Please, please help me how do I resolve my problem and clear my name

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, vwrestler171 said:

Because you didn't wait for them to refund your money, you filed a claim.  Now you screwed yourself.

Just guessing, but I'm thinking that OP had a non-refundable deposit, which is why Carnival wasn't issuing a refund. $50/$100 would be subtracted from the amount and the remainder would be available as a future credit (the terms of the deposit may have changed since then). This is the main reason for being on the no sail list- had Carnival legitimately owed the OP $250 then it's likely the charge back would likely not have caused this issue. As others have said, the money is still owed to Carnival.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

@ontheweb, usually if a passenger owes a balance either from their current cruise, or an outstanding debt from a previous cruise, they are informed by a Pier Coordinator at check-in, and told if they have any questions about it to speak to Guest Services on the ship.   Shoreside staff only knows the amount of the outstanding balance/debt, not the reason behind it.

 But in this case, the OP never got as far as seeing the check in people. He was informed that he was banned!

[ontheweb]

There was a lot of refunding going on due to the pandemic, and it was slow due to the volume. Many of us waited; we got out Princess refund right about the 90 day mark. Some got impatient, and there were suggestions in the various cruise line forums to get the refund quicker by using the method of a credit card dispute. Some warned that this might very well work quicker to get your money back, but there would be consequences. And now we can see one person, the OP, who suffered the consequences.

[Bound4Bermuda]

Since the OP is speculating, I’m going to throw another conspiracy theory into the mix. Since you received a phone call out of the blue from an agent who talked you into booking, maybe you got scammed and this “cancelation” is from them, and you never had a booking in the first place—which is why no one at Carnival has any clue as to what you’re talking about with this booking. Have you checked your credit card after presumably giving this agent your credit card info? What’s the email address on the cancelation notice? (I’m new to Carnival, so I don’t know what the correct address is, but I have no doubt others here will know what the valid email address is if Carnival really canceled it.) But if this agent who booked it is legitimate, she should be giving you the information on what’s going on. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Bound4Bermuda

[aborgman]

8 hours ago, vwrestler171 said:

Because you didn't wait for them to refund your money, you filed a claim.  Now you screwed yourself.

 

...and this is partially why there needs to be a contractual obligation on the part of providers to process refunds in less than the credit card chargeback time.

 

A service provider should not be able to refund moneys, but hold on to them beyond the 90 days the credit card companies allow for chargebacks and then punish customer for getting back the money they are owed.

 

Now, if we're talking about a non-refundable deposit and you did a chargeback - it's perfectly legitimate to ban that customer.

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

...and this is partially why there needs to be a contractual obligation on the part of providers to process refunds in less than the credit card chargeback time.

 

A service provider should not be able to refund moneys, but hold on to them beyond the 90 days the credit card companies allow for chargebacks and then punish customer for getting back the money they are owed.

 

Now, if we're talking about a non-refundable deposit and you did a chargeback - it's perfectly legitimate to ban that customer.

This whole process was really a one off, outside of anything any company had ever experienced and it affected every cruise line- they all took a long time to process refunds (and many other segments of the travel industry). Now that I recall we had a cruise cancelled because of COVID and we had to wait quite a while for the refund. I also remember all of the threads on CC about this and all of the people saying "just do a charge back". As stated, that rooster has come home to nest and I suspect there will be a lot of folks in the OP's position.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

There was a lot of refunding going on due to the pandemic, and it was slow due to the volume. Many of us waited; we got out Princess refund right about the 90 day mark. Some got impatient, and there were suggestions in the various cruise line forums to get the refund quicker by using the method of a credit card dispute. Some warned that this might very well work quicker to get your money back, but there would be consequences. And now we can see one person, the OP, who suffered the consequences.

 

If you're getting close to the 90 day mark - I wouldn't call it impatience.

 

Past 90 days, if they decide to keep that refund and never give it back to you - you're just out the money absent a lawsuit.

 

.One will note that the ticket contract provides lots of deadlines on the customer for requesting refunds - but none on Carnival. They could take YEARS to process your refund if they desired.

[aborgman]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

This whole process was really a one off, outside of anything any company had ever experienced and it affected every cruise line- they all took a long time to process refunds (and many other segments of the travel industry). Now that I recall we had a cruise cancelled because of COVID and we had to wait quite a while for the refund. I also remember all of the threads on CC about this and all of the people saying "just do a charge back". As stated, that rooster has come home to nest and I suspect there will be a lot of folks in the OP's position.

 

I wish that were true - but LOTS of companies have played this game over the years (airlines have been particularly notorious) long before COVID.

 

There needs to be a contractual/legal obligation put in place which does not allow companies to hang onto refunds people are entitled to for significant periods of time - because particularly in an industry downturn, it's a good way to make money off your customers backs.

 

[BobbiSox]

This whole thing sounds crazy. Can you have another party book your cruise and then sign you up as a passenger? Are they all watching for you that closely? Do they have a poster of your face at the ckeck-in counter? Does someone sit in a Carnival office and look up every potencial passenger by name to see if they are banned? They are in business to sell cruises. I don't know how they selected you, out of millions of passengers, to be banned because of a money mix-up. It's doesn't make much sense. 

