After Reading Numerous Posts over the last Several Weeks, These are my thoughts

[rodndonna]

35 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

 

 

We might be an outlier in that we just like to cruise certain times of the year and sea days can be our favorite days. One big thing going for us on RCCL is mini golf. I never understood why Celebrity and not sure about HAL don't put a classy mini golf course in. Many people in the demographic that they attract golf, so I would think it would go over well like pickleball.

 

 

That's me - I really miss mini-golf! I know, most people would ask - why????

 

Oddly it is the one thing I miss most on HAL and Celebrity.  It's just one of those things you can wander over to any different points in the day or night and evening and play - and unlike Shuffleboard or pickleball, there is always space for anyone who wants to play. 

 

I think it is viewed as a kid's activity and takes a fair amount of space which I guess is why it is not there on HAL or X, but I do miss it.  On HAL I have accustomed to it is another few laps around the promenade instead of minigolf, but I still miss it.

[Mary229]

12 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

If I relied on CC reviews,  I would have never sailed around South America on the Oosterdam. 

People who rage or rave or not the reviews to read , I always read the 3 or 4 star reviews as those may contain useful information.   Someone’s opinion is useless but their detailed descriptions can be golden.  At one time I had a 5 digit following on TripAdvisor, Facebook and Instagram because I wrote useful information and rarely actually gave an opinion except, perhaps, a final notation of recommend versus wouldn’t recommend.  That’s not why people followed me, they followed me because I gave relevant information.  That is how a review should be written. 
 

I also have trouble with people who write into their reviews their lack of preparedness for something going wrong then blaming a third party, like the cruise line,  because the third party didn’t pick up the pieces for them. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Mary229

[Mary229]

@cgolf1  no mini golf (which is a great idea) but we do have corn hole😂

[cruisemom42]

I think good info can be gleaned from reviews if you go about it systematically, as @Mary229 suggests. 

 

Hearing reports from others has always been one part of my decision making process in terms of what cruise lines to try versus which ones wouldn't be a good fit. Knowing the things that matter to me vs. disregarding things that don't matter is another.

 

For example, I don't give a fig for a wrap-around promenade deck -- which features in so many reasons to cruise with HAL -- or about food in the buffet, presence of a library, or suite benefits. None of those things apply to me. Instead I try to read with a critical eye about things like itinerary, port access, MDR food and cabin size/amenities for OV and Inside cabins.

 

 

 

[cgolf1]

17 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I think good info can be gleaned from reviews if you go about it systematically, as @Mary229 suggests. 

 

Hearing reports from others has always been one part of my decision making process in terms of what cruise lines to try versus which ones wouldn't be a good fit. Knowing the things that matter to me vs. disregarding things that don't matter is another.

 

For example, I don't give a fig for a wrap-around promenade deck -- which features in so many reasons to cruise with HAL -- or about food in the buffet, presence of a library, or suite benefits. None of those things apply to me. Instead I try to read with a critical eye about things like itinerary, port access, MDR food and cabin size/amenities for OV and Inside cabins.

 

 

 

Never many trip reports on the boards from inside and oceanview rooms. We were pleasantly surprised by the crazy amount of storage and the room size for the Zaandam inside room. Oddly from sailing the Disney magic so many times, the Zaandam felt familiar being a Fincantieri build of the same vintage, magic was built there too. I honestly felt right at home. 
 

We always try to include pictures in the reviews to let people know how usable the space is. I wish more people posted about them as well on here to be able to discuss the pros and cons more. 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

24 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I think good info can be gleaned from reviews if you go about it systematically, as @Mary229 suggests. 

 

Hearing reports from others has always been one part of my decision making process in terms of what cruise lines to try versus which ones wouldn't be a good fit. Knowing the things that matter to me vs. disregarding things that don't matter is another.

 

For example, I don't give a fig for a wrap-around promenade deck -- which features in so many reasons to cruise with HAL -- or about food in the buffet, presence of a library, or suite benefits. None of those things apply to me. Instead I try to read with a critical eye about things like itinerary, port access, MDR food and cabin size/amenities for OV and Inside cabins.

