Revamp of C&A tiers? Cruises getting expensive!

[smokeybandit]

58 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Jason Liberty better remember that full ships today doesn't guarentee full ships tomorrow and realize just who is filling them. Look at the numbers people post about their cruise compositions. There are a lot of repeat cruisers. If those folks were not there would there be enough newbies to keep those ships full? I don't know and I'm not sure Jason wants to find out. Consumer debt is at an all time high. He may just not want to rattle the cage too much of those who choose to spend their money with RCI. Eventually the bottom is going to fall out of this debt ridden economy.

 

And as far as occasional cruisers losing their status, that will accomplish nothing other than to make them more likely to sample other cruise lines. D+ and Pinnacle level is hardly filled with people who only cruise once every few years.

I thought I've recently read that first time cruisers are at an all time high.

[Ocean Boy]

11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I thought I've recently read that first time cruisers are at an all time high.

Does that translate to they are filling the ships?

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Does that translate to they are filling the ships?

Based on the numbers, most certainly yes.

 

While I know it's just a single data point among many, my cruise last month was 3900 out of 4000 total occupancy on Adventure with nearly half being first time cruisers.

[SUgwoz]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Does that translate to they are filling the ships?

Older ships/transatlantic cruises are primarily filled with veteran cruisers.  Newer ships, shorter cruises are filled being filled by newer cruisers.  The latter ones being more expensive per passenger.

[Ocean Boy]

24 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Based on the numbers, most certainly yes.

 

While I know it's just a single data point among many, my cruise last month was 3900 out of 4000 total occupancy on Adventure with nearly half being first time cruisers.

Which means half were not first time cruisers. My point was the newbies won't fill the ships on their own.

[Ocean Boy]

23 minutes ago, SUgwoz said:

Older ships/transatlantic cruises are primarily filled with veteran cruisers.  Newer ships, shorter cruises are filled being filled by newer cruisers.  The latter ones being more expensive per passenger.

If the cruise lines can keep that up then good for them.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

Which means half were not first time cruisers. My point was the newbies won't fill the ships on their own.

They won't. But newbies make up a bigger percentage of those on a ship than they ever have in the modern cruising era.

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

They won't. But newbies make up a bigger percentage of those on a ship than they ever have in the modern cruising era.

I wonder how many will be one hit wonders.

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I wonder how many will be one hit wonders.

There was a survey done about a year or so ago that found the number of first time cruisers who said they planned to sail again was significantly up.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

There was a survey done about a year or so ago that found the number of first time cruisers who said they planned to sail again was significantly up.

Significantly up is what they will be paying.

[SUgwoz]

4 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I wonder how many will be one hit wonders.

20-30 years ago wasn't the majority that make up Diamond and above now new cruisers?

[Jasukkie]

So many of the drinks on a cruise ship are very low cost. The frou-frou drinks are sugar mix and cheap rum. Some people still buy packages, now at much higher prices. And those 4 or 5 free drinks are a psychology play. Your drinks are covered now, hey let's look at excursions since we have some money to burn now. The house always wins.

[nolegirl01]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Have you cruised lately? I cruise at least once a month and ships are packed. I have seen nothing to indicate people can’t afford to cruise. If RCI ever changes the tiers, it will be in the other direction (i.e. more days needed to reach Diamond, etc.). RCI already has too many Diamond members. Because of this they changed the name of the Diamond Lounge and on certain cruised perks are taken away from Diamonds on the ship. 

Yup, we just got off the Odyssey on Sunday. Yes the ship was packed, I was just bringing up a point that before covid, when cruises were a bit cheaper, it was easier for people to reach Diamond because you could book more cruises a year. Before you could take a few cruises in a year and get those points, but with cruise pricing going up, a family that used to take 3-4 cruises a year, might now only take 1-2... Someone like me still in Gold, I can't afford to take 1 cruise a month. We are trying to now take at least 1-2 a year but if this was before covid, I could have probably afford to book more. Ships will always be packed, cruise lines have ways to sell those tickets regardless. May it be new cruisers or repeat cruises, my point was looking more ahead to those that are trying to build up their points. Maybe they'll see a slow down in people going up in tiers. 