[sparks1093]

5 minutes ago, BobbiSox said:

This whole thing sounds crazy. Can you have another party book your cruise and then sign you up as a passenger? Are they all watching for you that closely? Do they have a poster of your face at the ckeck-in counter? Does someone sit in a Carnival office and look up every potencial passenger by name to see if they are banned? They are in business to sell cruises. I don't know how they selected you, out of millions of passengers, to be banned because of a money mix-up. It's doesn't make much sense. 

All it takes is a note in a computer. OP said they don't really want to sail Carnival again anyway, so not sure that doing a fancy booking is something they are in a hurry to do.

[sparks1093]

7 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

I wish that were true - but LOTS of companies have played this game over the years (airlines have been particularly notorious) long before COVID.

 

There needs to be a contractual/legal obligation put in place which does not allow companies to hang onto refunds people are entitled to for significant periods of time - because particularly in an industry downturn, it's a good way to make money off your customers backs.

 

Since the contract always favors the company over the customer I am not going to waste time waiting for a change.

[aborgman]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Since the contract always favors the company over the customer I am not going to waste time waiting for a change.

 

Yep - like with the airlines, it will almost certainly have to come in the form of laws on consumer protection. They aren't going to not write a contract wildly in their favor if they can get away with it.

[nascartim]

It is strange that the OP's agent called them and they were still receiving flyers in the mail this whole time after the possible charge back. You'd think their acct would have been flagged in some manner to prevent both of those instances. I'm sure there are many people that have done a charge back and you'd think carnival has a formula in place for these people. Now, on the other hand, you'd think carnival would be willing to work with these people and come up with some agreement,(maybe just let them pay back what they owed) and move forward and gain a customer back. 

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, nascartim said:

It is strange that the OP's agent called them and they were still receiving flyers in the mail this whole time after the possible charge back. You'd think their acct would have been flagged in some manner to prevent both of those instances. I'm sure there are many people that have done a charge back and you'd think carnival has a formula in place for these people. Now, on the other hand, you'd think carnival would be willing to work with these people and come up with some agreement,(maybe just let them pay back what they owed) and move forward and gain a customer back. 

Two different departments. Yes, they could take the time to do that but probably figure they wouldn't gain back enough customers to justify it. 

[SeaHunt]

Check this old thread from 2021 😉

 

 

It includes this post from @4hunters (BBM):

 

"OP, I was in the exact same situation as you and same thing happened to me (CC denied due to a successful credit card dispute and eventually refunded by Carnival as well). 

 

Forgetting about that whole debacle from last year, I went ahead and booked using a different card with no problems.  A few business days later my cruise was cancelled with no reason given (they sent me a canned email).  I called to try and get an explanation.  The customer service rep couldn't tell me why, only that there was a note in my file that I needed to contact Carnival's accounting dept.  I did and was informed I was on the much famed "Do Not Sail" list! 

 

I was provided instructions for wiring Carnival the money for the cruise from last year and was immediately removed from the list (edit:  AFTER my wired payment was received by CCL).  I'm almost certain you're on the same list as I was.  Recommend you call them and take care of it before trying to book anything with Carnival."

[sammee]

13 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Two different departments. Yes, they could take the time to do that but probably figure they wouldn't gain back enough customers to justify it. 

I'm constantly getting offers from NCL and I'm probably banned. I did a chargeback for March 2020 cruise. I had no choice, they weren't playing nice at all. But I thought it through knowing the risks. I don't care if I don't get to cruise with them. At that time, Carnival seemed to be the most generous with the refunds. Not a lot of complaints except for being slow.

[staceyglow]

21 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Two different departments. Yes, they could take the time to do that but probably figure they wouldn't gain back enough customers to justify it. 

Exactly. They are not going to spend the time and effort to purge the marketing list of the "do not sail" folks. 

 

Besides, the advertising might inspire the person to pay back Carnival so that they can sail again. Win win for CCL. 😊

[broberts]

12 hours ago, TreyB said:

You did a chargeback and burned them out of money that you owed them. They have no obligation to let you sail with them ever again. You don’t deserve any explanation from them. Your name doesn’t deserve to be cleared, you made a choice and now you live with the consequences. Sail on other cruise lines, that’s it. 

 

10 hours ago, vwrestler171 said:

Because you didn't wait for them to refund your money, you filed a claim.  Now you screwed yourself.

 

Making assumptions with no real evidence. Besides, since when are mega corporations always in the right? ... Only on CC when it's a cruise line 🙂.

 

If a company can't be bothered to tell a customer it is owed something and then solicits and sells another product, it seems to me that the company is obligated to deliver the second product. Simply refusing to provide the sold product without an explanation is just bad business practice.

[Joebucks]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

There was a lot of refunding going on due to the pandemic, and it was slow due to the volume. Many of us waited; we got out Princess refund right about the 90 day mark. Some got impatient, and there were suggestions in the various cruise line forums to get the refund quicker by using the method of a credit card dispute. Some warned that this might very well work quicker to get your money back, but there would be consequences. And now we can see one person, the OP, who suffered the consequences.

