Withdrawing Daily Auto Gratuity fees onboard

[RICHARD@SEA]

I recently went on a 9 day ROTTERDAM cruise  which was a total disaster....bad service, bad food including food poisoning & a cabin that should never been sold due to structural problems / noise.

 

I'm a 3 star Mariner w HAL (since 1976) & I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

 

On another recent post on this board someone posted about nickel & diming on drink packages.  

 

I have  always tipped extra to my cabin stewards and  dining room waiters or deck stewards & anyone else that went out of their way to help. So today the lines imposed DAILY fees along w an 18% gratuity to drinks.  On my recent Rotterdam cruise the service was horrible - the worst was in the bars.  I never ate in the main dining room as I don't care for the cattle car atmosphere & service currently levels.  The specialty steak house I ate in was really bad  - it was half full& at times tehte was NO waitstaff or manager around - and to top it off I got food poisoning after eating there.

The bartenders & few waitstaff in the bars were too busy having fun among themselves & left customers waiting to order drinks.  One nite I had one pre dinner  drink & was handed a bill for $52...when I said it wasn't my bill the waiter said "its your card".  I also checked my final bill & there were seveeral overcharges  - I nw ask for receipts & check my final bill.

 

 

I don't want to hear about staff cutbacks due to covid etc.... like I told the Hotel Manager... " I'd like to see the bonuses of the HAL & CARNIVORE CORP Executives".

 

So I decided as cruising has changed so must I.... if I am on a ship w auto gratuity I will visit the GUEST RELATIONS DESK & have it removed for the voyage.  Then I will go ahead & tip those staff that have assisted me while onboard.   If service is good or better I add $$$$.  If its not I deduct - as I would do when ashore.

I won't  be forced to help a corporation pay salaries in the guise that I am paying a gratuity.

 

This is along the lines when a cruise line , hotel or restaurant says I am their "GUEST"  well I don't charge my guests  & I paid in good faith for the products these corps sell....  Its lie the inmates are running the asylum!!!!

[Fouremco]

32 minutes ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

I'm sure they'll be devastated to read that! 🙄

[Moriah]

Usually I just sail on by this kind of complaining thread, but when it comes to withdrawing crew appreciation, I can't be quiet.  Are you kidding me right now?   The ONLY thing that I had even the tiniest "oh sorry that happened" reaction to was you getting food poisoning, and if it really did happen at the Pinnacle Grill as you claim, I can assure you it is NOT anything usual, and what the heck that has to do with crew appreciation, I can't fathom.  You are laboring under a huge misunderstanding.  When you do not pay your gratuities, you are stiffing the people who are vacuuming the public areas, the 24-hour laundry workers, the guest relations staff that no doubt fixed that mistake on your bar bill, and well, I just realized I started listing a never-ending group of crew-members who are some of the absolute best and friendliest, and hard working you'll find in the world.  You are NOT making the world safe from bar-tenders who are enjoying themselves or mistakes being made (by humans) on bills.  I can honestly say that I am pleased as punch that you have decided not to cruise with HAL again.  I guess we won't be meeting up on any of my upcoming cruises and that's just fine with me.  Also, I just have to say... maybe you could look up the Law of Attraction. 🙂  Basically, it's karma.  You get what you give. 

Edited February 8 by Moriah

[Sea42]

1 hour ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I'm a 3 star Mariner w HAL (since 1976) & I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

I'm sure the HAL staff will be sorry to hear that.

Edited February 8 by Sea42

[cbr663]

If I may offer a suggestion.  I too have previously experienced a bad cruise.  The number of things that went wrong every day were simply astounding.  And while we received the typical free bottle of wine and even a free tour of the bridge as symbols of goodwill, it did very little to prevent further things from going wrong.  We were sailing in a Neptune Suite at the time and the Concierge came to us and asked what he could do to make it better for us and our only response was to stop with the poor service.  I can tell you that as a result of that experience it was a long time before we sailed in a Neptune Suite again and we have never sailed on that ship again, and won't.