[Ocean Boy]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Have you cruised lately? I cruise at least once a month and ships are packed. I have seen nothing to indicate people can’t afford to cruise. 

You may be right but there is a reason why consumer credit card debt is at a staggering all time high. I'm not going to speculate on why that is.

[Tolkmit]

2 hours ago, rolloman said:

Royal is not going to give anyone 50-60 dollars a day. Secondly as I earlier described, the cost per beer is a few cents compared to the $8.00 they charge you. You cannot base your discussion on full retail price. Lastly, the only ones complaining about too many Diamonds are people on this message board. Changes in the past have been made because of the popularity of the program, such as over crowding in the lounge. They fixed it with drinks everywhere. The next step will be to get rid of the lounge altogether and turn it into a revenue generating space. 

 

Royal literally gives people 6 14 dollar cocktails a day already. I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't give those people a 60 dollar credit for alcohol each day, when they currently give up to 84 dollars per day. By changing the way they calculate it, from comped drinks per day to comped drink charges per day, they come out ahead, which is why I expect they'll do it at some point.

 

It's also nearly irrelevant what Royal's costs are for buying alcohol. What matters to any business is the loss of potential revenue. If you buy stuff for forty cents, then sell it to someone for 40 dollars one day; and the next day just let them have it for free; your bottom line the second day is still forty dollars worse. Nearly a third of Royal's income is onboard spending, and a significant portion of that is alcohol sales. Royal is 100% concerned about the inflation of higher tiers of the loyalty program, because it represents an ever increasing loss in potential revenue. If they think they can claw some of that back without an excessive negative backlash, the question is not if they will do so, the question is just when and how they will do so.

[Ocean Boy]

I can't help but wonder if periodically the execs at RCI get bored and plant threads like this for their spare time reading  entertainment.

[nolegirl01]

4 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I can't help but wonder if periodically the execs at RCI get bored and plant threads like this for their spare time reading  entertainment.

Any other post I would believe that but since I started this, I can wholeheartedly tell you I am in no shape or form nor have ever been a RCI exec and if I were, I would wholeheartedly not be in this forum because I would be too busy cruising using all of my exec discounts LOL

[rolloman]

25 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Royal literally gives people 6 14 dollar cocktails a day already. I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't give those people a 60 dollar credit for alcohol each day, when they currently give up to 84 dollars per day. By changing the way they calculate it, from comped drinks per day to comped drink charges per day, they come out ahead, which is why I expect they'll do it at some point.

 

It's also nearly irrelevant what Royal's costs are for buying alcohol. What matters to any business is the loss of potential revenue. If you buy stuff for forty cents, then sell it to someone for 40 dollars one day; and the next day just let them have it for free; your bottom line the second day is still forty dollars worse. Nearly a third of Royal's income is onboard spending, and a significant portion of that is alcohol sales. Royal is 100% concerned about the inflation of higher tiers of the loyalty program, because it represents an ever increasing loss in potential revenue. If they think they can claw some of that back without an excessive negative backlash, the question is not if they will do so, the question is just when and how they will do so.

Believe what you want. Giving away drinks which is of minor consequence to the bottom line versus an onboard credit which could be used for something of higher consequence is ludicrous. Even if the credit was used for drinks that basically is a lesson in futility. Keep in mind, all cruise lines are giving away drinks in some shape or form. 

[rolloman]

8 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Have you cruised lately? I cruise at least once a month and ships are packed. I have seen nothing to indicate people can’t afford to cruise. If RCI ever changes the tiers, it will be in the other direction (i.e. more days needed to reach Diamond, etc.). RCI already has too many Diamond members. Because of this they changed the name of the Diamond Lounge and on certain cruised perks are taken away from Diamonds on the ship. 

