After Reading Numerous Posts over the last Several Weeks, These are my thoughts

[kazu]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I did say "unless you choose to book a suite", and from where I'm sitting, a Penthouse would be a suite category. At least that is what Oceania themselves refer to it as:

 

 

 

(Note the categories continue below where I "snipped", including basic veranda, oceanview and inside categories.)

 

 

It’s like HAL calling the Vista category a “suite”.  All it is a verandah cabin.  It’s a nice room but it’s not a suite.  I know - we were in one.

 

I don’t get why O calls it a suite.  The other categories above it are suites and very nice ones, too.  The PH is just a verandah cabin.

 

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, Wakepatrol said:

That’s a good point. We booked it awhile ago when Covid was slowing down. We booked the Ascent for next March and it was very expensive compared to previous we have booked. The sumner cruises in Florida which they used to give away are now a fortune and sold out?

How can that be?  You hear 20 times a day how cheap cruises are.

[cruisemom42]

39 minutes ago, kazu said:

I don’t get why O calls it a suite.  

 

I'm guessing so that people know it comes with a butler. 

🤣

[Laminator]

Passport applications were up 30% last year and are up even higher so far this year. As you all know the delays for receiving your passports are extremely long. These people aren't applying to travel from New York to New Jersey. It's either international air travel, a cruise or a combination of both. Cruises will be at higher capacity and more expensive. 

[tupper10]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:01 PM, julia said:

Well, I would have killed for some "QUIET" on our recent 35 night Koningsdam!  The non-stop, loud, techno-crap music played 24/7 EVERYWHERE, and most sadly, in the Crow's Nest.  There was no peace and quiet, aside from our balcony. It was grating and annoying, and many were complaining (including myself). I was fed the excuse that "this is what Seattle wants" (basically ignoring the older demographics of a lengthy cruise).  So... good luck with that Seattle, our next cruise is on Oceania.

This is our complaint on almost all cruise ships. I don't understand why the powers that be think this awful non stop music is what we want to hear.  I have tried to escape it to no avail. Unfortunately we can't sail on Oceania or Azamara as they both use latex gloves for all their food preparation and I am allergic to latex.  

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

As to HAL’s pricing model it also reflects the bifurcation.  The grand voyages and the new Ultimate voyages are higher per day than the standard cruises where they have to compete not only with their peers but all of the budget cruise lines.  Hey - it pays the bills.  
 

the grands and ultimates are supposed to offer better enrichment, better food and better entertainment but that has been inconsistent 

HAL can charge more for the Grand and ultimate voyages because they are unique. No one else offers such itineraries out of the US   focused, adult mass market lines.

 

As far the the shorter cruises on the ones I have checked HAL fares have tended to be more than Princess, but less than Celebrity. This included most areas except the Caribbean. I do not know how their Caribbean compare.

[00649]

We were on the Koningsdam for 35 days South Pacific in March.Was one of the best cruises we have been on and we are four star .Sure there is the odd little issue here and there but with a full ship that’s to be expected. Everyone on the cruise was enjoying themselves right up till disembarkment. We were also on the Zaandam this spring in Mexico.Although not near as much entertainment , it was also a great cruise.We have four HAL cruises booked over the next 18 months , can’t wait.

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, tupper10 said:

This is our complaint on almost all cruise ships. I don't understand why the powers that be think this awful non stop music is what we want to hear.  I have tried to escape it to no avail. Unfortunately we can't sail on Oceania or Azamara as they both use latex gloves for all their food preparation and I am allergic to latex.  

I suspect they think so because they have all.of the data from surveys, focus groups, complaints, etc. Data that they then use to make such decisions.  Far more data then we have with a relatively small sample of individual opinions.

[Mary229]

9 hours ago, ldtr said:

HAL can charge more for the Grand and ultimate voyages because they are unique. No one else offers such itineraries out of the US   focused, adult mass market lines.

 

As far the the shorter cruises on the ones I have checked HAL fares have tended to be more than Princess, but less than Celebrity. This included most areas except the Caribbean. I do not know how their Caribbean compare.

Not recently, HAL has been offering some really cheap fares on the shorter Alaskan and Caribbean cruises.   Last winter this forum was littered with first time HAL cruisers lured in by the low fares in the Caribbean who were then disappointed by the lack of amusements 

 

Long cruises are the only cruises for us and the reason we sail with HAL

Edited May 19, 2023 by Mary229

[Globehoppers]

16 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Actually, on O if you book the PH (Penthouse) category, you get a butler.  (For what little use they are).  Note - the Penthouse is not the Penthouse like on HAL - it is a nicely laid out verandah cabin.

 

 

 

Yes.  I was one and done too.  DDDH was especially upset.  The most mild mannered person I know who always told me to do the surveys - took his on O and enclosed a letter to the HD.  