 

 

 

We agree with you .     And want happened or we got 6 years ago.. or a ship that Holland no longer has.  Live today talk about today. Cruise today. And be happy or stay home.

[ontheweb]

30 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I think good info can be gleaned from reviews if you go about it systematically, as @Mary229 suggests. 

 

Hearing reports from others has always been one part of my decision making process in terms of what cruise lines to try versus which ones wouldn't be a good fit. Knowing the things that matter to me vs. disregarding things that don't matter is another.

 

For example, I don't give a fig for a wrap-around promenade deck -- which features in so many reasons to cruise with HAL -- or about food in the buffet, presence of a library, or suite benefits. None of those things apply to me. Instead I try to read with a critical eye about things like itinerary, port access, MDR food and cabin size/amenities for OV and Inside cabins.

 

 

 

And I remember when I pointed out to you a thread on a different cruise line board that I had started about whether fellow passengers would eat meals with strangers. And when you saw the attitude of why would I ever want to eat with someone I do not know, you basically eliminated that cruise line from your future cruise consideration.

[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And I remember when I pointed out to you a thread on a different cruise line board that I had started about whether fellow passengers would eat meals with strangers. And when you saw the attitude of why would I ever want to eat with someone I do not know, you basically eliminated that cruise line from your future cruise consideration.

 

Very true. 🤣  I had booked that cruise primarily because the itinerary was so good for the price but was already second-guessing myself when your post came along. That was the final nail.  

[ontheweb]

4 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Very true. 🤣  I had booked that cruise primarily because the itinerary was so good for the price but was already second-guessing myself when your post came along. That was the final nail.  

And we are going on that line for what we consider a fine itinerary, but as you pointed out my situation cruising with my DW is different than yours cruising solo.

Edited May 17, 2023 by ontheweb
LOL finished the word solo

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

And we are going on that line for what we consider a fine itinerary, but as you pointed out my situation cruising with my DW is different than yours cruising so

 

Exactly -- which is why I emphasize that it's important to read reviews with your own requirements in mind and disregard other "noise".  Dining alone for more than two weeks would not be my cup of tea at all, but I'm sure dining with your DW is completely acceptable!

 

[DCThunder]

1 hour ago, rodndonna said:

 

That's me - I really miss mini-golf! I know, most people would ask - why????

 

You should move to or come visit Myrtle Beach.  It's the mini-golf capital of the world.⛳  Drive down US 17 and there's one course after another all the way to Murrells Inlet.

[Haljo1935]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

@cgolf1  no mini golf (which is a great idea) but we do have corn hole😂

Love the Corn Hole - to watch, not play as I'm horrible at it 🙃 

[BermudaBound2014]

11 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

IMHO. It is possible to compare food and entertainment directly between different cruise brands. Everyone will have their favourite food, restaurant and dining hours. Ditto for the entertainment.

 

Respectfully disagree. 

 

You can not even compare food and entertainment offered WITHIN each brand as each ship is vastly different let alone try to compare brand to brand. The comparisons just don't work anymore.  Few examples:

 

RCL Small ships: Traditional theatre entertainment, a lounge or two.

RCL Big Ships: Traditional theatre entertainment, Ice Capades show, Aqua Show, Comedy Club, Music Hall, 270, (I'm probably missing some).

 

NCL Smaller ships: Traditional Theater, a lounge or two.

NCL Away Class Ships: Traditional Theatre, Howl at the Moon, Jazz/Blues Club, Brew House, not to mention that on their larger ships the traditional theatre entertainment blows away any of the competition in both quality and scale so it is absolutely impossible to compare Jewel Class entertainment offerings to  Away class entertainment (both on NCL).

 

Food is very subjective, but I think we only need to read a few posts here to see that food quality also varies greatly between each ship (I do wish there was more consistency). While quality is subjective, even then you can not compare food offerings between individual cruise ships within a cruise line (let along cruise line to cruise line).  

