CCL's stock price

[Incognito1]

My OBC still hasn't shown up.  *sigh*  I think someone lazy got it, didn't want to bother making the screen bigger (the brokerage has the date and the name on opposite sides), and just let it go.  I've emailed a couple of times and nothing.  Will try to hit Guest Services the first day -- oh, joy.  It's how I want to spend my sail off time.

 

Any chance there is a phone number for this?

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Incognito1 said:

My OBC still hasn't shown up.  *sigh*  I think someone lazy got it, didn't want to bother making the screen bigger (the brokerage has the date and the name on opposite sides), and just let it go.  I've emailed a couple of times and nothing.  Will try to hit Guest Services the first day -- oh, joy.  It's how I want to spend my sail off time.

 

Any chance there is a phone number for this?

PRINCESS CRUISES*
Commercial Compliance Support
24303 Town Center Drive, Suite 200
Santa Clarita, CA 91355
Tel 800 872 6779 ext. 13028
Fax 661 753 0180
Email: sbpcl@princesscruises.com

[Steelers36]

8 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Agree, but that seems to be the old two wrongs make a right argument.

 

If it makes you feel better, all cruise lines do not operate that way. In 2021 we booked an NCL cruise for 2023. In the time between those dates, they raised the gratuities (they call it a DSC). They did give all affected the opportunity to prepay them at the old rate.

PCL has done the same thing.  Last time that affected us, I elected to pay the new rate in effect at time of voyage departure.

[Steelers36]

IMO, with regard to shares, a guest who buys shares with the full intent to collect $100 OBC and immediately sell is unethical. 

 

That said, anyone can elect to buy more or sell shares per their own financial situation and how they read market conditions.  But, the ethical way would be to be a shareholder at least until the voyage sails or ends for which the $100/$250 OBC was earned.

 

Can PCL enforce this?  Not likely.  They would have to ask every guest who claims SOBC to resubmit proof of ownership post-sailing or by embarkation and then bill anyone who is not still a shareholder $100 to their credit card or onboard account.  And of course update the T&C's to reflect this.  Is it going to happen?  No.   No doubt they realize folks can "cheat" the system, but they probably expect the vast majority are making the claims as intended.

[2 cruises a year]

38 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

IMO, with regard to shares, a guest who buys shares with the full intent to collect $100 OBC and immediately sell is unethical. 

 

That said, anyone can elect to buy more or sell shares per their own financial situation and how they read market conditions.  But, the ethical way would be to be a shareholder at least until the voyage sails or ends for which the $100/$250 OBC was earned.

 

Can PCL enforce this?  Not likely.  They would have to ask every guest who claims SOBC to resubmit proof of ownership post-sailing or by embarkation and then bill anyone who is not still a shareholder $100 to their credit card or onboard account.  And of course update the T&C's to reflect this.  Is it going to happen?  No.   No doubt they realize folks can "cheat" the system, but they probably expect the vast majority are making the claims as intended.

It's not worth the effort for Princes to try to enforce actual possession.  I doubt anyone has done this  deliberately.  It is possible someone had stock, applied for OBC then sold their stock, but not for a  profiteering purpose.  There is so little to be gained and so much effort to be put in.  The stock may even drop in value before it can be dumped.  Even the OP admitted he didn't have this in mind.

[Kmkub]

2 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

My OBC still hasn't shown up.  *sigh*  I think someone lazy got it, didn't want to bother making the screen bigger (the brokerage has the date and the name on opposite sides), and just let it go.  I've emailed a couple of times and nothing.  Will try to hit Guest Services the first day -- oh, joy.  It's how I want to spend my sail off time.

 

Any chance there is a phone number for this?

We got a note that they were behind, but it wasn’t more than three weeks. I’d check in.

[LACruiser88]

Stock price has gone in wrong direction this week...

 

[chisoxfan]

12 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

IMO, with regard to shares, a guest who buys shares with the full intent to collect $100 OBC and immediately sell is unethical. 

 

That said, anyone can elect to buy more or sell shares per their own financial situation and how they read market conditions.  But, the ethical way would be to be a shareholder at least until the voyage sails or ends for which the $100/$250 OBC was earned.