He said he would never step foot on one of those ships again.  I can say a lot of O regulars were very unhappy on that cruise as well.

Fully agree.  Never sailing O again.  

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Not recently, HAL has been offering some really cheap fares on the shorter Alaskan and Caribbean cruises.   Last winter this forum was littered with first time HAL cruisers lured in by the low fares in the Caribbean who were then disappointed by the lack of amusements 

 

Long cruises are the only cruises for us and the reason we sail with HAL

While certainly there are some exceptions on some cruises in some areas, just as there are also some where they are higher than both of their competitors.

 

Hal has 2.8% of cruise industry passengers and 4.6% of cruise industry revenue. a revenue/passenger ratio of 1.64

Princess has 5.9% of passengers and 8.7% of revenue for a ratio of  1.47

Celebrity  has 3.9% of passengers and 6.1% of revenue for a ratio of  1.56.

 

Now looking at data set it would look like HAl gets more revenue per passenger  than either of their primary competitors.  However one should adjust the data for average cruise length. When it come to that data HAL has the longest and Celebrity has the shortest. That impacts the numbers enough to move Celebrity above HAL, but Princess still remains lower.

 

Will be interesting to see when the next data set is released now that ships are back running near full capacity.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by ldtr

[OlsSalt]

9 hours ago, ldtr said:

I suspect they think so because they have all.of the data from surveys, focus groups, complaints, etc. Data that they then use to make such decisions.  Far more data then we have with a relatively small sample of individual opinions.

 

Perhaps HAL management wants to shed their "old people" cruise line imagery.  Therefore, they use this constant piped-in tuneless techno music to give no quarter to "old people", who seek more peace and quiet and will now flee the new HAL brand.

 

Not unlike using classical music in front of 7-11 stores, to discourage unsavory loitering.

 

🙉🙉🙉🤔

[Mary229]

51 minutes ago, ldtr said:

While certainly there are some exceptions on some cruises in some areas, just as there are also some where they are higher than both of their competitors.

 

Hal has 2.8% of cruise industry passengers and 4.6% of cruise industry revenue. a revenue/passenger ratio of 1.64

Princess has 5.9% of passengers and 8.7% of revenue for a ratio of  1.47

Celebrity  has 3.9% of passengers and 6.1% of revenue for a ratio of  1.56.

 

Now looking at data set it would look like HAl gets more revenue per passenger  than either of their primary competitors.  However one should adjust the data for average cruise length. When it come to that data HAL has the longest and Celebrity has the shortest. That impacts the numbers enough to move Celebrity above HAL, but Princess still remains lower.

 

Will be interesting to see when the next data set is released now that ships are back running near full capacity.

 

I think the raw numbers underestimate the impact of the long cruises. Hal fills those ships and has even started dynamic pricing.  

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think the raw numbers underestimate the impact of the long cruises. Hal fills those ships and has even started dynamic pricing.  

Again the comment was in general. The key is where they end up. In this case higher than Princess and lower than Celebrity.  How they get there is their marketing and sales strategy. They have apparently been successful in  doing so since they are in the same range as their competitors.

[reposado]

18 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Actually, on O if you book the PH (Penthouse) category, you get a butler.  (For what little use they are).  

 

I found having the O butler serve you dinner in your room (PH is big enough to accommodate that) ordering any dish from any specialty restaurant was an amazing perk and worth the upgrade. To each their own. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by reposado

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Again the comment was in general. The key is where they end up. In this case higher than Princess and lower than Celebrity.  How they get there is their marketing and sales strategy. They have apparently been successful in  doing so since they are in the same range as their competitors.

Anecdotal evidence for this discussion is it seems that prices for grand and ultimate are increasing going forward.  These cruises are also the ones with the dynamic pricing.    They also include a better overall experience.
 

Then the shorter cruises are cheaper and constantly on sale.  I think perhaps the shut down and start up gave insight into just how much money you need to break even and they are using those short cruises to break even with any extra expenditures such as HIA and excursions as profit.  I was told by a HAL manager that HIA is “paying the mortgage”. I think more correctly it is making the sailing profitable.  I expect soon they will also start offering an in house financing arrangement with one of the internet services. Those services profit share with the client, in this case that would be the cruise line.  

 

In conclusion what I am trying to say is the new chosen niche of travelers of any age on long voyages are profitably run currently.  

The shorter cruises have adopted the model of break even fares with plenty of add ons driving the profits .  Two different models under one umbrella.   This handily explains the differences people are reporting in experiences.    

[cruisemom42]

13 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

This handily explains the differences people are reporting in experiences.    

 

So you think that only Grand and Ultimate cruises will have things like speakers, enrichment?  

 

That is disappointing. I can see not having it on repeating 7-day cruises from Seattle or Fort Lauderdale, but one would think a month-long cruise around Japan would merit more...

