Withdrawing Daily Auto Gratuity fees onboard

[Mary229]

13 minutes ago, GlennG said:

t.  Given you dissatisfaction, you should emphasize that you will not patronize Holland America Line again

I was one of the people who did not question his review but did challenge his decision and gave similar advice to yours.  However if the first thing you say is you will never use the business again then a a business owner myself I take you at your word and have no reason to offer you compensation or any redress.  Threats do not help.  Being cheap does not help and it is a quick review by the cruise line to see this person removed gratuities and therefore may be considered undesirable.  If you want proper compensation or redress you must present yourself as a desirable customer. 

[CruiserBruce]

Facts are sort of important here...the OP is unhappy with with bar staff service,  so they want to take away the hotel service charge. However,  the bar staff gets tips from beverage sales, not from the hotel service charge, which is aimed primarily at the dining room and cabin staff. So, wrong target.

 

As mentioned,  taking away the hotel service charge doesn't get your tips directly to the people desired. They don't get to keep your tips if you don't pay the hotel service charges. 

 

Lastly,  the accusations about food poisoning. Any proof here?

[HappyInVan]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

If you withdraw the automatic gratuities (which it sounds like you will), then it doesn’t matter how generous you are to the staff whom you appreciate.  they will not be able to keep them.  they will be turned over to the pool so that the people whom you don’t see that contribute to the cruise and the others share.

 

 

Cash works best! No? 

 

I would encourage others to do the same. It was better when the company paid decent wages and for decent hours. 😒

Edited February 9 by HappyInVan

[Mary229]

19 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Cash works best! No? 

 

I would encourage others to do the same. It was better when the company paid decent wages and for decent hours. 😒

Tips have always been part of the crew compensation.  It is a win win because of tax law but because so many choose to remove them the crew and if the company will now need to give up that tax advantage for tips to be included in the fare .  I am supposing that will be at least a 25% deduction in pay.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but the crew tips are distributed without a service charge so no cash is not best.  Again the crew will need to turn that money in and it will go into the general crew tip fund.  
 

it is none of my business but my curiosity gets the better of me - do you make sure that the tips you hand out are equivalent to what you would pay through auto gratuities?

[NCTribeFan]

How does one contact the Office of the President to report problems/issues experienced on a recent cruise?

 

I have several problems on my recent Eurodam sailing, including poor service in bars and ridiculously slow service in both Pinnacle Grill and Tamarind.  I managed to be moved to a different cabin (a lower category than I'd booked but I was "upgraded" to a cabin I hated and that was the only option).  I talked to the Hotel Manager as well as Guest Services multiple times.  I also did the post-cruise survey.

 

I never even once considered removing the gratuities.

 

No compensation was offered, not even a bottle of wine (which I didn't need since I had HIA, but the effort would've been appreciated).  So, I'd like to write to Corporate about my experience.

[kazu]

32 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Cash works best! No? 

 

I would encourage others to do the same. It was better when the company paid decent wages and for decent hours. 😒

 

 

Cash works IF you keep the auto gratuity in place.  The person you are tipping gets to keep it.

 

Otherwise, they don’t get to keep whatever cash you give them as I already explained.

 

The crew are advised all passengers who remove the auto gratuity so they know full well if you do it.

 

I would encourage others NOT to do what you plan to do.   

[Laminator]

I am in no way shape or form sticking up for the poster but at least he claimed to have a bad experience. I have pax on embarkation day at guest services removing tips and they haven't been on the ship an hour. And I highly doubt it was because they were leaving cash tips. 

[Mary229]

21 minutes ago, NCTribeFan said:

How does one contact the Office of the President to report problems/issues experienced on a recent cruise?

 

I have several problems on my recent Eurodam sailing, including poor service in bars and ridiculously slow service in both Pinnacle Grill and Tamarind.  I managed to be moved to a different cabin (a lower category than I'd booked but I was "upgraded" to a cabin I hated and that was the only option).  I talked to the Hotel Manager as well as Guest Services multiple times.  I also did the post-cruise survey.

 

I never even once considered removing the gratuities.

 

No compensation was offered, not even a bottle of wine (which I didn't need since I had HIA, but the effort would've been appreciated).  So, I'd like to write to Corporate about my experience.