You fail to share the fact these once a month cruises are casino comped. So one reason the ships are packed is because of the re-vamped program you participate in. I bring this to your attention because it goes against your argument. 

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

There was a survey done about a year or so ago that found the number of first time cruisers who said they planned to sail again was significantly up.

How many of the new cruisers were sailing because of pent up demand from the pandemic? Will these numbers eventually sink back to pre-pandemic levels? In other words, was there a temporary surge of new cruisers who liked it and will come back versus the one-and-done crowd. I mean, Royal is still building more mega ships that will probably sail full but how close are they to reaching maximum capacity to fill these ships.

[Pratique]

3 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I agree with you on this. Businesses will often chase a dollar today even if it costs them 10 dollars next week. And when you really think about it, just one year as CEO of RCI pretty much sets you up financially for the rest of your life so even if he screws up and gets the boot....

These new ship builds are pretty big investments. How many years until they break even on those? When the MBAs took over Disney Parks 25+ years ago they did the math and decided not to build a fifth gate at WDW even though attendance was high. Most attractions are designed with a 20-year lifespan but obviously many of them are much older than that. At this point I presume the parks have paid for themselves many times over and they are just a cash cow now.

[Jetdriver787]

I’ve always thought the C&A loyalty programme was very clever. Yes, there have been tweaks along the way, some of which people love and some of which they hate, but it does exactly what it is meant to do, by generating repeat business. 
 

That repeat business goes far beyond simply getting you to book another cruise, but it expands into the additional business you bring with you.

 

We have 7 kids who all cruised with us at one time or another as children. They are all now adults. Each and every one  has cruised at least once in their own right with their own families. All of those cruises have been on Royal Caribbean. I guess because it’s both a known product and because it rewards them with “benefits.”  All of this comes without any customer acquisition marketing spend on the part of the company. 
 

That aside, and I doubt I am alone here? But when pricing a cruise, I will take into account the apparent discounts that the loyalty tier affords combined with the benefits that come with a category or cabin to arrive at a “value” price. By example, the cruise I have in a fortnight reduces the effective price by 65% (of what actually was a very good price to begin with,) for the price of that cabin alone. 
 

If you like, it’s a case of the discounted ancillaries driving the cabin sale. A reverse of something like “Casino comps” where the free/discounted cabin is driving the ancillary revenue. 
 

 

[Tolkmit]

46 minutes ago, rolloman said:

Believe what you want. Giving away drinks which is of minor consequence to the bottom line versus an onboard credit which could be used for something of higher consequence is ludicrous. Even if the credit was used for drinks that basically is a lesson in futility. Keep in mind, all cruise lines are giving away drinks in some shape or form. 

 

Who said Royal would allow a drink credit to be used for something else?

And it's not what I "want" to believe, it's information from Royal's quarterly earnings reports. Around a third of their income is onboard spending. Alcohol sales represent their biggest single non-casino earner.

Edited April 10 by Tolkmit

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, nolegirl01 said:

Any other post I would believe that but since I started this, I can wholeheartedly tell you I am in no shape or form nor have ever been a RCI exec and if I were, I would wholeheartedly not be in this forum because I would be too busy cruising using all of my exec discounts LOL

Lol, I didn't mean this specific thread! 

[PhillyFan33579]

55 minutes ago, rolloman said:

You fail to share the fact these once a month cruises are casino comped. So one reason the ships are packed is because of the re-vamped program you participate in. I bring this to your attention because it goes against your argument. 

Most of my cruises are not casino comps. Over the last year or so I have gotten significantly fewer casino offers and I wasn’t getting a lot to begin with. Plus with casino offers I am still paying for my cruises, I am just paying for them ahead of time by donating a lot of money to the casino. Fewer casino offers is consistent with what others post online on a daily basis. No one knows for certain, but the consensus is casino offers have decreased due to the increased demand in cruising.