 

[Mary229]

21 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

So you think that only Grand and Ultimate cruises will have things like speakers, enrichment?  

 

That is disappointing. I can see not having it on repeating 7-day cruises from Seattle or Fort Lauderdale, but one would think a month-long cruise around Japan would merit more...

 

I think they are drawing a line.  These cruises, grands and ultimates, are more expensive per day.  As I said in a prior post “we await the execution of this new focus”.  I strongly prefer long sailings, not strings or B2B, and have not had the complaints I see on this forum - complaints I completely believe.  
 

As to the cruises I have been on there has been a quantity of enrichment, I cannot say I was impressed with the overall quality though there were some shining moments.  I do think for the grands they do select more experienced, proven cruise directors, house bands and shore excursion managers.  That selectivity seems to also extend to the dining room managers, wine stewards and other key public forward positions.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, reposado said:

 

I found having the O butler serve you dinner in your room (PH is big enough to accommodate that) ordering any dish from any specialty restaurant was an amazing perk and worth the upgrade. To each their own. 

 

That would have been nice indeed.  It was never offered to us.  Our butler did very little for us and was not helpful IMO.

[reposado]

3 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

That would have been nice indeed.  It was never offered to us.  Our butler did very little for us and was not helpful IMO.

 

Its a perk to everyone PH or above but yes its unfortunate you were not informed/aware of it. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by reposado

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Anecdotal evidence for this discussion is it seems that prices for grand and ultimate are increasing going forward.  These cruises are also the ones with the dynamic pricing.    They also include a better overall experience.
 

Then the shorter cruises are cheaper and constantly on sale.  I think perhaps the shut down and start up gave insight into just how much money you need to break even and they are using those short cruises to break even with any extra expenditures such as HIA and excursions as profit.  I was told by a HAL manager that HIA is “paying the mortgage”. I think more correctly it is making the sailing profitable.  I expect soon they will also start offering an in house financing arrangement with one of the internet services. Those services profit share with the client, in this case that would be the cruise line.  

 

In conclusion what I am trying to say is the new chosen niche of travelers of any age on long voyages are profitably run currently.  

The shorter cruises have adopted the model of break even fares with plenty of add ons driving the profits .  Two different models under one umbrella.   This handily explains the differences people are reporting in experiences.    

Certainly using some popular short routes as a loss leader is not uncommon in the industry. If it brings in a number of cruisers to try the line then even if a relatively small percentage becomes repeat customers then HAL wins. They are continuing to work on changing the demographic and they need to get people to try the line. Cheap cruises in short high volume areas would certainly do that.

[OlsSalt]

6 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I think they are drawing a line.  These cruises, grands and ultimates, are more expensive per day.  As I said in a prior post “we await the execution of this new focus”.  I strongly prefer long sailings, not strings or B2B, and have not had the complaints I see on this forum - complaints I completely believe.  
 

As to the cruises I have been on there has been a quantity of enrichment, I cannot say I was impressed with the overall quality though there were some shining moments.  I do think for the grands they do select more experienced, proven cruise directors, house bands and shore excursion managers.  That selectivity seems to also extend to the dining room managers, wine stewards and other key public forward positions.

 

Anyone know if the crew like these longer cruises on the smaller ships better? I would assume they would, but have heard the crews like the newer ships - the shorter cruise over and over cruises.

 

Wonder also since there are more chances to get to know each other on the longer cruises, if the additional personal tipping is more dedicated and generous as well.

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Anyone know if the crew like these longer cruises on the smaller ships better? I would assume they would, but have heard the crews like the newer ships - the shorter cruise over and over cruises.

 

Wonder also since there are more chances to get to know each other on the longer cruises, if the additional personal tipping is more dedicated and generous as well.

The crew that I’ve talked to does like the shorter cruises.  Speaking of the  bar staff only. 

[Mtn2Sea]

26 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Anyone know if the crew like these longer cruises on the smaller ships better? I would assume they would, but have heard the crews like the newer ships - the shorter cruise over and over cruises.

 

Wonder also since there are more chances to get to know each other on the longer cruises, if the additional personal tipping is more dedicated and generous as well.

We just finished this year’s 128 day world cruise.  A very good dining steward in the MDR volunteered that he prefers the longer cruises because he finds the work easier.  He gets to know people’s desires and then doesn’t have to learn new people’s desires until the next cruise - makes his life as a server a little simpler.

[REOVA]

1 hour ago, Mtn2Sea said:

We just finished this year’s 128 day world cruise.  A very good dining steward in the MDR volunteered that he prefers the longer cruises because he finds the work easier.  He gets to know people’s desires and then doesn’t have to learn new people’s desires until the next cruise - makes his life as a server a little simpler.

Not only the cruise lengths but they like the smaller ships better. They can handle the ships better and are not as rushed so they can enjoy the passenger interaction.