 

An example of food offerings which differ within brands is Carnival (there are others). Small carnival ships have the main dining room, lido, a few specialty, and random walk ups like Guys Burgers. The new Carnival Excel class offers the traditional main dining room, lido, a few paid specialty, AND an Italian restaurant complementary, a Mexican and Chinese restaurant complementary, Pig and Anchor, Seafood Shack, Tapas, etc....

 

Sure we can paint with broader strokes and say that generally RCL attracts families while HAL attracts retirees but RCL's older ships attract more retirees than they do families simply because their older ships don't offer as many family friendly things to do. Even that broad comparison requires looking specifically at each ship.

 

As you see, there are VAST differences in both food and entertainment options when comparing cruise ships within cruise lines let alone entire lines. When comparing HAL to RCL one must compare specific ship offerings. HAL is a bit unique in that they have kept their entertainment and specialty offerings pretty consistent among the fleet (pinnacle, tamarad, music hall), but other cruise lines have gone an entirely different direction. I know you concentrate solely on HAL so maybe you were unaware of how different cruise ships have become, but to make an accurate comparison, one simply must compare cruise ship A to Cruise ship B. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[cgolf1]

34 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

As you see, there are VAST differences in both food and entertainment options when comparing cruise ships within cruise lines let alone entire lines. When comparing HAL to RCL one must compare specific ship offerings. HAL is a bit unique in that they have kept their entertainment and specialty offerings pretty consistent among the fleet (pinnacle, tamarad, music hall), but other cruise lines have gone an entirely different direction. I know you concentrate solely on HAL so maybe you were unaware of how different cruise ships have become, but to make an accurate comparison, one simply must compare cruise ship A to Cruise ship B. 

 

Celebrity Edge class is a great example of this especially with the music choices which trend younger a we applaud the choice they made there, but the majority likely not so much. That said there are quite a few Celebrity folks that won't step foot on the Edge class. 

 

We do our best to research the ships before we go. Even our most recent on the Zaandam we booked a month before sailing, we wore out you tube and read the boards a lot in a day before we booked. That way we can either pick the itinerary or the ship that suits us. HAL wasn't a perfect fit for us, as my review showed, but there will never be a perfect fit so we roll with it:)

Edited May 17, 2023 by cgolf1

[BermudaBound2014]

10 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Celebrity Edge class is a great example of this....

 

No doubt! Heck, there are even pretty substantial differences in entertainment and restaurant offerings between the M class and the S class on Celebrity and the Edge class is a who new level.

 

And I never thought I would say this, but I'm trying the Carnival Excel class. The dining choices on that class of ship is more extensive than any ship I have researched but the complimentary adult-only serenity area sealed the deal. Of course it was a casino offer so that helped 😉 

[OlsSalt]

Rather than compete with those other cruise lines onboard distractions, HAL's niche is offering a retreat from them.

 

HAL needs to concentrate  being the destination travel cruse line option, not the floating convention hotel bus trip cruise line.  There is room in the cruise market for both niches. 

[OlsSalt]

For every person who says HAL is boring and for old people, I say ...bye.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

3 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Rather than compete with those other cruise lines onboard distractions, HAL's niche is offering a retreat from them.

 

HAL needs to concentrate  being the destination travel cruse line option, not the floating convention hotel bus trip cruise line.  There is room in the cruise market for both niches. 

This would be a good niche if HAL was Consistent with their food quality, offerings and management. One never knows if the Pinnacle Grill will be a good one sailing you are on or not. Same with Main Dining Room, Lido, Tamarind. This has been that way for many years. Back in the day when I easily did 4 HAL cruises a year they would be different unless I cruise the same ship just a month or two apart. I have never ever found that on Norwegian. They are probably the most consistent cruise line I have ever sailed. Princess varies but not as drastically as HAL as done for year.   I have been told my management many years ago that a lot depends on what the revenue from cabin sales is for a projected week and provisions ordered and used are based on that. It stand to reason if they are having to give away the staterooms they are not going to spend a whole lot of provisions.