The first step is always the post cruise survey.  I keep a pad on my desk and make notes throughout the cruise.  At the end of the cruise I choose one or two concerns that merit the most attention.  I make sure to continuously bring those up in the survey - please no rants (which I wouldn't expect from you) just facts and perhaps even a suggestion on how to improve.  Then if you want to go further here are the contacts

 

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/holland-america/

[HappyInVan]

21 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 

Cash works IF you keep the auto gratuity in place.  The person you are tipping gets to keep it.

 

Otherwise, they don’t get to keep whatever cash you give them as I already explained.

 

The crew are advised all passengers who remove the auto gratuity so they know full well if you do it.

 

 

 

I leave the cash discretely in an envelop. That's how its done in European hotels. It's up to the employee to declare the amount. 

 

Shame on HAL if they force staff to work 10 hours a day. Every day of the week. And, take their appreciation tips away. Where is the incentive to perform above the minimum?? 🙄

Edited February 9 by HappyInVan

[rodndonna]

22 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

I leave the cash discretely in an envelop. That's how its done in European hotels. It's up to the employee to declare the amount. 

 

Shame on HAL if they force staff to work 10 hours a day. Every day of the week. And, take their appreciation tips away. Where is the incentive to perform above the minimum?? 🙄

 

So are you saying you leave the total of the cruise equivalent of the daily gratuities in your room in a cash envelop for your room steward? And then because you want to use a European approach while on HAL, I guess  then feel OK that you are not tipping for dining or bars (because that is not common in Europe)? 

 

[HappyInVan]

20 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

So are you saying you leave the total of the cruise equivalent of the daily gratuities in your room in a cash envelop for your room steward? And then because you want to use a European approach while on HAL, I guess  then feel OK that you are not tipping for dining or bars (because that is not common in Europe)? 

 

 

Actually, in Europe, the restaurant staff expect you to leave 20% etc. There are consequences if you under-tip and return to restaurant. Over there, the restaurant staff are able to live on their total compensation, with whatever pooling system they use. On land, always follow the local custom. Though I tend to over-tip.

 

For the first time, I'll be with-holding the automatic tip on HAL. And distributing the amount to the staff that pleases me. It can be the dining room, or the room service. Or, none if its that kind of experience.

 

We face the dilemma because HAL is asking pax to pay the staff via this pseudo 'tip'. It would be better for the company to charge a higher fare, and pay a higher wage. That way, the pax has the incentive to reward exceptional workers.

 

 

[chill6x6]

I can't imagine my room attendant for instance, not keeping the cash I give them during a "$100 handshake."  I'm going to ask.

[cruisemom42]

59 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Shame on HAL if they force staff to work 10 hours a day. Every day of the week. And, take their appreciation tips away. Where is the incentive to perform above the minimum?? 🙄

 

As I understand it, the remuneration policy is agreed upon following a negotiation between the cruise line and the various unions onboard. I can't speak to the number of hours worked but I have read that it is a two-way street. The crew included in the negotiation have the certainty that if tips fall below the agreed-upon minimum, the ship will make up the difference. I gather this can happen at times when ships sail from certain areas where tipping is not the cultural norm.

 

On the other hand, they also agree to share equally any cash tips left by those who do not use the electronic tipping system in place. This ensures an equitable distribution. (Often not what the 'non-tipper' had intended.)

 

And let me repeat -- this IS agreed to, and the groups involved DO turn in cash tips given when the passenger opts out of the standard daily gratuity.

 

 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

Shame on HAL if they force staff to work 10 hours a day. Every day of the week. And, take their appreciation tips away.

 

No - shame on YOU for not leaving the auto tips in place and making the crews’ life more complicated.

 

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Where is the incentive to perform above the minimum?? 🙄

 

The additional tips they receive on TOP of their automatic gratuity as well as recognition on the LUK.

 

If HAL were to include this in the cruise price, the price would skyrocket.  tips are treated differently for the crew tax wise than salary.

 

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Actually, in Europe, the restaurant staff expect you to leave 20% etc. There are consequences if you under-tip and return to restaurant.

 

This is definitely NOT true in Italy. Or Spain. Perhaps in some places, but "Europe" is not monolithic.

 

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, chill6x6 said:

I can't imagine my room attendant for instance, not keeping the cash I give them during a "$100 handshake."  I'm going to ask.

 

They do IF you keep the automatic gratuity in place.  

 

[kazu]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This is definitely NOT true in Italy. Or Spain. Perhaps in some places, but "Europe" is not monolithic.

 

 

Absolutely correct!  

[HappyInVan]

Just now, kazu said:

 

They do IF you keep the automatic gratuity in place.  

