Crew to Passenger Ratio / Cutbacks Impacting Service?

[tfred]

9 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Actually, from other posts here, it seem that the major service reduction (and fare increases) have been in SS and CS Retreat categories. They are now priced above cruises on Seaborne, Silversea, and Regent — all without the service and inclusions. Although we have cruised in RS before (in 2019) we really can’t afford that at current prices. But we have cruised there, and in CS a year before that. We had full butler service, and included use of the mini fridge. Our butler took care of anything we wanted, and contact was easy. And fares were then well below that for those “lux lines”. But now, the Retreat fares are much above those “lux lines”. We’ve been on one of those recently, and found no evidence of staff shortages. None at all. Some of us need convincing that we can book X in a SS or a CS at a lower cost than a “lux line” and still have the same service and inclusions we had before the pandemic. Not seeing it now.

Its difficult to justify any upper suite on X with today's prices.  Sky is one thing although they are much higher than they used to be. Suite pax only have Luminae (which we like) and a bigger room depending on suite selection. The butler concept is of little use to us in general. 

 

[zitsky]

8 minutes ago, tfred said:

Its difficult to justify any upper suite on X with today's prices.  Sky is one thing although they are much higher than they used to be. Suite pax only have Luminae (which we like) and a bigger room depending on suite selection. The butler concept is of little use to us in general. 

 

Didn’t you forget about the Retreat?

[tfred]

23 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Didn’t you forget about the Retreat?

no, but every kind of suite gets the same - Luminae, The Retreat.  Upper level get a bigger room and in some cases unlimited specialty dining 

 

Bigger room for us (2 people) isn't worthwhile and the increase in cruise fare is so outrageous couldput you in a suite on a smaller ship experience like Seabourn or Crystal   Spending $40k for 2 on X is just not a value proposition for us 

[tfred]

6 hours ago, jelayne said:

We are just the opposite of you as we spend almost no time in the Retreat Lounge in the evening.  We much prefer the other bars and lounges.

We have been on board now for 18 nights and bar service is very slow.  Eden at 7-8pm has had 1 server.   Most guests are having to go to the bar to get a drink.   Servers in the Grand Plaza/Martini bar are few, waited almost about 10 minutes before we could flag down a server and another 10+ before our drink arrived.  

we were on Apex last year and concur about the bar service in Martini bar and Eden.  We needed to go to the bar in both locations more often than n to. 

[Dolebludger]

Even before the reported shortage of servers on Celebrity, we preferred the Retreat Lounge (then known as Michaels), because we found the other bars and lounges crowded, with what we considered slow service. The Retreat Lounge was uncrowded and relaxed with good service. And that’s what we wanted. But that was then, and I worry that there may now be crowding and service problems there also. Does anybody have current experience?

Edited November 22, 2023 by Dolebludger

[Cap_D]

22 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Even before the reported shortage of servers on Celebrity, we preferred the Retreat Lounge (then known as Michaels), because we found the other bars and lounges crowded, with what we considered slow service. The Retreat Lounge was uncrowded and relaxed with good service. And that’s what we wanted. But that was then, and I worry that there may now be crowding and service problems there also. Does anybody have current experience?

That definitely a valid concern.  In March on Apex the wait for drinks in the Retreat lounge was hit or miss, and that's with the bar in place of the next cruise desks that are on Edge (and not removed on the dry dock), and before the butler firings.  The space generally has a few bottlenecks, and there are a few places to sit that would allow someone to not see lines forming or people navigating around each other. Generally Retreat rooms have been sold out or near full on most sailings, so demand is probably even most sailings. 

 

There's also some comments on this topic among the recent posts in the thread on @Norwaylady's world cruise, but you may have seen those already (hard to keep track today or all the conversations taking place.  Also, in the new Ascent live report it was mentioned by @lhsail that martini bartender and entertainer Rendy was headed to Edge presumably to help train or add to their staffing.  I would think the elimination of butler service probably adds to in person demand in the lounge for any number of requests and questions. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Cap_D

[Dolebludger]

Thanks, Cap_D. I reviewed some of those posts, and am not encouraged by what I read. Back as recent as 2019, the Retreat Lounge (then Michaels) was a nice relaxed lounge. We could always find seating, and ordering and delivery of drinks were quick. It was a credible alternative to lounges on smaller  lux ships, as was the entire Retreat experience, but at a lower fare. Now, i don’t think so.