If HAL wants to really concentrate on their niche passengers and earn more revenue per stateroom they need to become more consistent and not cheapen their product. People will be wanting to return and willing to pay more.

[BermudaBound2014]

8 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I have been told my management many years ago that a lot depends on what the revenue from cabin sales is for a projected week and provisions ordered and used are based on that.

 

That is VERY interesting and the first time I've ever heard this strategy mentioned. Might explain why all the recent extremely deeply discounted 7 days Alaska sailings were problematic. Thanks for sharing.

[cruisemom42]

13 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I have been told my management many years ago that a lot depends on what the revenue from cabin sales is for a projected week and provisions ordered and used are based on that. It stand to reason if they are having to give away the staterooms they are not going to spend a whole lot of provisions.

 

I have long suspected that some cruise lines do this. It would also explain why quite a few Celebrity cruisers on short (e.g., 5-day) itineraries in the Caribbean at low prices have complained about normally available food items being missing....  (I'm not talking about the unfortunate tsunami of cuts on X that took place early in 2023 but other times....)

 

[cruisemom42]

29 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Rather than compete with those other cruise lines onboard distractions, HAL's niche is offering a retreat from them.

 

HAL needs to concentrate  being the destination travel cruse line option, not the floating convention hotel bus trip cruise line.  There is room in the cruise market for both niches. 

 

Is HAL really equipped to do that at present?  Their 3 newest and largest ships do not lend themselves all that well to destination travel. And even with their other ships HAL seem to be running an awful lot of short cruises currently (yes, some can be hooked together, but that's a different kind of experience).

 

Take the Mediterranean, an area I feel I can talk about knowledgeably given the many cruises I've done there. HAL used to be a place I would look for interesting new ports or itineraries in the Med. This summer, unless I am missing something, it seems they only have one ship in the Mediterranean, the Oosterdam. And her itineraries are not very inspiring. 😥

 

For destination travelers who have already done the basic cookie-cutter Med itineraries, where the ports to tempt one? Where are Gythion, Pula, Sousse, Antalya, Monemvasia, Portovenere, Sete, Tarragona, Ithaca, Ancona?  Are they all cut because current HAL ships are too large?

 

 

[MISTER 67]

5 hours ago, albingirl said:

Using rave reviews to make decisions is not particularly analytical.  People who write reviews on cruise critic are a small subset of the overall number of people who cruise on HAL. If you don't cruise with HAL, then you are in no position to make comparisons.

We are 4 Star Mariners and have been cruising with them since the early 90s, with a total of 70 cruises I think I’ve forgotten more about cruises than most people will ever know including maybe you.

Edited May 17, 2023 by MISTER 67

[*Miss G*]

9 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

For every person who says HAL is boring and for old people, I say ...bye.

 

I am not invested in nightlife or production shows when I go on a cruise.  I choose the production, artist(s) and theatre I want to see when I’m on land.  The highlight of HAL, for me, is the connection to the sea.  There is nothing more wonderful than enjoying the great outdoors from a purpose-built ship.

 

Port activities keep me busy during the day.  I really love the educational aspect, on sea days, through lectures and sailaway narration, as well as Ask the Captain and cooking show demonstrations.  The one with David Burke had me howling, as did Captain Kevin Beirnaert‘s talk.

 

At night I enjoy the music offerings and am quite happy to fall into bed before midnight for another early start and busy schedule.  That, to me, is not boring.  It is fulfilling.  Interestingly, the oldest demographic I have ever seen was on a Princess ship.  

 

If HAL passengers aren’t up late into the evening or do not require scheduled packaged entertainment, I am alright with that.  If they want to find a relaxing place to read a book and enjoy being at sea, I am alright with that too.  If they want to eat alone or are more social and want to eat with others, go for it.  

 

What I don’t understand is the need to denigrate a line and its passengers for things which others do or do not like to do.  If HAL doesn’t suit someone’s lifestyle, find something which does and move on.  (Or they could moan about why they don’t like HAL and sail with them anyway, ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people are warped like that.)