 

I remember this time all too well. Too many people were screaming that their money wasn't in their hands now and to charge it back. I mean, I get it. It seemed to all be handled well in the end though. People never consider consequences. Only the benefits in the NOW.

 

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

...and this is partially why there needs to be a contractual obligation on the part of providers to process refunds in less than the credit card chargeback time.

 

A service provider should not be able to refund moneys, but hold on to them beyond the 90 days the credit card companies allow for chargebacks and then punish customer for getting back the money they are owed.

 

Now, if we're talking about a non-refundable deposit and you did a chargeback - it's perfectly legitimate to ban that customer.

 

This thread wouldn't be complete without this. An unprecedented pandemic prompted health concerns, mass cancellations, loss of billions, etc. A complete disaster that the cruise lines (or anyone for that matter) wasn't prepared for. Next time, there should just be a giant cancel button on the desk of the CEO so they can be better prepared to refund everyone immediately. Internet warrior needs that discretionary money in their hands immediately. 

[staceyglow]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

 

If a company can't be bothered to tell a customer it is owed something and then solicits and sells another product, it seems to me that the company is obligated to deliver the second product. Simply refusing to provide the sold product without an explanation is just bad business practice.

So, if you get on the "do not sail" list and see a Carnival ad on TV, should Carnival be obligated to sell you a cruise?

[StephPS79]

11 minutes ago, broberts said:

If a company can't be bothered to tell a customer it is owed something and then solicits and sells another product, it seems to me that the company is obligated to deliver the second product. Simply refusing to provide the sold product without an explanation is just bad business practice.

 

Sorry, full disagreement here.  For one, if you do a chargeback, you are fully aware of the expectation for money owed.  You might disagree with owing the money, but that doesn't change the fact that the company thinks you do.  The chargeback does not change that either.

 

Being placed on a "No-Sail List" removes the obligation to deliver the second product.

[teknoge3k]

9 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Sorry, full disagreement here.  For one, if you do a chargeback, you are fully aware of the expectation for money owed.  You might disagree with owing the money, but that doesn't change the fact that the company thinks you do.  The chargeback does not change that either.

 

Being placed on a "No-Sail List" removes the obligation to deliver the second product.

 

It also removes the company from the risk of being burned twice by the same person.

[aborgman]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

This thread wouldn't be complete without this. An unprecedented pandemic prompted health concerns, mass cancellations, loss of billions, etc. A complete disaster that the cruise lines (or anyone for that matter) wasn't prepared for. Next time, there should just be a giant cancel button on the desk of the CEO so they can be better prepared to refund everyone immediately. Internet warrior needs that discretionary money in their hands immediately. 

 

It has been well proven that cruise lines (and airlines, and multiple other providers) were intentionally holding cash and delaying returns to maintain financial solvency.

 

This has also happened repeatedly before COVID, and has happened since COVID.

 

It is not a new phenomenon, nor one unique to the pandemic - it's a systemic problem involving a lack of consumer protections.

 

[4hunters]

1 hour ago, SeaHunt said:

Check this old thread from 2021 😉

 

 

It includes this post from @4hunters (BBM):

 

"OP, I was in the exact same situation as you and same thing happened to me (CC denied due to a successful credit card dispute and eventually refunded by Carnival as well). 

 

Forgetting about that whole debacle from last year, I went ahead and booked using a different card with no problems.  A few business days later my cruise was cancelled with no reason given (they sent me a canned email).  I called to try and get an explanation.  The customer service rep couldn't tell me why, only that there was a note in my file that I needed to contact Carnival's accounting dept.  I did and was informed I was on the much famed "Do Not Sail" list! 

 

I was provided instructions for wiring Carnival the money for the cruise from last year and was immediately removed from the list (edit:  AFTER my wired payment was received by CCL).  I'm almost certain you're on the same list as I was.  Recommend you call them and take care of it before trying to book anything with Carnival."

 

Thanks for finding this and posting for me, SeaHunt!  Saved me the time of finding it myself. 👍  

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, staceyglow said:

So, if you get on the "do not sail" list and see a Carnival ad on TV, should Carnival be obligated to sell you a cruise?

 

Entirely different circumstance. If I understood correctly, OP received a direct solicitation. And company did make a sale, even if not obligated.

 

49 minutes ago, TreyB said:

Nope. Any business has the right to refuse service to anyone as long as it’s not for a discriminatory reason, and they are under no obligation to provide an explanation of why. 
 

This is a pretty simple case. The OP basically took back money from Carnival that was owed to them. Why would it be a good business practice to offer them services again?

 

Certainly a business has a right to refuse service but not after an offer has been made and accepted. Unless the pre stated and explicit sale terms are violated. Certainly an after sale "oh you are on our super secret no sale list" does not qualify. The offer should not have been made in that case. (The excuse that the company is so big one department doesn't know what another is doing would be specious.)

 

Many are assuming that the company feels it was owed an amount. If that were so, the company should demand payment. The absence of such a demand makes me think all those making this assumption are in error.

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by broberts