries the word may be used as an alternative term for a girl's or woman's dress, in particular for a dress suitable for a smart occasion"

 

[alc13]

"Frock" recalls my grandmother, but also Nancy Drew.  She wore frocks while driving in her roadster with her chums, Bess and George....

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, buchanan101 said:

All (women's) frocks are dresses, not all dresses are frocks

All gentlemen are men, not all men are gentlemen

All labradors are dogs, not all dogs are labradors

 

The analogy is simply a long way of saying that frocks are a subset of dresses (I guess that that was the original intent of the analogy, but there again, what do I know - I am a man!)

 

Wikipedia suggests that indeed not all dresses are frocks - only smart dresses, or coat-like dresses, but it seems to be mostly interpretation:

 

"Frock has been used since Middle English as the name for an article of clothing, typically coat-like, for men and women. In British and in Commonwealth countries the word may be used as an alternative term for a girl's or woman's dress, in particular for a dress suitable for a smart occasion"

 

I am aware of the etymology and as the original inference was with regards to ladies cruise wear I think we can disregard any attire which doesn't fit that description as we might even find ourselves travelling down the ecclesiastic route by mistake if we delve into the history of the word. 😀

 

 You missed out the Wikipedia paragraph with regards to contemporary connotations  which states the term can still be used for girl's, child's or woman's  ''light dress'' so it is indeed down to interpretation and probably, contemporary interpretations eg. I wore frocks, according to my grandmother,  as a child but I wear dresses as an adult.

 

Now if we mention gowns are long dresses  but not all long dresses are gowns, then I fully concur with the men/ gentlemen analogy. 🙂

[exlondoner]

11 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I am aware of the etymology and as the original inference was with regards to ladies cruise wear I think we can disregard any attire which doesn't fit that description as we might even find ourselves travelling down the ecclesiastic route by mistake if we delve into the history of the word. 😀

 

 You missed out the Wikipedia paragraph with regards to contemporary connotations  which states the term can still be used for girl's, child's or woman's  ''light dress'' so it is indeed down to interpretation and probably, contemporary interpretations eg. I wore frocks, according to my grandmother,  as a child but I wear dresses as an adult.

 

Now if we mention gowns are long dresses  but not all long dresses are gowns, then I fully concur with the men/ gentlemen analogy. 🙂

They also conventionally have different epithets applied even when denoting the same object. I might refer to the same garment as a posh frock or a pretty dress, but not so much the other way round.

[Victoria2]

18 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

They also conventionally have different epithets applied even when denoting the same object. I might refer to the same garment as a posh frock or a pretty dress, but not so much the other way round.

The single syllable and short o in both could, I suppose make ''posh frock'' easier on the ear than ''pretty frock'' or even ''posh dress'' but that's taking things to the extreme so sorry to go off piste Hattie. 😀

[Host Hattie]

I think we went off piste once someone mentioned monks !

At least the OP had some useful answers 

[Victoria2]

9 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

I think we went off piste once someone mentioned monks !

At least the OP had some useful answers 

It's not often Cunard issues are mentioned in the same breath as religious orders!

 

Blessings on both. 🙂

[exlondoner]

27 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

I think we went off piste once someone mentioned monks !

At least the OP had some useful answers 

Monks on skis, now there’s a thought.

[Victoria2]

5 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Monks on skis, now there’s a thought.

Now that, is TRULY off piste!!!!!!😄

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, Victoria2 said:

Now that, is TRULY off piste!!!!!!😄

Perhaps I should suggest Cunard install a ski slope on the new ship for people in frocks of any sort to use?

[Ferretworld]

Ebay is excellent for evening wear -  I have an extensive wardrobe of evening dresses from Hobbs, Whistles, Phase 8, etc etc and paid almost nothing for any of them (well usually around £10 I suppose). Vinted is also good but I find a better selection on Ebay. I know what size I am in most of these brands so my searches tend to be 'dress hobbs 14'  or similar which filters out all the random chinese brand stuff. Mostly the evening wear has been worn lightly and often I get stuff still with labels on so unworn.

[Victoria2]

11 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Perhaps I should suggest Cunard install a ski slope on the new ship for people in frocks of any sort to use?

Would that be next to the ice rink? Skater dresses, or frocks in some parlance, are very fashionable.

 

Back on subject, I was very tempted by a dress at the charity shop next to where I volunteer, last week. New in but also out before I had chance to buy it. There are quite a few alteration places popping up around and it wouldn't have taken much altering to change it into a lovely top to my specification.

 

I will start looking at the charity sector with new eyes so thank you for the mention on this thread. 🙂

 

 

[D&N]

Just to complete the trio, and an excuse for a cat picture.

 

The EverPretty dress arrived yesterday.  It's a perfect length for my wife's dancing heels. It's an opaque fabric and the skirt section is unlined. We'll need to test it out dancing around the living room to check whether any static is generated and if it needs a lining.

 

We brought Tina out to model it. We lost her to a feline coronavirus in March 2014, which prompted the adoption of Carmel and her sister. Her colouring suits blue.

[alibabacruisers]

Thank you for the Ever-Pretty site.  I loved looking at all those pretty dresses and will have to try and narrow the list down. 😉

 

[D&N]

6 hours ago, alibabacruisers said:

Thank you for the Ever-Pretty site.  I loved looking at all those pretty dresses and will have to try and narrow the list down. 😉

 

Many of their dresses are on SHEIN sites. Often cheaper and once you create an account you should find discount vouchers. We rarely buy without at least 20% off.

[2BACRUISER]

Heads up UK ladies, super 'frock' sale at Kaleidoscope especially good discounts on Monsoon

See https://www.kaleidoscope.co.uk/sale/dresses/occasion-dresses/going-out-dresses/_/N-1z141tkZ1z141prZ1z141wkZ1z1404fZ1z13t9f?No=96&refined=leftnav&plptype=resultslist&showMeItems=48

 

Enjoy x

 

[D&N]

@alibabacruisers

I should also have said that even if the dress is cheaper on Ever-Pretty, the SHEIN site will give you a better view of sizing. Lets you compare the model's sizes against the garment size they are wearing. Plus you may find customer feedback that may show what real people look like wearing the item and their opinions of whether it is true to size. You can then order from the cheapest.

When ordering from thousands of miles away it's best to have as much information as possible even if the supplier has good return policies.

[Lady Hudson]

Another vote for second hand.  My sister bought a black lace number for $4 that we both have worn.  These days I am low carbing so I can “shop my closet” for my next Cunard voyage.  Katherine 

[corporate services]

I recently found a website called JJ's House which has some lovely evening wear, I have my eye on a couple of dresses I want to order for my Christmas cruise

[D&N]

4 hours ago, corporate services said:

I recently found a website called JJ's House which has some lovely evening wear, I have my eye on a couple of dresses I want to order for my Christmas cruise

We were very pleased with this dress from JJ's House.

It was 2 sizes too big having been bought before the decision to diet was taken. We would buy a similar replacement in a smaller size but will try to get it altered locally to fit before we do that.

If you dance you might want to specify a shorter length. This was fine with the 4" heels in the picture but needed pegged up with 2½” dance shoes.

This time the models are Arthur and Cindy, who were some of our previous owners.