Unpopular Opinion: I'm excited about the changes to Plus and Premier

[Steelers36]

4 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Well, to test your theory and to verify my own observation and experience, I just logged into both Princess and my warehouse club account.  I searched for the January 2024 world cruise as an example. 

 

On Princess the starting price for an inside per person is $16,399.  On the warehouse, it's $23,399, with my Princess Captains Club number.  

 

Check it out for yourself.  That's why I always put the pencil to it .

 

 

Unfair comparison.  And it should have set off alarm in your head that something must be wrong.

 

Your Princess quote is Standard.

BB is defaulting to Plus (I understand a lot of agencies are doing this "trick" in order to lead customers into the packages, which they may or may not want).  No doubt they will book a Standard (perhaps reluctantly - IDK).  They are also gearing their presentation to cabin selection, so that doesn't align with the bottom PCL quote which is the lead-in GTY. 

 

I'd say that a closer examination is they are selling same as PCL, but adding on a perk or two, plus that BB Shop Card which is in lieu of the cruise discount.

 

The $23,400 seems a bit off, but using that number, I would get 3% off the cruise fare using FCD's.  Then, working with the net difference, I would say my TA discount would be ~$4,782 combined.  I noticed that BB was offering $4,110 cash-back via BB Shop Card (hopefully without an expiry date).  

 

Not quite there and I'd rather having my savings today and not spread out over time with free purchases.  But it does beat PCL no question and it suits some folks, so that's all good.

 

[Steelers36]

4 hours ago, hobo1937 said:

We usually book with BB travel center.  The price that shows up  on their website is the one with the plus package.

. You will also see a note that you can upgrade to premium for a listed amount. If you call them and tell them you want the standard fare they will quote it and it will match what is on the Princess site. Crazy but that is what we have experienced. 

 

 

 

I hear that a lot of agencies present the Plus option upfront and you have to ask or hunt for Standard.  It's all part of selling the packages.

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Interesting.  I travel with the standard and all that I saw with the warehouse club was the higher price and no way to unselect.  That was my example for an expensive cruise.  When I do an actual booking it's all online.  I only call in when I have to because usually it's like talking to someone with a tin can and string telephone.

Yes, that is annoying IMO - that Standard is completely hidden (as far as I can tell spending a couple of minutes shopping the WC from FL that you mentioned).  Looks like a customer needs to call in to an agent to book Standard Fare.  The agency with the 3-day sale in summer presents all fare options in their booking page.  Same with the two agencies I would work with.  

 

PS - I saw this post after replying to the one above in #326.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Steelers36

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Makes sense to a certain extent since it was reported that the agencies receive x% of commission for standard fare, a slightly higher commission for the plus package and an even higher % for the premier package.

IDK if that is exactly true and have not seen any of our TA members chime in to confirm or refute.  

 

What could be happening here is similar to when many guests state their discount is X% and they have looked at the total cruise fare.  So they find they are saving different percentages, depending on the voyage, but it is really the same percentage all the time. 

 

The actual discount is calculated by the agency's discount percent against only the commissionable cruise fare.  There is a fixed dollar amount per day of non-commissionable fare (NCF).  So, it is easy to see that the commissionable portion is much greater on balcony and mini's than an inside, for example.

 

Similarly, the Plus and Premier fare packages are just adding on more commissionable dollars, with no portion as NCF.  PCL subtracts the NCF from total cruise fare to payout whatever it is to the agency.  But if one looks at the commission over the total cruise fare, the percent is going to seem higher because, as the fare increases with Plus and Premier, more of the total fare is subject to commission.

 

All this said, it could be that agencies do earn more points or whatever they get towards more income by selling more Plus and Premier.  I have no idea, but I can see where there could be some additional incentive to sell with packages included.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Steelers36

[CruizinSusan70]

Just now, Steelers36 said:

IDK if that is exactly true and have not seen any of our TA members chime in to confirm or refute.  

 

What could be happening here is similar to when many guests state their discount is X% and they have looked at the total cruise fare.  So they find they are saving different percentages, depending on the voyage, but it is really the same percentage all the time. 

 

The actual discount is calculated by the agency's discount percent against only the commissionable cruise fare.  There is a fixed dollar amount per day of non-commissionable fare (NCF).  So, it is easy to see that the commissionable portion is much greater on balcony and mini's than an inside, for example.

 

Similarly, the Plus and Premier fare packages are just adding on more commissionable dollars, with no portion as NCF.  PCL subtracts the NCF from total cruise fare to payout whatever it is to the agency.  But if one looks at the commission over the total cruise fare, the percent is going to seem higher because, as the fare increases with Plus and Premier, more of the total fare is subject to commission.

 

All this said, it could be that agencies do earn more points or whatever they get towards more income by selling more Plus and Premier.  I have no idea, but I can see where there could be some additional incentive to sell with packages included.

