Passports or enhanced drivers license?

[jimbo5544]

27 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

 

I grew up in an era where lobbying had very negative connotations but I can see your point. 

One could state that it is worse today, despite so called transparency.  They affect almost everything tie to govt (including the people that make the laws).....go figure.

[aborgman]

7 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

The way a capital society works.  For the record, privately held companies (as example MSC I believe) do the same exact thing.  Did I claim they did not lobby?

 

Private companies do the exact same thing - but for private companies, that is a choice. They do not have to maximize profits (but generally do).

 

For publicly traded companies - they don't even have a choice. They are legally required to maximize profits.

 

...and you didn't claim they didn't lobby, another poster did:

 

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

 If you mean "lobby" by providing input, sure, I can agree with that because everyone has the right to "lobby" proposed federal regulations, but if you mean "lobby" as it taking people out to dinner, buying them gifts, etc. the way that lobbyists do, well we can agree to disagree.

 

[SRF]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:33 PM, jimbo5544 said:

OK, how many border states have it enacted?  How many border states have not implemented it?  Does the fact they have two different methodologies make sense?  Do you think the public is/will get confused?  Is there a better way?

 

I never said it made sense.   And agree with your points.

 

But there ARE two different systems (three if you add the Passport Card).

 

And people will always be confused.

[Ferry_Watcher]

It's not different systems, it is different available options to use.  US citizens (especially US born) have the luxury of choosing from an array of proof of citizenship documents for a closed loop cruise.  It can be as simple as their US gov't issued birth certificate, along with a photo ID, all the way to their US passport - card or book, cruiser's choice. 

Even Naturalized US citizens have the option of traveling on a closed loop cruise with their US passport, or if they had let their passport expire, they can present their original Naturalization Certificate (a copy will not be accepted)

Also included are Permanent Residents of the US and Canada - US Permanent Resident Card  holders aka Green Card, and the same for Canadian Permanent Resident Card holders.

 

And then there all the 'boutique' options -

Enhanced Driver's License (MI, MN, NY, VT & WA)

NEXUS Card (US & Canada and some Trusted Travelers from Mexico)

SENTRI Card (Similar to NEXUS, but used south of the border)

Consulate Report of Birth Aboard - US citizens born overseas 

Tribal Card (Native American and Canadian First Nations recognized members)

 

I think the US gov't, along with the cruise industry really has made cruising on closed loop sailings as easy possible for US citizens (along with approval from the WHTI Compliant countries).  As someone who checks in passengers, I am baffled how in this day and age, that people who are about to get on a cruise ship don't consider what kind of documentation is needed.  I don't know if some people are so insular that they just don't understand, or can't accept that they need to show proof of citizenship like the rest of the world does.  International travel is a privilege, but it comes with responsibility, like knowing the basics of what is required to get on a cruise ship.  Granted, the cruise lines could make the information even more obvious, but honestly, I think people would still click thru those waiver boxes acknowledging that they understand, but in reality I think they just want to quickly finish the booking process.  

 

And if a US born citizen does arrive at the pier without the needed citizenship document, we work with them to help them get a copy of their US birth certificate electronically sent to the terminal.  Again, it is a very accommodating process, with a fairly high success rate.  Pier side staffers are always happy when someone with a document issue is able to board the ship.

 

Moral of this story - Know what travel documents are required, gather what you need early, and made sure you bring them.

 

 

Edited April 3 by Ferry_Watcher

[jimbo5544]

9 hours ago, SRF said:

 

I never said it made sense.   And agree with your points.

 

But there ARE two different systems (three if you add the Passport Card).

 

And people will always be confused.

Agree on all that

[Drazil65]

I am baffled how in this day and age, that people who are about to get on a cruise ship don't consider what kind of documentation is needed.  I don't know if some people are so insular that they just don't understand, or can't accept that they need to show proof of citizenship like the rest of the world does.  International travel is a privilege, but it comes with responsibility, like knowing the basics of what is required to get on a cruise ship

 

This...100%...People walk around with their noses glued to their phones, everywhere...they know everything going on with social media, following what everyone else is doing etc...but cannot (or more likely wont) look up details for things like what they need (in their specific situations) to travel on a cruise. 

 

If someone is lacking in the ability to find out these things on their own (or wont bother reading the FAQs) then use a TA or PVP to assist with your trip and even then the end responsibility lies with the person traveling.  

[aborgman]

8 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

  I don't know if some people are so insular that they just don't understand, or can't accept that they need to show proof of citizenship like the rest of the world does.