 

What I did do though was after the cruise I sent a detailed letter to HAL outlining my concerns with the poor service.  I stuck to the facts and presented everything as we experienced it.  I received a written response back apologizing for the poor service and an acknowledgment that it didn't meet their standards.

 

Like you, at the time I felt why would I ever leave a gratuity for such poor service.  I kept them in place though and paid them.  As a sign of goodwill, HAL offered me $300 OBC for any future sailing.  Satisfied with the response we sailed again and were glad that we did as it was obviously a one off experience on that ship.  The $300 OBC exceeded the crew appreciation amount.

 

I suggest that you write the Office of the President and share with them your experiences and your disappointment with the cruise.  I don't know if you would get the same response from HAL as we did as your situation is obviously different.  If I may, I wouldn't mention that you contracted food poisoning after dining in the PG as unless you had it verified by the medical centre onboard, that is your opinion and not a fact.  Simply share that you became ill after dining there.  Stick to the facts, state where service was poor and don't make it about tipping the crew and see how HAL responds.

 

 

[Mary229]

I agree with @cbr663    I only complain when I feel something was more than just my personal opinion but was a true failing of the promised services, that is I don’t expect the Seabourn experience for my HAL cruise rate.  
 

There have been two sailings where there were such issues.  Both times I complained well directly to corporate and both times I was offered generous compensation.  

 

As a matter of fact the compensation I received in the  last incident far exceeded my expectations.  
 

The prior incident caused me to break up with HAL for a few years but after trying other travel companies including other cruise lines, supposedly superior, I decided to try HAL again and have been satisfied so far and they honored the compensation they had offered .

[Seasick Sailor]

4 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I recently went on a 9 day ROTTERDAM cruise  which was a total disaster....bad service, bad food including food poisoning & a cabin that should never been sold due to structural problems / noise.

 

I'm a 3 star Mariner w HAL (since 1976) & I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

 

On another recent post on this board someone posted about nickel & diming on drink packages.  

 

I have  always tipped extra to my cabin stewards and  dining room waiters or deck stewards & anyone else that went out of their way to help. So today the lines imposed DAILY fees along w an 18% gratuity to drinks.  On my recent Rotterdam cruise the service was horrible - the worst was in the bars.  I never ate in the main dining room as I don't care for the cattle car atmosphere & service currently levels.  The specialty steak house I ate in was really bad  - it was half full& at times tehte was NO waitstaff or manager around - and to top it off I got food poisoning after eating there.

The bartenders & few waitstaff in the bars were too busy having fun among themselves & left customers waiting to order drinks.  One nite I had one pre dinner  drink & was handed a bill for $52...when I said it wasn't my bill the waiter said "its your card".  I also checked my final bill & there were seveeral overcharges  - I nw ask for receipts & check my final bill.

 

 

I don't want to hear about staff cutbacks due to covid etc.... like I told the Hotel Manager... " I'd like to see the bonuses of the HAL & CARNIVORE CORP Executives".

 

So I decided as cruising has changed so must I.... if I am on a ship w auto gratuity I will visit the GUEST RELATIONS DESK & have it removed for the voyage.  Then I will go ahead & tip those staff that have assisted me while onboard.   If service is good or better I add $$$$.  If its not I deduct - as I would do when ashore.

I won't  be forced to help a corporation pay salaries in the guise that I am paying a gratuity.

 

This is along the lines when a cruise line , hotel or restaurant says I am their "GUEST"  well I don't charge my guests  & I paid in good faith for the products these corps sell....  Its lie the inmates are running the asylum!!!!

 

I totally disagree with this post. We've sailed Rotterdam for months and months in the last 3 years. Became 5 star on this last cruise. The crew deserve every dime they get, plus the extra tips cruisers give them. That said,  just because you seem to have had 9 days of misery, don't forget about the crew behind the scenes.  If you actually did get "food poisoning " in Pinnacle Grill, there would have been an investigation as to where you got it and what was eaten. They don't mess around with food poisoning. 

