Confused about back to back cruise

[PandaBear62]

So I tried to book a back to back cruise for October. Cruise 1 is Seattle to Vancouver, with a stop in Victoria. Cruise 2 is Vancouver to San Francisco with no ports.

I could not book them back to back. I understand this is because of the Passenger Vessel Services Act (right?) but I don’t quite understand why. Can someone explain it to me?

i understand you have to go to a foreign port. But I thought that was just for cruises that originate and end in the US. The agent said Canadian and Mexican ports don’t count?  If the cruises are together as one, meaning departing and returning to a US port, then Victoria is the “foreign port” . If this doesn’t count, how does it work with the weekend Mexican cruises that go only to Ensenada?

I'm not trying to argue about it, I just don’t understand and want to.

thanks!

 

 

[cr8tiv1]

The most direct reason is that you are getting on the ship in Seattle and getting off the ship in San Francisco.  Two US cities on the same ship.  Therefore in violation of the PVSA.  It doesn't matter what happens in between.

[Coral]

Long story short - you can not start in one US city on the West coast and get off in another US West coast city.

 

You have to visit a distant foreign port, not just a foreign port. The definition of "distant" is sort of confusing so I won't get into that.

 

This is illegal. If you spend the night in Vancouver or switch ships or cruise lines for the 2nd cruise, you will be fine.

 

------

 

Mexico and Ensenada works because you leave and return to the same US port (closed loop cruise).

Edited June 11, 2023 by Coral

[PandaBear62]

1 minute ago, Coral said:

Long story short - you can not start in one US city on the West coast and get off in another US West coast city.

 

You have to visit a distant foreign port, not just a foreign port. The definition of "distant" is sort of confusing so I won't get into that.

 

This is illegal. If you spend the night in Vancouver or switch ships or cruise lines for the 2nd cruise, you will be fine.

 

------

 

Mexico and Ensenada works because you leave and return to the same US port (closed loop cruise).

Thank you! That clarifies it for me….it has to do with the same versus different departure and arrival ports.

[Coral]

2 minutes ago, PandaBear62 said:

Thank you! That clarifies it for me….it has to do with the same versus different departure and arrival ports.

Yes.

[LeeW]

During the fall it is fairly easy to book a cruise from LA or SF to Vancouver,  stay a day or two, and then a different ship south.   Not only do you get a lot of cruise credits but suites can be cheap.  We did this when we were getting close to Elite.   Vancouver is a great place to spend a few days.

[cr8tiv1]

36 minutes ago, LeeW said:

During the fall it is fairly easy to book a cruise from LA or SF to Vancouver,  stay a day or two, and then a different ship south.   Not only do you get a lot of cruise credits but suites can be cheap.  We did this when we were getting close to Elite.   Vancouver is a great place to spend a few days.

 

Wouldn't the Fall Repositioning cruises bring ships south from the Alaska season? In the Fall, you could possibly catch a ride on a ship that goes from Seattle to Vancouver (1 night) and then down to Los Angeles or San Francisco.

 

Spring is when the ships head north from LA or San Francisco to Alaska.  They would have to go to Vancouver and then do a one night cruise to start their season from Seattle.  

 

Repositioning cruises are lots of fun.  Often time, they are not as full.  No kids.  and the fares are much less since it bookends the busy and popular Alaskan Summer.

 

I am not familiar with cruise ships going up to Vancouver in the Fall.  That would be a nice cruise time.  Please tell me more.

[Thrak]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:40 PM, Coral said:

You have to visit a distant foreign port, not just a foreign port. The definition of "distant" is sort of confusing so I won't get into that.

 

 

For a "distant" foreign port it pretty much just means anything not on the North American Continent which means Mexico and Canada don't count.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Thrak

[Coral]

14 minutes ago, Thrak said:

 

For a "distant" foreign port it pretty much just means anything not on the North American Continent which means Mexico and Canada don't count.

It is the Caribbean where it gets confusing. Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao are considered "distant foreign ports".

 

Thus, I chose not to try to define it. 

[milogurd]

The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) requires that cruise ships sailing between two US ports stop at a foreign port at least once during the voyage.

 

1. Round trip cruises that start and end at the SAME US port must stop at a NEAR foreign port at least once during the voyage.