 

Only about 15% of Americans travel internationally in a given year.

 

That number is like 85% for Europeans.

 

Americans ARE pretty insular.

[sparks1093]

14 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Only about 15% of Americans travel internationally in a given year.

 

That number is like 85% for Europeans.

 

Americans ARE pretty insular.

Seems like that doesn't include travel to our neighboring countries, which still involve international travel. (After all, many of the 85% of Europeans are just traveling to a bordering country.)

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Seems like that doesn't include travel to our neighboring countries, which still involve international travel. (After all, many of the 85% of Europeans are just traveling to a bordering country.)

 

Actually - I believe that does include neighboring countries (for travel - not things like daily border crossing for work) defined by unique travelers.

 

If you go by total number of travellers - it was about 24% for 2022 (80.7 million of 333.3 million).

 

From Pew in 2021:

Traveled out of Country 0 times: 27%

Traveled out of Country 1 time: 19%

 

So almost half the country has traveled internationally once or less.

[ray98]

Even in a topic with this much information people still don't understand the difference between Real ID and an EDL.  Baffling.

[Illbcruzn4life]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

Even in a topic with this much information people still don't understand the difference between Real ID and an EDL.  Baffling.

there is another forum I read and the amount of misinformation is unbelievable. Try to give correct information and nobody believes you. (shrug)

[Ferry_Watcher]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

Even in a topic with this much information people still don't understand the difference between Real ID and an EDL.  Baffling.

 

I think when people from the 45 states that don't offer an Enhanced DL, they don't realize that it is an actual type of specialized license (Proper Noun), but think that their Real ID Driver's License has 'enhanced features' (adjective), like qualifying you get get on a plane starting in 2025.  I think that this contributes to the confusion.

Edited April 3 by Ferry_Watcher

[ray98]

1 hour ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

I think when people from the 45 states that don't offer an Enhanced DL, they don't realize that it is an actual type of specialized license (Proper Noun), but think that their Real ID Driver's License has 'enhanced features' (adjective), like qualifying you get get on a plane starting in 2025.  I think that this contributes to the confusion.

 I have no idea.  I am far from the smartest guy in the room but a simple Google search cleared it up for me years ago.  At one time when I was much younger we cruised with BC's.  Even I could clearly understand what I had was Real ID and that an EDL was basically a state issued passport card only issued by states on the northern border.

[MardiGras10022021]

Gary and i are from Michigan. My DLsays enhanced his does not. He almost did not get to go. Both are stared.

[SRF]

9 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Only about 15% of Americans travel internationally in a given year.

 

That number is like 85% for Europeans.

 

Americans ARE pretty insular.

 

Which is somewhat misleading as most Europeans can drive to lunch in another country. 😄

 

[SRF]

14 minutes ago, MardiGras10022021 said:

Gary and i are from Michigan. My DLsays enhanced his does not. He almost did not get to go. Both are stared.

 

Star is REAL ID.

[SRF]

2 hours ago, ray98 said:

 I have no idea.  I am far from the smartest guy in the room but a simple Google search cleared it up for me years ago.  At one time when I was much younger we cruised with BC's.  Even I could clearly understand what I had was Real ID and that an EDL was basically a state issued passport card only issued by states on the northern border.

 

So many people do NOT look things up.  And rely on misunderstandings and partial information from people who don't know that they don't know.

 

[mz-s]

6 hours ago, ray98 said:

Even in a topic with this much information people still don't understand the difference between Real ID and an EDL.  Baffling.

 

It's a complicated issue - any time the government is involved it's complicated, but the fact that people keep mentioning things that have nothing to do with cruising doesn't help make it any clearer.

[TheLargeFamily]

Call me crazy/stupid/whatever, but I think the inconsistencies in DL's is confusing. I had googled "does Texas have enhanced drivers license" and gotten confusing results (I shared a pic within this thread). Is it my fault that I didn't do more digging? Sure! But, instead, I grabbed hubby's birth certificate as I was packing. Glad I did! 

 

Then there's passport cards vs passports. My husband will renew his passport. As for the kids, I am in decision paralysis. 

[kd1044]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:06 AM, Potstech said:

Do not get the passport card as there is a false impression it is the same as a passport book. The book is the gold standard for travel to most countries.

 

I also always get both, passport and passport card.  I have kept a current passport ever since 9/11.  I keep my passport card on me in an RFID protective sleeve.  Who needs a real ID when you can use your passport card.  I will breakdown some day and get my real ID, but I think I will hold out as long as I can.