 

 

 

Why should I keep the automatic gratuity in place if I don't feel gratitude?

 

How many here will add an additional tip to deserving staff on top of the automatic service charge? Why make the gratuity withdrawable if we don't exercise the option? 

 

What's wrong if quality rises as fares rises? In the end, service is a personal experience. Between the server and patron.

[regnig]

11 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

.........................................................

How many here will add an additional tip to deserving staff on top of the automatic service charge? ................................ 

 

 

@HappyInVan if you are going to keep score, count me as one!  I have in the past and will continue in the future to leave the auto tips in place and then tip extra to the deserving.

Edited February 9 by regnig
grammer

[luvteaching]

@HappyInVan. Count me as another who always leaves the auto gratuities in place and then I tip my room stewards and dining stewards over and above especially when my DH was alive and sailing with me. His mobility issues made some extra work for them and it was always accomplished with a smile. 

[rodndonna]

14 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Actually, in Europe, the restaurant staff expect you to leave 20% etc. There are consequences if you under-tip and return to restaurant. Over there, the restaurant staff are able to live on their total compensation, with whatever pooling system they use. On land, always follow the local custom. Though I tend to over-tip.

 

 

 

Before passing away in 2019, my sister lived in London for over 30 years, and having visiting her annually and taken numerous hops from there to other European cities, I gotta say my experience differs.

 

If you are so adamantly against the policy of HAL and other American line policies with regards to gratuities, why not  just sail on a cruise line that includes gratuities? Why sail HAL when you are adamant they are mistreating the crew? If I thought a cruise line was mistreating the crew, I certainly wouldn't give them my business.

[rodndonna]

13 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

How many here will add an additional tip to deserving staff on top of the automatic service charge? Why make the gratuity withdrawable if we don't exercise the option? 

 

 

 

Uuummm....like .....pretty much the majority of us......

 

 

[cruisemom42]

14 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Why should I keep the automatic gratuity in place if I don't feel gratitude?

 

How many here will add an additional tip to deserving staff on top of the automatic service charge? Why make the gratuity withdrawable if we don't exercise the option? 

 

What's wrong if quality rises as fares rises? In the end, service is a personal experience. Between the server and patron.

 

If this is how you truly feel, perhaps it would be better to find an institution that fits your policy rather than trying to make your policy a fit for the institution.

 

Yes, I agree there is a better way of handling gratuities, but this to me falls into the category of "when in Rome" -- it may not be how I would do things but it is the generally expected behavior and I adhere to it.

 

If I experienced such a catastrophic failure of service while onboard, I would try to address it while onboard. If that was not sufficient, only then would I consider removing the auto gratuities. To this point, such has never happened.

 

[bobomonkeyrage]

21 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

How many here will add an additional tip to deserving staff on top of the automatic service charge? Why make the gratuity withdrawable if we don't exercise the option? 

I've only cruised twice, but have done exactly that both times...
Why make it withdrawable? Because if they don't it's considered a wage not a tip which as stated many times has tax implications for both the line and the staff. 
In 2024, to consider automatic gratuities as optional shows a truly disturbing level of entitlement. As with 100s of other industries with add on costs, it's a bad system, but one that the vast majority of people simply factor into the overall cost of whatever they're purchasing. To spend $1,000s on a 9 night vacation and then have the audacity to claw back a few $100 from the folks working hardest is a worldview that I hope to never encounter when I cruise again. 
Do bad cruises and bad experiences happen? Obviously. But punishing the hardest working folks is truly galling. 

Edited February 9 by bobomonkeyrage

[HappyInVan]

34 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This is definitely NOT true in Italy. Or Spain. Perhaps in some places, but "Europe" is not monolithic.

 

 

Quite so. According to the Lonely Planet guide to Rome, Romans aren't big tippers. The Service charge (servizo) is often included. Leave just a euro or two at pizzeria and 5-10% in smart restaurants.

 

In the end, the quality of service you receive will depend on the service level of the establishment and the motivation of the staff. In the industry, HAL is respected for its service level. Is a McDonalds level of service acceptable to you?

 

As you pointed out, its HAL's responsibility to ensure that the crew have a minimum wage. They have to top up. My responsibility as a pax is to provide feedback to the staff. Good, or no go.

 

I have provided critical ratings on a room steward. On the next cruise, he was almost tearful as I embarked. There are consequences if we merely use the post-cruise survey to provide feedback.

Edited February 9 by HappyInVan