[bennybear]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Is HAL really equipped to do that at present?  Their 3 newest and largest ships do not lend themselves all that well to destination travel. And even with their other ships HAL seem to be running an awful lot of short cruises currently (yes, some can be hooked together, but that's a different kind of experience).

 

Take the Mediterranean, an area I feel I can talk about knowledgeably given the many cruises I've done there. HAL used to be a place I would look for interesting new ports or itineraries in the Med. This summer, unless I am missing something, it seems they only have one ship in the Mediterranean, the Oosterdam. And her itineraries are not very inspiring. 😥

 

For destination travelers who have already done the basic cookie-cutter Med itineraries, where the ports to tempt one? Where are Gythion, Pula, Sousse, Antalya, Monemvasia, Portovenere, Sete, Tarragona, Ithaca, Ancona?  Are they all cut because current HAL ships are too large?

 

 

After many med cruises, I would give my eye teeth for some unusual ports.  I seem to only find them on the more high end cruises.  

 

7 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

I am not invested in nightlife or production shows when I go on a cruise.  I choose the production, artist(s) and theatre I want to see when I’m on land.  The highlight of HAL, for me, is the connection to the sea.  There is nothing more wonderful than enjoying the great outdoors from a purpose-built ship.

 

Port activities keep me busy during the day.  I really love the educational aspect, on sea days, through lectures and sailaway narration, as well as Ask the Captain and cooking show demonstrations.  The one with David Burke had me howling, as did Captain Kevin Beirnaert‘s talk.

 

At night I enjoy the music offerings and am quite happy to fall into bed before midnight for another early start and busy schedule.  That, to me, is not boring.  It is fulfilling.  Interestingly, the oldest demographic I have ever seen was on a Princess ship.  

 

If HAL passengers aren’t up late into the evening or do not require scheduled packaged entertainment, I am alright with that.  If they want to find a relaxing place to read a book and enjoy being at sea, I am alright with that too.  If they want to eat alone or are more social and want to eat with others, go for it.  

 

What I don’t understand is the need to denigrate a line and its passengers for things which others do or do not like to do.  If HAL doesn’t suit someone’s lifestyle, find something which does and move on.  (Or they could moan about why they don’t like HAL and sail with them anyway, ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people are warped like that.)

Plus one! 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

I am not invested in nightlife or production shows when I go on a cruise.  I choose the production, artist(s) and theatre I want to see when I’m on land.  The highlight of HAL, for me, is the connection to the sea.  There is nothing more wonderful than enjoying the great outdoors from a purpose-built ship.

 

Port activities keep me busy during the day.  I really love the educational aspect, on sea days, through lectures and sailaway narration, as well as Ask the Captain and cooking show demonstrations.  The one with David Burke had me howling, as did Captain Kevin Beirnaert‘s talk.

 

At night I enjoy the music offerings and am quite happy to fall into bed before midnight for another early start and busy schedule.  That, to me, is not boring.  It is fulfilling.  Interestingly, the oldest demographic I have ever seen was on a Princess ship.  

 

If HAL passengers aren’t up late into the evening or do not require scheduled packaged entertainment, I am alright with that.  If they want to find a relaxing place to read a book and enjoy being at sea, I am alright with that too.  If they want to eat alone or are more social and want to eat with others, go for it.  

 

What I don’t understand is the need to denigrate a line and its passengers for things which others do or do not like to do.  If HAL doesn’t suit someone’s lifestyle, find something which does and move on.  (Or they could moan about why they don’t like HAL and sail with them anyway, ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people are warped like that.)

 

I take your point -- but also HAL needs to do a better job with consistency. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but on 28 days on the Westerdam, we had nary a single cooking demonstration, lectures were extremely sparse (on the first half of the cruise, the port info lectures were not even given live), and HAL removed one of the "pillars" of their night-time music (Lincoln Center Stage) without any attempt at replacement. 

 

It is difficult when others are praising all of these "opportunities" to understand why they are not offered consistently across the fleet?  And perhaps those who experience such enriching cruises can also try to understand that others DO have differing experiences...