 

Has anyone used the Mobile Passport Control App?  Does it work well?

 

I also sprang for Global Entry.  I find that it helps alot too.

Edited April 4 by kd1044
misspelling

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, TheLargeFamily said:

Call me crazy/stupid/whatever, but I think the inconsistencies in DL's is confusing. I had googled "does Texas have enhanced drivers license" and gotten confusing results (I shared a pic within this thread). Is it my fault that I didn't do more digging? Sure! But, instead, I grabbed hubby's birth certificate as I was packing. Glad I did! 

 

Then there's passport cards vs passports. My husband will renew his passport. As for the kids, I am in decision paralysis. 

As I said earlier, it's inconsistencies that people use in their language that is the issue. Since more documentation is required to obtain a REAL ID one can say that it is enhanced versus a regular license but then that doesn't mean it's an Enhanced Drivers License. The proper search term is "what is the difference between a REAL ID and an Enhanced Drivers License" which gives better results and even includes images. But as mentioned, people don't know what they don't know so this makes it difficult. (I have read of one gentleman from Texas who showed up with only his license, thinking it was all that he needed. Fortunately for him someone at home was able to fax a copy of his birth cert to the port.) 

 

And as I also pointed out the Carnival FAQ also contains this vital information, but it's paragraphs down from the section that talks about using an EDL to cruise. So in the "what travel documentation section" it has two introductory paragraphs, then a section "US domestic cruises" and under this it lists "State Enhanced Drivers License" as acceptable. Then it has 8 other sections, from "Europe and Transatlantic Cruises" to "The US Passport Card" before getting to the section "State Enhanced Drivers License (EDL)". If one takes the time to scroll down and read this critical information then boom, there's the difference between the two right there. Again, people don't know what they don't know, so they don't know that they have to scroll down to find out critical info. Perhaps if CCL added "see important information below" after saying a "State Enhanced Drivers License" can be used it would make more people look, but who really knows.

[aborgman]

14 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Which is somewhat misleading as most Europeans can drive to lunch in another country. 😄

 

 

 

That is the point.

 

Europeans - because they can travel internationally much easier - DO travel internationally much more, and thus have more experience dealing with documents needed for traveling internationally.

 

Americans don't know - because most have never done it, or have only done it once years ago and the rules change.

[sparks1093]

2 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

That is the point.

 

Europeans - because they can travel internationally much easier - DO travel internationally much more, and thus have more experience dealing with documents needed for traveling internationally.

 

Americans don't know - because most have never done it, or have only done it once years ago and the rules change.

And a lot of it is location. I would wager that a higher percentage of folks in my village have traveled up to Canada than those at the other end of the state, which is about 190 miles from here, if only because of travel time involved. The folks we are traveling with for our next cruise obtained passports for the trip simply because it saves them so much to fly to Florida from Montreal that they save money even with the passport expense. As US citizens we can travel to a wide variety of locations, including tropical beach locations, with nothing more than a drivers license. Traveling abroad is pricey and out of the reach of many.

[ray98]

12 hours ago, TheLargeFamily said:

Call me crazy/stupid/whatever, but I think the inconsistencies in DL's is confusing. I had googled "does Texas have enhanced drivers license" and gotten confusing results (I shared a pic within this thread). Is it my fault that I didn't do more digging? Sure! But, instead, I grabbed hubby's birth certificate as I was packing. Glad I did! 

 

Then there's passport cards vs passports. My husband will renew his passport. As for the kids, I am in decision paralysis. 

 

....but it really isn't complicated, people just make it that way.  For decades many states gave out DL's like candy.  That is what prompted the Real ID standard, the government said lets make sure people are who they say they are and required identity documentation.  That is all it is.

 

EDL's are a niche that fills the same role as a federal passport card.  When entry to our neighboring countries by DL went away it created a need for those in border areas who commonly cross.  The EDL/Passport card replaced it, it carries all the same citizenship and identity verification but is easily carried in a wallet.

[TheLargeFamily]

10 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

....but it really isn't complicated, people just make it that way.  For decades many states gave out DL's like candy.  That is what prompted the Real ID standard, the government said lets make sure people are who they say they are and required identity documentation.  That is all it is.

 

EDL's are a niche that fills the same role as a federal passport card.  When entry to our neighboring countries by DL went away it created a need for those in border areas who commonly cross.  The EDL/Passport card replaced it, it carries all the same citizenship and identity verification but is easily carried in a wallet.

You're right. It's not complicated... once you're actually aware that there are different types of driver licenses.