"Near" ports include those in Canada, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. That’s why round trip Alaska cruises from Seattle stop in Victoria, BC on the way back, and round trip voyages from Los Angeles or San Francisco to Hawaii include a port stop in Mexico (usually Ensenada).

 

2. When the cruise starts in one US port and ends at ANOTHER US port, the ship must stop at a DISTANT (or far) foreign port at least once.

The nearest “distant” foreign ports to the US are in South America. Trinidad & Tobago and the ABC islands - Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao - lie on the Southern American Continental shelf and therefore, geographically speaking, are considered to be in South America and as such, qualify as DISTANT foreign ports.

[Torfamm]

On 6/10/2023 at 9:26 PM, PandaBear62 said:

So I tried to book a back to back cruise for October. Cruise 1 is Seattle to Vancouver, with a stop in Victoria. Cruise 2 is Vancouver to San Francisco with no ports.

I could not book them back to back. I understand this is because of the Passenger Vessel Services Act (right?) but I don’t quite understand why. Can someone explain it to me?

i understand you have to go to a foreign port. But I thought that was just for cruises that originate and end in the US. The agent said Canadian and Mexican ports don’t count?  If the cruises are together as one, meaning departing and returning to a US port, then Victoria is the “foreign port” . If this doesn’t count, how does it work with the weekend Mexican cruises that go only to Ensenada?

I'm not trying to argue about it, I just don’t understand and want to.

thanks!

 

 

The difference in your examples is that you are not returning to your port of embarkation. You are effectively traveling from Seattle to San Francisco. If you are transported from one US port to another by a ship not registered in the US, it must stop at a “distant foreign port”. That would not include Canada.  

 

A closed loop (round trip) that starts and ends in the same port just has to visit a foreign port which could include Canada, Mexico, or a Caribbean island.

[Barry H]

We had a similar situation a few years ago when we booked a B2B Canada New England cruise: New York to Quebec City and then Quebec City to New York. When the harbor master changed the return trip dock from New York to New Jersey we were no longer in compliance with the PVSA.

Since the ship did an overnight in Quebec City at the end and start of the cruises the solution was for us to disembark in Quebec City one day early, stay overnight in a hotel and then embark the next day with the new passengers. LOL We considered our Quebec City stay as an overnight excursion and booked two local tours.

[doraohio]

Sept 29 and btb Oct 6, 2023 Ovation of Seas RCCL is not allowing because Victoria and Vancouver are not far away ports in eye of this law. So cancel both or choose one. Or add a 15 day to New Zealand. The took our money in Mar and Final pay July 3 and on July 8 sent us a letter about cancel. Why did they let this happen if the law was in effect for some time. Devatasted. 

[skynight]

7 hours ago, doraohio said:

Sept 29 and btb Oct 6, 2023 Ovation of Seas RCCL is not allowing because Victoria and Vancouver are not far away ports in eye of this law. So cancel both or choose one. Or add a 15 day to New Zealand. The took our money in Mar and Final pay July 3 and on July 8 sent us a letter about cancel. Why did they let this happen if the law was in effect for some time. Devatasted. 

You should post this on RCCL boards, and file any complaints with RCCL. This is a Princess site.

You were booked to board in Seattle and disembark in Honolulu. These are two different U.S. ports without visiting a distant foreign port which is a violation of the PVSA. Your cruise line should have never allowed you to book this itinerary.

Edited July 9, 2023 by skynight

[charliedalrymple]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:32 AM, cr8tiv1 said:

The most direct reason is that you are getting on the ship in Seattle and getting off the ship in San Francisco.  Two US cities on the same ship.  Therefore in violation of the PVSA.  It doesn't matter what happens in between.

 

Can anyone explain why the PVSA was written this way?  It makes no sense at all to me, but I'm assuming there was a logical reason why it came into being in the first place.

[Coral]

46 minutes ago, charliedalrymple said:

 

Can anyone explain why the PVSA was written this way?  It makes no sense at all to me, but I'm assuming there was a logical reason why it came into being in the first place.

It was to protect US ship builders (companies) from foreign competition.