 

Can PCL enforce this?  Not likely.  They would have to ask every guest who claims SOBC to resubmit proof of ownership post-sailing or by embarkation and then bill anyone who is not still a shareholder $100 to their credit card or onboard account.  And of course update the T&C's to reflect this.  Is it going to happen?  No.   No doubt they realize folks can "cheat" the system, but they probably expect the vast majority are making the claims as intended.

Could not disagree with you more. Have purchased and sold CCL stock in one day to collect OBC.

Was going to do this on last cruise (just returned on X) and frankly the effort to do so wasn't worth it.

Particularly when X shares were sinking the morning I was considering doing this.

 

Not sure how you determine what is ethical or non-ethical but if I comply with what is required to get the credit that's as far as it should go. If Carnival wants to enforce specific requirements they should set up these parameters. Should a 100 share holder get the same credit as one who owns 10,000?

Should the CEO make an exorbitant salary when diluting shareholder value?. We are all welcome to determine what is ethical for you but I cannot agree (for me) in the big picture this practice (buying and selling) is unethical. JMHO

 

 

[Steelers36]

12 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

Stock price has gone in wrong direction this week...

 

No doubt the conflict overseas and threat of more interest rate hikes is dampening the entire market and then discretionary gets hit even more.

[Princessfan20]

12 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

Stock price has gone in wrong direction this week...

 

Most analysts spell it out pretty clearly about CCL and it's debt and interest payments alone are a big drag on the company's performance:

 

"Over the next few years, the size of Carnival's debt maturities will ramp up significantly from $2 billion in 2024 to $3.2 billion in 2026. The company also faces significant capital expenditures, which are necessary to maintain and grow its fleet of ships. Management expects this outflow to total a whopping $4.1 billion in 2024 alone. 

When you combine that with the expected debt principal payments and interest expense, it's hard to see Carnival having much left over for investors. In a sense, Carnival's adjusted EBITDA gives a misleading impression of the company's real financial situation and ability to generate shareholder value after meeting its other obligations."

[c-boy]

39 minutes ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Most analysts spell it out pretty clearly about CCL and it's debt and interest payments alone are a big drag on the company's performance:

 

"Over the next few years, the size of Carnival's debt maturities will ramp up significantly from $2 billion in 2024 to $3.2 billion in 2026. The company also faces significant capital expenditures, which are necessary to maintain and grow its fleet of ships. Management expects this outflow to total a whopping $4.1 billion in 2024 alone. 

When you combine that with the expected debt principal payments and interest expense, it's hard to see Carnival having much left over for investors. In a sense, Carnival's adjusted EBITDA gives a misleading impression of the company's real financial situation and ability to generate shareholder value after meeting its other obligations."

I/we didn't take a position in this stock thinking it would be a short term financial value .

[DCThunder]

52 minutes ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Most analysts spell it out pretty clearly about CCL and it's debt and interest payments alone are a big drag on the company's performance:

 

"Over the next few years, the size of Carnival's debt maturities will ramp up significantly from $2 billion in 2024 to $3.2 billion in 2026. The company also faces significant capital expenditures, which are necessary to maintain and grow its fleet of ships. Management expects this outflow to total a whopping $4.1 billion in 2024 alone. 

When you combine that with the expected debt principal payments and interest expense, it's hard to see Carnival having much left over for investors. In a sense, Carnival's adjusted EBITDA gives a misleading impression of the company's real financial situation and ability to generate shareholder value after meeting its other obligations."

So CCL debt levels mirror that of the US government, except the US debt level is several orders of magnitude larger.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Most analysts spell it out pretty clearly about CCL and it's debt and interest payments alone are a big drag on the company's performance:

 

 

Throwing darts will get better results than most analysts.

 

CCL is simply following what the rest of the market is doing - which is headed down. Look at any cruise line. Or airline. ...

[chisoxfan]

1 hour ago, DCThunder said:

So CCL debt levels mirror that of the US government, except the US debt level is several orders of magnitude larger.

If CCL could  print money on a computer screen like the FED all problems would be 'solved'.

[DCThunder]

13 minutes ago, chisoxfan said:

If CCL could  print money on a computer screen like the FED all problems would be 'solved'.

Schwartzenomics!

[Princessfan20]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Throwing darts will get better results than most analysts.

 

CCL is simply following what the rest of the market is doing - which is headed down. Look at any cruise line. Or airline. ...