 

We sailed Nov-Dec-Jan (51 days) and never experienced poor bar service, and MDR servers were the best. 

 

Sorry you posted this. I just can't believe it, and can't believe people who would take tips away from our valuable crew, don't care that you give tips to people you feel deserve it by what you see.

Edited February 8 by Seasick Sailor

[sciencewonk]

People who refuse to pay gratuities in an effort to penalize a corporation are misguided.  They end up harming the most vulnerable people (the employees) while the corporation isn't harmed at all.  Companies protect themselves by moving risk (ie the non-payment of wages) to the employee while ensuring the company gets full payment.  I think this is unethical, but it is the current system.  If you want to penalize the company, I think your best choice is to not utilize their service any more.

[Charlene1985]

I think you probably expected a bit too much wining and dining.  When one starts to complain about every single aspect of their cruise, I start to wonder who is in the wrong.  

 

Were the 100 or so nights you have spent on a Holland America ship over the past half century more recent in nature?  Or did you sail heavily from 1976-1996?

 

I wasn't alive in 1976.  I was born almost  a decade later and am also a 3 star.  But I've never received poor service on Rotterdam or any other HAL cruise.  But as someone who works in a customer facing industry, I see how staff goes out of their way to please their polite and pleasant customers and are more or less indifferent to the ones who are rude and dismissive or treat them as inferiors.  

[RuthC]

OP sounds so proud of himself for stiffing the crew. Does he not realize that by stopping the auto gratuities (which have been around for 20 years now), and giving cash to the 'deserving' instead, they can't keep it?
I hope he at least distributes the equivalent of his withheld gratuity so when it is turned in, the crew does get their same amount. 

HAL and the crew will be better off without him. 

[mightycruisequeen]

We see it on every cruise~  people at the customer service desk demanding that the daily service fees be removed from their onboard account.  I can believe people have issues on their cruise, but I can't believe that it warrants withholding part of the crew's wages for the incredibly long hours of working so hard, and graciously putting up with no shortage of rude, entitled passengers.  This is, of course, just my opinion, but there it is.

 

Edited February 8 by mightycruisequeen

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

We see it on every cruise~  people at the customer service desk demanding that the daily service fees be removed from their onboard account.  I can believe people have issues on their cruise, but I can't believe that it warrents withholding part of their wages for the incredibly long hours of working so hard, and graciously putting up with no shortage of rude, entitled passengers.  This is, of course, just my opinion, but there it is.

 

I think it is becoming more prevalent.  Once the cruise lines gain predictable financial footing they need to include tips in price. 
 

if you can’t afford the tip then you can’t afford the cruise.  If the cruise was so bad as to remove the tips a person should disembark the cruise. 

[CNSJ]

8 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

I guess that helps reduce the chance I will have to share a dinner table with you.  I respect the hard work the ship's crew does with a smile.  You must not.

[bobomonkeyrage]

Is the auto-gratuity system (and tipping culture in general) a good one? Of course not.
Does stiffing the front line workers who are taken advantage of by that system (and doing so self-righteously) make a person someone I hope to never encounter on a cruise? Yes, absolutely. 
I believe every single thing the OP mentioned as a complaint. But to have that many complaints in 9 days in any situation means a person has to be looking for reasons to complain rather than enjoy themself. 

Look for the good in others and in situations and you'll find your own quality of life improves. 

The people who are hurt by removing gratuities are the very same ones who have the ability to make or break your cruise experience. And if you don't think they can spot someone they'll never be able to please then you're delusional.

[Torquer]

8 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

So I decided as cruising has changed so must I.... if I am on a ship w auto gratuity I will visit the GUEST RELATIONS DESK & have it removed for the voyage.  Then I will go ahead & tip those staff that have assisted me while onboard.   If service is good or better I add $$$$.  If its not I deduct - as I would do when ashore.