 

It was mentioned in the now locked thread during the travel agent seminar that a poster provided a link to over a week ago.  The higher commissions given to the TA's for selling the plus and premier would obviously be their incentive to push them.

[Steelers36]

4 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

It was mentioned in the now locked thread during the travel agent seminar that a poster provided a link to over a week ago.  The higher commissions given to the TA's for selling the plus and premier would obviously be their incentive to push them.

Yes, I do recall that, but forget the context and if it was just an example.  I don't imagine they would be discussing exact commissions in a webinar because I don't believe all agencies make the same rates from Princess as I am sure volume has a lot to do with it.

[villauk]

6 hours ago, TheMichael said:

 

Let me guess: you bought when they were $50/$80? According to Princess, you can pay the difference and get the new inclusions, if you desire. I booked next year's Eclipse/Panama Canal cruise with Plus after they first raised the price in the spring, so (at least theoretically) the new inclusions should be, well, included.

 

Unless they decide to move those goalposts again. It’s suppose to make it more convenient when you’ve paid your fare in full as you know what you’re getting - not on Princess! 

[Grego]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, wcflats said:

Princess in my opinion is trying to move us long time loyal princess cruisers to another cruise line.  

Why would a company purposely try get loyal passengers that spend a lot of money to move to another cruise line?

[Grego]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:49 AM, drwbrt said:

We are booked on our first Princess cruise on Discovery early next year (traveling with my brother: @New2cruise2022).  We were originally booked on a Plus fare.  We couldn't see the value in photos, prizes, specialty dining and the small upgrade in inclusive drink costs to upgrade from Plus to Premier.  The changes at casual dining, made the switch to Premier much more compelling.  I know, it's weird to be excited to spend more money, but for us it is about value.

 

While we were still Plus we weren't over the moon about Gigi's because we think Slice will deliver good pizza without the wait.  We had little interest in paying the cover for the Salty Dog Gastropub or for paying for Ocean Terrace.  We felt like we could rely on the buffet and the pool-side offerings for anything outside MDR.  We got Plus for the drinks, WiFi, and gratuity.  Once the changes were announced for casual dining, moving to Premier was a no-brainer for us.

 

We anticipate a MUCH LESS CROWDED Gigi's.  We can enjoy Ocean Terrace and the Salty Dog without any concerns about it not being worth the cover charge.  We are crossing our fingers that OceanNow will provide included access to Ocean Terrace and Salty Dog menus.

 

Overall, we feel that upgrading to Premier will provide two things: 1) more dining options to avoid waits, crowds, and improve quality of service; and 2) an true shot at an all-inclusive feeling.  This is where we see the value.

 

We know this isn't for everyone.  A reminder/tip to others though: Premier is perhaps THE WAY to travel with teens.  The parents, passengers 1 and 2 are premier, providing WiFi options for the rest of their traveling party.  This only requires a cheaper soda package and gratuities to put a minor at "Plus" level.  They can eat at the buffet while you get away for casual dining elsewhere.

Well said!

 

[drwbrt]

6 minutes ago, Grego said:

Why would a company purposely try get loyal passengers that spend a lot of money to move to another cruise line?

Loyalty doesn’t guarantee spending lots of money. I’m sure PCL is trying to segment those loyal customers by how much they spend. 

[SargassoPirate]

8 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Yes, that is annoying IMO - that Standard is completely hidden (as far as I can tell spending a couple of minutes shopping the WC from FL that you mentioned).  Looks like a customer needs to call in to an agent to book Standard Fare.  The agency with the 3-day sale in summer presents all fare options in their booking page.  Same with the two agencies I would work with.  

 

PS - I saw this post after replying to the one above in #326.

No problem.  The WC may have been a bad example, but I knew it was expensive.  On an upcoming cruise on the Regal (I ignored my must have of a full promenade since SWMBO is sailing with me) I priced the standard on Princess and the standard at the warehouse and Princess was about 1K cheaper if I recall - however I booked it over 12 months ago before the bean counters took over. 

 

It pays to do due diligence and not grab the first deal that you see, and really put the pencil to it.

 

My tin can and a string description of customer reps doesn't only apply to Princess and the warehouse, but other call centers as well.  It makes me think that companies are either making agents buy their own headsets or the companies are buying the cheapest ones they can find.

 

The last agent I tried to talk to about an appliance issue was in India and talking through a comb kazoo.

 

Time to take SWMBO her morning coffee. 😁

 

[villauk]

8 minutes ago, drwbrt said:

I’m sure PCL is trying to segment those loyal customers by how much they spend. 

 

Wonder if they didn’t allow price drops after booking, would they generate far more income?

[SargassoPirate]

7 minutes ago, drwbrt said:

Loyalty doesn’t guarantee spending lots of money. I’m sure PCL is trying to segment those loyal customers by how much they spend. 