[zitsky]

46 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

That definitely a valid concern.  In March on Apex the wait for drinks in the Retreat lounge was hit or miss, and that's with the bar in place of the next cruise desks that are on Edge (and not removed on the dry dock), and before the butler firings.  The space generally has a few bottlenecks, and there are a few places to sit that would allow someone to not see lines forming or people navigating around each other. Generally Retreat rooms have been sold out or near full on most sailings, so demand is probably even most sailings. 

 

There's also some comments on this topic among the recent posts in the thread on @Norwaylady's world cruise, but you may have seen those already (hard to keep track today or all the conversations taking place.  Also, in the new Ascent live report it was mentioned by @lhsail that martini bartender and entertainer Rendy was headed to Edge presumably to help train or add to their staffing.  I would think the elimination of butler service probably adds to in person demand in the lounge for any number of requests and questions. 

“Elimination” of butler service?  This is the first I’ve heard of it.  It was supposed to be a team.

[phoenix_dream]

3 minutes ago, zitsky said:

“Elimination” of butler service?  This is the first I’ve heard of it.  It was supposed to be a team.

I guess it depends on how you define team. Primarily team means the room steward now does 90% of what the butler used to do, in addition to his/her other duties. That’s been my experience. Makes one wonder how this may affect staff retention/hiring going forward. They were already very, very busy with tons of cabins and no assistants any longer. 

[Dolebludger]

Just from the posts by those who have taken recent Celebrity cruises, it is apparent that the “butler team” concept is not producing the level of service as before, with assigned butlers. As it has been presented, the room stewards are staffed at a level allowing them to be only room cleaners. In the past, the assigned butler took care of everything else. The “team” is apparently not sufficiently staffed to take up the slack. So much of the “luxury experience” is gone. Now, we have been on cruises with no butler on other lines. But the stewards had fewer rooms and were assigned with the other duties that the Celebrity butlers used to have. They did well, so no problem. Now, it seems that there is a “service gap” between what the stewards and the “team” are able to do. Resulting in a less-than-lux experience, at a lux price. 

[wineoclock]

I concur re butler. Were on beyond in SS in October. Night and day to our cruise last October in a CS on Apex. None of the things that made sailing in a suite special. And at those prices can’t justify it.
 

Moved our upcoming X cruise from a CS to an SV and with the money have booked a cruise on Regent in concierge for less than a SS. No butler but I didn’t get that this October either. 

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, wineoclock said:

I concur re butler. Were on beyond in SS in October. Night and day to our cruise last October in a CS on Apex. None of the things that made sailing in a suite special. And at those prices can’t justify it.
 

Moved our upcoming X cruise from a CS to an SV and with the money have booked a cruise on Regent in concierge for less than a SS. No butler but I didn’t get that this October either. 

Did you lose your deposit?  Was it refundable?  I’ve thought of switching but I have a $1400 NRD.  Still, might be better switching than paying another $13K for no butler.

[zgscl]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

“Elimination” of butler service?  This is the first I’ve heard of it.  It was supposed to be a team.

According to celebrity it is now a “retreat team” and they provide the same service. 
 

In practice you have lost the butler and can request anything you need from your room steward or the concierge in Michael’s. And if you want beverages for the mini fridge you should get them in Michael’s/Retreat lounge and bring them yourself. 
 

Currently on Eclipse and have heard from multiple people who are in sky suites and has no idea about the change and they were definitely not thrilled with it. 

[wineoclock]

Luckily we had booked on board before the increase in deposit. We lost £250 or thereabouts. It was worth it for the £13,000 difference! I may have had more pause for thought if I’d paid 10% deposit! 