 

American Cruise Line, Pearl Cruise Line, Viking River ships in US, Un-cruise, Alaska Dream Cruises, American Queen Voyages, etc... do not have these restrictions. Their ships are built in the US and they must employ US employees and pay US wages. Thus, their sailings are quite a bit more expensive.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Coral

[skynight]

Makes lots of sense. Only U.S. flagged, U.S. staffed and U.S. built ships can sail between different U.S. sea ports without visiting another distant country. It's basic labor protection. The basic law goes back to the 1880's, and I don't think it's about to change anytime soon. 

[cr8tiv1]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

It was to protect US ship builders (companies) from foreign competition.

 

American Cruise Line, Pearl Cruise Line, Viking River ships in US, Un-cruise, Alaska Dream Cruises, American Queen Voyages, etc... do not have these restrictions. Their ships are built in the US and they must employ US employees and pay US wages. Thus, their sailings are quite a bit more expensive.

Add the Pride of America (NCL / one ship) that can sail around the Hawaiian Islands without visiting a foreign port.

 

Similar to why Japan Airlines, Canada Air, or any other foreign airline can not fly within the United States.  

[Steelers36]

6 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

Add the Pride of America (NCL / one ship) that can sail around the Hawaiian Islands without visiting a foreign port.

 

Similar to why Japan Airlines, Canada Air, or any other foreign airline can not fly within the United States.  

And, unfortunately, we don't allow US carriers to fly between Canadian airports (or we would have a lot better competition and pricing up here).  We don't even get SW up here and drive to BUF if we want to fly them.

[DCThunder]

19 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

And, unfortunately, we don't allow US carriers to fly between Canadian airports (or we would have a lot better competition and pricing up here).  We don't even get SW up here and drive to BUF if we want to fly them.

That's also why the airlines developed code sharing and the various airline alliances (OneWorld, Sky Team, Star Alliance) were created.  I can fly United to Munich from the US, but if I want to fly Munich to Rome, I need to be on a Lufthansa flight, even if I bought my ticket from United as a New York to Rome flight.

[Steelers36]

1 minute ago, DCThunder said:

That's also why the airlines developed code sharing and the various airline alliances (OneWorld, Sky Team, Star Alliance) were created.  I can fly United to Munich from the US, but if I want to fly Munich to Rome, I need to be on a Lufthansa flight, even if I bought my ticket from United as a New York to Rome flight.

Yup.  As regards SW, we are serviced by the legacy US airlines and not the more recent significant carriers like SW and JB.

[Coral]

31 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

Add the Pride of America (NCL / one ship) that can sail around the Hawaiian Islands without visiting a foreign port.

 

Similar to why Japan Airlines, Canada Air, or any other foreign airline can not fly within the United States.  

Correct - there was some weird history that allowed for Pride of America to sail in the US - more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America

 

It was being built for another line and it is staffed by individuals mostly from the US.

[cr8tiv1]

11 minutes ago, Coral said:

Correct - there was some weird history that allowed for Pride of America to sail in the US - more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America

 

It was being built for another line and it is staffed by individuals mostly from the US.

 

Senator Inouye had done a lot for the State of Hawaii, except for this one time.  Repealing the PVSA came up for review in Congress.  He voted against it.  There was much discussion on what his influence would do.  

 

Unfortunately, I believe, there was a conflict of interest.  He was a Godfather of one NCL ship and his wife was the Godmother of another NCL ship.  

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/NCL-taps-senator-s-wife-as-Pride-s-godmother

[NavyVeteran]

13 hours ago, Coral said:

It was to protect US ship builders (companies) from foreign competition.

 

American Cruise Line, Pearl Cruise Line, Viking River ships in US, Un-cruise, Alaska Dream Cruises, American Queen Voyages, etc... do not have these restrictions. Their ships are built in the US and they must employ US employees and pay US wages. Thus, their sailings are quite a bit more expensive.

Not completely true. American Queen Voyages uses US flagged ships for their Mississippi River cruises, since these are domestic US cruises. However, they use foreign flagged ships for their Alaska cruises and their Great Lakes cruises, and these cruises have the same PVSA restrictions.

[Coral]

5 hours ago, NavyVeteran said:

Not completely true. American Queen Voyages uses US flagged ships for their Mississippi River cruises, since these are domestic US cruises. However, they use foreign flagged ships for their Alaska cruises and their Great Lakes cruises, and these cruises have the same PVSA restrictions.

Thanks. My thought was the Mississippi River cruises when I wrote that as I had a friend recently on one.