You do realize that if you turn off the daily service charge, then on HAL ships (don't know about other lines), the people you give your individual tips to are not permitted to keep them.  Instead, they go into the same pool fund for the entire crew.  So where the money is going is no different either way.  You could obviously decide to give less overall than the daily service charge if you choose, and that is your prerogative (although I disagree with it).  Just don't think that your money is going to just those crew members that you believe are giving you great service.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

I totally disagree with this post. We've sailed Rotterdam for months and months in the last 3 years. Became 5 star on this last cruise. The crew deserve every dime they get, plus the extra tips cruisers give them. That said,  just because you seem to have had 9 days of misery, don't forget about the crew behind the scenes.  If you actually did get "food poisoning " in Pinnacle Grill, there would have been an investigation as to where you got it and what was eaten. They don't mess around with food poisoning. 

 

We sailed Nov-Dec-Jan (51 days) and never experienced poor bar service, and MDR servers were the best. 

 

Sorry you posted this. I just can't believe it, and can't believe people who would take tips away from our valuable crew, don't care that you give tips to people you feel deserve it by what you see.

 

Noting that you have sailed on the same ship for months and months over the past 3-yrs is irrelevant, unless you were on the same cruise as the OP. A ship is nothing more than a floating mass of steel that has minimal effect on service quality.

 

The issues outlined by the OP are crew, or more than likely ship management issues. The Master and Dept Heads management styles and standards can significantly impact customer service, as we have experienced on a number of cruises. We have seen the Master, Executive Chef and/or Purser (Hotel GM) change mid-cruise and the atmosphere and level of service have changed, sometimes for the better, others not so much.

 

So even if you were on an immediately prior or subsequent cruise, if the Master or a Dept Head changed, a significant change in service quality is possible. Having spent almost 30 yrs in Command of pax vessels, I have experienced this many times.

[Heidi13]

9 minutes ago, Torquer said:

You do realize that if you turn off the daily service charge, then on HAL ships (don't know about other lines), the people you give your individual tips to are not permitted to keep them.  Instead, they go into the same pool fund for the entire crew.  So where the money is going is no different either way.  You could obviously decide to give less overall than the daily service charge if you choose, and that is your prerogative (although I disagree with it).  Just don't think that your money is going to just those crew members that you believe are giving you great service.

 

That is the process on most lines that I know that use the Discretionary Service Charge. However, when the DSC is removed, if employee remuneration falls below the minimum, as per MLC, the cruise line must make up the difference, ensuring each rating receives the basic minimum wage.

[zonk42]

Yikes! Sorry to hear about your bad cruise. I’ve been fortunate to have good experiences on all of my HAL cruises.

[kirkc]

Food poisoning? How much time did you spend in the infirmary? Was there any discussion of having you medically evacuated for treatment? Assuming you were given complete medical reports to give to your local physician. How many others were affected? I’m surprised it didn’t make the news.

[visagrunt]

Your proposed remedy is a pointless and empty gesture.  As soon as you remove service charges, your name and cabin number is circulated to participants in the tip pool and they are obliged to remit all tips received from you to the pool.  Failure to do so is grounds for termination.  It's all in the crew handbook.  And you can't opt out of the service charge on beverages--which seems to be your biggest service gripe.

I wish you well in finding a cruise line more to your liking, and I'll be happier on board without you to spoil my experience.
 

[HappyInVan]

15 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

So I decided as cruising has changed so must I.... if I am on a ship w auto gratuity I will visit the GUEST RELATIONS DESK & have it removed for the voyage.  Then I will go ahead & tip those staff that have assisted me while onboard.   If service is good or better I add $$$$.  If its not I deduct - as I would do when ashore.

I won't  be forced to help a corporation pay salaries in the guise that I am paying a gratuity.....

 

 

I'm in agreement. I've had enough. Recently, I've been critical in the post-cruise evaluation.