[wineoclock]

1 minute ago, zgscl said:

According to celebrity it is now a “retreat team” and they provide the same service. 
 

In practice you have lost the butler and can request anything you need from your room steward or the concierge in Michael’s. And if you want beverages for the mini fridge you should get them in Michael’s/Retreat lounge and bring them yourself. 
 

Currently on Eclipse and have heard from multiple people who are in sky suites and has no idea about the change and they were definitely not thrilled with it. 

Our retreat host made it clear that we could order through room service or go to the lounge for drinks etc. he was too rushed off his feet to help make our stay special. He was a room attendant and most certainly not a replacement for the butler! The ‘team’ imo were non existent. Still suites on our upcoming Apex cruise are almost sold out so people are still paying the prices! 
 

We decided that unless a move up or a guarantee we will no longer sail in a suite on X as the value (for us) is no longer there. 

[zgscl]

36 minutes ago, wineoclock said:

I concur re butler. Were on beyond in SS in October. Night and day to our cruise last October in a CS on Apex. None of the things that made sailing in a suite special. And at those prices can’t justify it.
 

Moved our upcoming X cruise from a CS to an SV and with the money have booked a cruise on Regent in concierge for less than a SS. No butler but I didn’t get that this October either. 

I keep thinking X is going to price themselves out but they seem to have no trouble filling the retreat. I wonder long term though, I think many will find what you did.
 

Currently looking at Australia/New Zealand for 2025. I can get an owners suite on Princess for 1/2 of the cost of a magic carpet sky suite on X. A little more than 1/3 the cost of a Celebrity suite).
 That includes princess premier (WiFi, drinks, gratuities, photo package, 2x &specialty dining). For double the price Celebrity includes drinks and WiFi. Wouldn’t have a butler either way so the only reason to pay double for X would be the retreat lounge/restaurant/sun deck. While I would certainly pay more for that, 100% more is a really big ask. Granted the Edge is much newer than the Crown Princess. 

[wineoclock]

Dh isn’t keen on retreat lounge so if I’m with him we don’t use it. I do though. The sundeck?  well that is worth it imo but at that price? E class is a difficult one for us as we don’t like the IV. So I suppose if we couldn’t get an SV we may have considered staying put. Luckily didn’t have to make that decision! 

[zgscl]

32 minutes ago, wineoclock said:

Our retreat host made it clear that we could order through room service or go to the lounge for drinks etc. he was too rushed off his feet to help make our stay special. He was a room attendant and most certainly not a replacement for the butler! The ‘team’ imo were non existent. Still suites on our upcoming Apex cruise are almost sold out so people are still paying the prices! 
 

We decided that unless a move up or a guarantee we will no longer sail in a suite on X as the value (for us) is no longer there. 

I really feel bad for the room attendants having to try to make this whole thing work. They already work so hard and it is a very physically demanding job. Then to have to try to fill the role of the butler, even if their cabin load was slightly reduced. 

And depending on the ship and what section they have, they may have multiple classes of cabins and they have to remember what to do for what cabin. If they had actually pooled the sky suite butlers it might have worked out. But eliminating them and saying your room attendant will do it now is absolutely a downgrade. 
 

 

[jelayne]

5 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Even before the reported shortage of servers on Celebrity, we preferred the Retreat Lounge (then known as Michaels), because we found the other bars and lounges crowded, with what we considered slow service. The Retreat Lounge was uncrowded and relaxed with good service. And that’s what we wanted. But that was then, and I worry that there may now be crowding and service problems there also. Does anybody have current experience?

On the Edge now, Retreat drink service is decent just depends on if there is an event or food out.  At those times it can be slow.

[Arizona Wildcat]

33 minutes ago, wineoclock said:

Dh isn’t keen on retreat lounge so if I’m with him we don’t use it. I do though. The sundeck?  well that is worth it imo but at that price? E class is a difficult one for us as we don’t like the IV. So I suppose if we couldn’t get an SV we may have considered staying put. Luckily didn’t have to make that decision! 