Longtime cruisers who don't spend a lot on the ups and extras are probably considered deadbeats by the industry.  Just like the credit card industry considers folks who pay off their credit card every month deadbeats because the company is not making big bucks off the interest charges and still awarding points for the customer's purchases.  

 

There's a Netflix series called Money Explained.  Episode 2 describes credit card deadbeats.

[kywildcatfanone]

1 hour ago, drwbrt said:

I’m sure PCL is trying to segment those loyal customers by how much they spend. 

Yep, and the medallion is the tool for it.  They are easily about to track your shipboard habits and spending.  It makes it very easy for them. 

[kywildcatfanone]

53 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Longtime cruisers who don't spend a lot on the ups and extras are probably considered deadbeats by the industry.  Just like the credit card industry considers folks who pay off their credit card every month deadbeats because the company is not making big bucks off the interest charges and still awarding points for the customer's purchases.  

 

There's a Netflix series called Money Explained.  Episode 2 describes credit card deadbeats.

Yep, I've seen that, and this is me in both instances 🙂

[Cruise Raider]

15 hours ago, TheMichael said:

As a semi-frugal person, I can tell you that it sucks when a company takes something away that they had been giving you, but charges you the same price. So I understand that from a non-package-buying point of view. It's not the amount, it's the principle.

 

From the package-buying POV, it's also a bit of a shell game to raise the package price and just add in things that it doesn't cost Princess much, if anything, to throw in (and yes, were probably either underutilized, like the fitness classes, or overutilized, like the pizzeria), So I understand that gripe as well, for the same reason.

 

On the other hand, as a semi-frugal person who likes a drink or two on vacation as well as LOTS of espresso, the Plus package was a great value before and remains one now. Once that stops being the case, people will vote with their feet, but until then...

I really appreciate your viewpoints!  
I do tend to disagree with one point you made that it’s about the principle vs the amount.  It’s almost always, if not always, all about the money.  
Looking on the bright side, one can still get pizza upstairs by using their feet.  Both are still complimentary.  You can also not go to the GastroPub for less than it cost before.  Plus, the packages now include pretty good options for those that don’t drink any alcohol. 
Oh and I do agree that we will definitely see a price increase on the packages around the beginning of 2024.  I have a 10 day cruise booked for next year with the old plus package price and I’m tempted to upgrade to the premier package right now before that price increase I anticipate.  

[PMGS247]

1 hour ago, kywildcatfanone said:

Yep, and the medallion is the tool for it.  They are easily about to track your shipboard habits and spending.  It makes it very easy for them. 

 

I mean...same as cruise card for the most part.  Maybe now they also know how many times I walk past a store or how long I spend in stores without buying anything, if that's even useful data that they can somehow leverage to get additional sales, which is kind of a stretch. This doesn't seem to be a material difference; they've followed spending habits with cruise cards for decades.

[drwbrt]

47 minutes ago, PMGS247 said:

 

I mean...same as cruise card for the most part.

It also tells them everything they needed to know about Alfredo's/Gigi's before they made any announcements.  It also helps track Slice/Grill/Swirls/International Cafe/Buffet where a cruise card typically wouldn't be used.

[memoak]

11 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

It was mentioned in the now locked thread during the travel agent seminar that a poster provided a link to over a week ago.  The higher commissions given to the TA's for selling the plus and premier would obviously be their incentive to push them.

It makes sense   With a package the total price is higher so the commission would be more. Often called an upsell

[kywildcatfanone]

2 hours ago, PMGS247 said:

I mean...same as cruise card for the most part. 

I didn't cruise with other cruise lines, but as far as I know the cruise card didn't track your every movement, only when you made a purchase, or opening your door, or it was recorded for going on and off the ship.

The medallion knows how long you have been by the pool, in the theater, in your room, etc.  They have basically 24/7 access to your movements for marketing purposes while on their ships.  

[SargassoPirate]

9 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

I didn't cruise with other cruise lines, but as far as I know the cruise card didn't track your every movement, only when you made a purchase, or opening your door, or it was recorded for going on and off the ship.

The medallion knows how long you have been by the pool, in the theater, in your room, etc.  They have basically 24/7 access to your movements for marketing purposes while on their ships.  

I wonder if they can also track how many folks leave the theater because the show sucks?

[MissP22]

5 hours ago, villauk said:

 

Wonder if they didn’t allow price drops after booking, would they generate far more income?

That might be coming soon. 

[MissP22]

24 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

I wonder if they can also track how many folks leave the theater because the show sucks?

I wonder if they can tell if my husband is asleep during their shows?

[villauk]

1 minute ago, MissP22 said:

That might be coming soon. 

Well, it’s already over here so as you say, ‘watch this space’.

[MissP22]

2 minutes ago, villauk said:

Well, it’s already over here so as you say, ‘watch this space’.

Another thing that P&O does differently.