 

Yes, the hotel staff have been squeezed and they are unhappy. But, they must take their issues to management. Don't take it out on the guests.

 

In the end, I must signal my dissatisfaction by withdrawing funds to the crew and the company.

 

Naturally, I will generously tip the staff members that I do appreciate.

[kazu]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

In the end, I must signal my dissatisfaction by withdrawing funds to the crew and the company.

 

Naturally, I will generously tip the staff members that I do appreciate.

 

If you withdraw the automatic gratuities (which it sounds like you will), then it doesn’t matter how generous you are to the staff whom you appreciate.  they will not be able to keep them.  they will be turned over to the pool so that the people whom you don’t see that contribute to the cruise and the others share.

 

[Haljo1935]

7 hours ago, visagrunt said:

Your proposed remedy is a pointless and empty gesture.  As soon as you remove service charges, your name and cabin number is circulated to participants in the tip pool and they are obliged to remit all tips received from you to the pool.  Failure to do so is grounds for termination.  It's all in the crew handbook. 

Finally, after many many "I was told..." and references to the policy, a glimpse of it, thus ending speculation.  Thanks for posting the page re tips. Any other jewels in it you'd like to share?

Can you tell us the date of that handbook?

[Sir PMP]

20 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I recently went on a 9 day ROTTERDAM cruise  which was a total disaster....bad service, bad food including food poisoning & a cabin that should never been sold due to structural problems / noise.

 

I'm a 3 star Mariner w HAL (since 1976) & I  don't think I will ever sail on HAL or any CARNIVORE CORP line ship ever again.

 

On another recent post on this board someone posted about nickel & diming on drink packages.  

 

I have  always tipped extra to my cabin stewards and  dining room waiters or deck stewards & anyone else that went out of their way to help. So today the lines imposed DAILY fees along w an 18% gratuity to drinks.  On my recent Rotterdam cruise the service was horrible - the worst was in the bars.  I never ate in the main dining room as I don't care for the cattle car atmosphere & service currently levels.  The specialty steak house I ate in was really bad  - it was half full& at times tehte was NO waitstaff or manager around - and to top it off I got food poisoning after eating there.

The bartenders & few waitstaff in the bars were too busy having fun among themselves & left customers waiting to order drinks.  One nite I had one pre dinner  drink & was handed a bill for $52...when I said it wasn't my bill the waiter said "its your card".  I also checked my final bill & there were seveeral overcharges  - I nw ask for receipts & check my final bill.

 

 

I don't want to hear about staff cutbacks due to covid etc.... like I told the Hotel Manager... " I'd like to see the bonuses of the HAL & CARNIVORE CORP Executives".

 

So I decided as cruising has changed so must I.... if I am on a ship w auto gratuity I will visit the GUEST RELATIONS DESK & have it removed for the voyage.  Then I will go ahead & tip those staff that have assisted me while onboard.   If service is good or better I add $$$$.  If its not I deduct - as I would do when ashore.

I won't  be forced to help a corporation pay salaries in the guise that I am paying a gratuity.

 

This is along the lines when a cruise line , hotel or restaurant says I am their "GUEST"  well I don't charge my guests  & I paid in good faith for the products these corps sell....  Its lie the inmates are running the asylum!!!!

If you're a 3 star since 1976, then you haven't sailed much on Hal. I would book an all inclusive cruise in the future, like on the Regent or Silversea, that would be a great experience for you, except for your wallet.

[GlennG]

Richard,

First of all, please don't be discouraged by the response of some of the HAL cheerleaders.  Some people will never accept that others find disappointment with HAL and its services.

 

However, I must tell you that I agree with many of the people who have posted here.  Removing tips will likely be perceived as being ineffective.

 

As other have said, you might consider writing a formal letter to the President (or some other person in the hierarchy) and register your disappointment.  Given you dissatisfaction, you should emphasize that you will not patronize Holland America Line again.  There are lots of other sailing alternatives out there.

 

Finally, mean what you say.  Don't sail with HAL again.