Interesting.   Lots of complaints about the suite prices, but people continue to pay the $$ and suites are usually the first to sell out.

Supply and demand is winning.  If people stopped booking suites at what I think are crazy high prices then the prices would drop.

Also cruising has changed since 2019.  Not likely to return.

[Dolebludger]

It is possible that many, who have had good experience with the Suites in the Retreat in the past, just don’t know about the changes. People get “in a rut” about continuing with a line they have liked, and assume no things negative will change about it. Problem is cruise services, inclusions, and rules do change, rarely for the better. Sometimes it takes a cruise experience to learn that things are wrong.When guests get a taste of the new Retreat situation. They mostly will not return, then Retreat bookings will decline, then Celebrity will make changes. But some of us aren’t in a rut. I liked the Retreat when service was comparable with Regent for a lower fare..now the service isn’t at that level and the fare isn’t lower. So back to Regent I go.

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

It is possible that many, who have had good experience with the Suites in the Retreat in the past, just don’t know about the changes. People get “in a rut” about continuing with a line they have liked, and assume no things negative will change about it. Problem is cruise services, inclusions, and rules do change, rarely for the better. Sometimes it takes a cruise experience to learn that things are wrong.When guests get a taste of the new Retreat situation. They mostly will not return, then Retreat bookings will decline, then Celebrity will make changes. But some of us aren’t in a rut. I liked the Retreat when service was comparable with Regent for a lower fare..now the service isn’t at that level and the fare isn’t lower. So back to Regent I go.

 

It's possible, but we randomly spoke to Retreat guests last week on Equinox during what should have been a helipad sail away. I don't know if they were in higher suites, but the only comment I heard was how much they thought Celebrity had nailed the Retreat experience. If they're representative of the customer base and you're not, Celebrity is right and bookings won't decline. Time will tell.

 

I suspect I'd be bored to tears on Regent.

[markeb]

59 minutes ago, zgscl said:

I really feel bad for the room attendants having to try to make this whole thing work. They already work so hard and it is a very physically demanding job. Then to have to try to fill the role of the butler, even if their cabin load was slightly reduced. 

And depending on the ship and what section they have, they may have multiple classes of cabins and they have to remember what to do for what cabin. If they had actually pooled the sky suite butlers it might have worked out. But eliminating them and saying your room attendant will do it now is absolutely a downgrade. 
 

 

 

I think there's a lot of individual variation on the Sky Suite butler/Retreat Hosts. Ours last week was pretty visible, but mostly as a room attendant. He never really offered anything, and we really didn't ask. Last cruise, our butler really asked what we needed and made suggestions. Not knowing what you don't know is an issue.

 

Down the hall from us, we noticed one of the butlers with trays of what looked like room service most afternoons. I suspect those were the canapes they used to deliver. We might or might not have eaten them, but we probably would have accepted if offered; they weren't offered and (our bad) we didn't ask.

[wineoclock]

58 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

It's possible, but we randomly spoke to Retreat guests last week on Equinox during what should have been a helipad sail away. I don't know if they were in higher suites, but the only comment I heard was how much they thought Celebrity had nailed the Retreat experience. If they're representative of the customer base and you're not, Celebrity is right and bookings won't decline. Time will tell.

 

I suspect I'd be bored to tears on Regent.

Yes that’s our worry about being bored but if we don’t try we won’t know! 

[wineoclock]

54 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I think there's a lot of individual variation on the Sky Suite butler/Retreat Hosts. Ours last week was pretty visible, but mostly as a room attendant. He never really offered anything, and we really didn't ask. Last cruise, our butler really asked what we needed and made suggestions. Not knowing what you don't know is an issue.

 

Down the hall from us, we noticed one of the butlers with trays of what looked like room service most afternoons. I suspect those were the canapes they used to deliver. We might or might not have eaten them, but we probably would have accepted if offered; they weren't offered and (our bad) we didn't ask.

I suspect that will have been an upper suite if it was a butler with canapés. Our retreat host said anything like that was strictly room service. Since afternoon tea served in the lounge I didn’t feel the need to have canapés also.