 

CCL is not doing what most companies in the market are doing.   CCL has a whopping $32 BILLION dollars in debt and had to pay $539 million dollars in interest expenses which lead to a $693 million dollar loss for that quarter.  Those interest payments will have to be made because of the debt they are carrying.   It is not making money.  Most companies are not in that position and CCL will continue to be in a low stock  range it is now in for the foreseeable future.   They better hope for a strong economy to continue because a recession will dig even a deeper hole for them.

[MrSchwump]

FWIW, I submitted my shareholder statement last Saturday and the $100 OBC  was on my Personalizer by Monday morning. 
I pulled the docs from Fidelity and sent them as .pdf to the Princess email address along with the details about our cruise. Pretty easy. 

[Mike07]

2 hours ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

CCL is not doing what most companies in the market are doing.   CCL has a whopping $32 BILLION dollars in debt and had to pay $539 million dollars in interest expenses which lead to a $693 million dollar loss for that quarter.  Those interest payments will have to be made because of the debt they are carrying.   It is not making money.  Most companies are not in that position and CCL will continue to be in a low stock  range it is now in for the foreseeable future.   They better hope for a strong economy to continue because a recession will dig even a deeper hole for them.

 

 

You know, you're right. Shareholders on every ship should be assessed extra fees and charges to help cover the debt.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

CCL is not doing what most companies in the market are doing.   CCL has a whopping $32 BILLION dollars in debt and had to pay $539 million dollars in interest expenses which lead to a $693 million dollar loss for that quarter.  Those interest payments will have to be made because of the debt they are carrying.   It is not making money.  Most companies are not in that position and CCL will continue to be in a low stock  range it is now in for the foreseeable future.   They better hope for a strong economy to continue because a recession will dig even a deeper hole for them.

CCL is making money and debt is under 32billion. They also have a line of credit they haven't used up. My darts outperform your analysts all day.

[ontheweb]

34 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

CCL is making money and debt is under 32billion. They also have a line of credit they haven't used up. My darts outperform your analysts all day.

WOW debt under 32 BILLION!

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

WOW debt under 32 BILLION!

Wasn't it over 35 billion in recent memory?

[SCX22]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Look at any cruise line. Or airline.

The difference between cruise lines and airlines is that airlines provide and essential service and most governments are willing to to bail out their national airlines.  The pandemic proved that the airlines were essential in transporting cargo and could still generate revenue even though there were no passengers sitting in the seats.  Airlines have a higher incentive to be solvent because of the deals that were tied into government bailouts during the pandemic.  (The exception being Middle Eastern airlines of who’s governments can prop them up with no strings from oil revenues.)  The cruise industry is purely leisure and won’t ever be bailed out because of their offshoring practices—great for cruise fares but not good for tax revenue.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, SCX22 said:

The difference between cruise lines and airlines is that airlines provide and essential service and most governments are willing to to bail out their national airlines.  The pandemic proved that the airlines were essential in transporting cargo and could still generate revenue even though there were no passengers sitting in the seats.  Airlines have a higher incentive to be solvent because of the deals that were tied into government bailouts during the pandemic.  (The exception being Middle Eastern airlines of who’s governments can prop them up with no strings from oil revenues.)  The cruise industry is purely leisure and won’t ever be bailed out because of their offshoring practices—great for cruise fares but not good for tax revenue.

Airlines have been bailed out multiple times and will continue to be. But we are talking about stock prices, not special interests. 

[SCX22]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Airlines have been bailed out multiple times and will continue to be. But we are talking about stock prices, not special interests. 

I read that part of the this thread pertaining to the debt load and performance.

 

 

[Princessfan20]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

CCL is making money and debt is under 32billion. They also have a line of credit they haven't used up. My darts outperform your analysts all day.

 

Carnival is bleeding red ink and probably because of all the darts being thrown at it.  As of October 19, 2023, Carnival Corp had a $14.6 billion market capitalization, putting it in the 90th percentile of companies in the Hotels, Motels & Cruise Lines industry.

Carnival Corp does not have a meaningful P/E due to negative earnings over the last 12 trailing months. Carnival Corp’s trailing 12-month revenue is $20.0 billion with a -8.1% profit margin. Year-over-year quarterly sales growth most recently was 59.2%. Analysts expect adjusted earnings to reach $-0.089 per share for the current fiscal year. Carnival Corp does not pay a dividend.

 

But go ahead and put everything you own on CCL if it is such a sure thing.   

Edited October 20, 2023 by Princessfan20