Revamp of C&A tiers? Cruises getting expensive!

[nelblu]

I've got a back-to-back 3 & 4 nights on Utopia in August thanks to the Casino promo of paying only for a 2nd Pax.  Taking my son along and the airfare for 2 from Newark to Orlando is almost double what I'm paying for the cruise fare ex PT&F.🤣

Edited April 10 by nelblu

[Charles4515]

12 hours ago, nolegirl01 said:

uise a month. We are trying to now take at least 1-2 a year but if this was before covid, I could have probably afford to book more. Ships will always be packed, cruise lines have ways to sell those tickets regardless

If cruises are priced too high they will have to reduce prices to sell tickets or reduce capacity, I.e. remove older ships from the fleet. They can’t sell the tickets regardless. 

[PhillyFan33579]

2 hours ago, nelblu said:

I've got a back-to-back 3 & 4 nights on Utopia in August thanks to the Casino promo of paying only for a 2nd Pax.  Taking my son along and the airfare for 2 from Newark to Orlando is almost double what I'm paying for the cruise fare ex PT&F.🤣

I haven’t been getting too many casino offers lately, but the ones I get are usually the ones like you booked. I refuse to book these offers because I have been spoiled, for lack of a better word, by much better offers in the past. My fear is too many people will book these offers and they will eventually become the new normal. 

[xpcdoojk]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:05 PM, Pratique said:

Most empirical studies of loyalty programs show that the effect of loyalty status on perceived brand value is higher for high-engagement customers (frequent return customers) than for low-engagement customers (infrequent return customers). And studies have also shown that brand loyalty often exists even without a corresponding loyalty program because it is based more on things like product quality and customer satisfaction than rewards (although everyone enjoys being treated "special" such as "early" boarding of airplanes).

 

If higher fares are causing people to cruise less frequently (because they have less spending power - paychecks not keeping up with inflation), then it is not clear that having a higher status will have much effect on repeat business because these customers are financially constrained.

 

Presumably there is value to the company in offering these loyalty programs, but it is likely tailored toward ensuring maximum revenue rather than specifically targeting levels of new guests versus repeat guests. In other words, the mix or new and repeat should always be such that revenue is maximized. So higher fares do not necessarily translate into a need to welcome more guests into higher loyalty tiers but rather a need to increase the number of new, infrequent customers (who may have to forego another vacation in order to afford a cruise).

 

I will happily take the free drinks and other perks but it is not as big a factor in whether I decide to cruise with Royal (or do something else) as bottom line costs. I may be willing to spend a little more if it comes with substantive loyalty perks, but not much more.

Yeah, I agree, it is not about the free drinks, but I do like them, very much.  It is about the FlowRider.🤣  If they didn’t have a FlowRider, I would be way less likely to book with them.  

[xpcdoojk]

On 4/9/2024 at 5:14 PM, Jetdriver787 said:

Except, that unlike the bar/restaurant, they are selling “duty free” alcohol from a bonded warehouse. That alone should double the ”profit” margin on a like for like comparison. The direct “cost” is likely to be negligible. To what extent it affects the otherwise purchase of drinks packages must be a consideration?

Can you taste the difference in the duty free alcohol and the alcohol at your favorite restaurant bar?  The fact that they are outside the local network is something that they should as a business exploit.  The true question is why is duty free cheaper than what you can buy locally…. Answer the government who is taking their cut.  I would like to buy like Royal if I had a bar, but I can’t because the government is stopping me.  I don’t see Royal as the villain.  I just see people who are exploited daily complaining about someone who isn’t.  

 

[Tatka]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:29 PM, HicksRA said:

Royal is not in business to do us any favors.  They will gouge us as long as it’s beneficial to the stockholders. Don’t look for anything to change as long as they’re selling out cruises. 

Gouge?
They are not government. Not even American company, They lost billions during Covid. They started to be profitable only by the end of 2022, still they need to pay back loans.

[xpcdoojk]

16 hours ago, rolloman said:

Royal is not going to give anyone 50-60 dollars a day. Secondly as I earlier described, the cost per beer is a few cents compared to the $8.00 they charge you. You cannot base your discussion on full retail price. Lastly, the only ones complaining about too many Diamonds are people on this message board. Changes in the past have been made because of the popularity of the program, such as over crowding in the lounge. They fixed it with drinks everywhere. The next step will be to get rid of the lounge altogether and turn it into a revenue generating space. 

12 years ago I spent close to a couple of weeks at Atlantis on Paradise Island with a couple of hundred guests of mine.  Beer in 2012 from the refrigerator in your room was $6 for a local beer.  It was $6 if they brought it to you at the pool, or while you were having lunch.  Breakfast at the buffet was $40 a person, plus a 18% gratuity.  Dinner was OMG.  I can only imagine what things cost there now.  If you can’t afford to cruise with any cruise line, don’t.  They will miss you, but complaining about it don’t mean a thing.  O, and dinner for the pile one night, buffet style with an open bar was about 30K.  The food was average at best and some of the beer was cold.  

[xpcdoojk]

13 hours ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Royal literally gives people 6 14 dollar cocktails a day already. I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't give those people a 60 dollar credit for alcohol each day, when they currently give up to 84 dollars per day. By changing the way they calculate it, from comped drinks per day to comped drink charges per day, they come out ahead, which is why I expect they'll do it at some point.

 

It's also nearly irrelevant what Royal's costs are for buying alcohol. What matters to any business is the loss of potential revenue. If you buy stuff for forty cents, then sell it to someone for 40 dollars one day; and the next day just let them have it for free; your bottom line the second day is still forty dollars worse. Nearly a third of Royal's income is onboard spending, and a significant portion of that is alcohol sales. Royal is 100% concerned about the inflation of higher tiers of the loyalty program, because it represents an ever increasing loss in potential revenue. If they think they can claw some of that back without an excessive negative backlash, the question is not if they will do so, the question is just when and how they will do so.

Ok, while rolloman used to be one of my favorite posters and has since become a curmudgeon, (I am well on my way too) it doesn’t change the fact that the 84$ a day they are giving you might cost them 10$ a day and $60 dollars actually costs $60… some people don’t drink so, do you think they wouldn’t prefer an actual discount or per diem over getting 6 free cokes?  That actually cost about $1 total.  I am pretty certain they are going to want their $60 to cover a massage or money for the slot machine.  

[cublet]

22 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

I have no plans to lose the lottery this weekend. But I bet I will!

 

If a Hotel Director is even in the loop on board level discussions like that, which I doubt, they’re hardly likely to reveal confidential information at an officers’ lunch.

 

RCG could actually play it quite cleverly and use a program merger to offer carrots and sticks to encourage more veteran top tier cruisers to move from Royal to Celebrity.

Hello,

 

Introduce a Single Supplement on X of 50% similar to on Royal and I'll be there.

 

Regards,

Cublet

 

[nelblu]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I haven’t been getting too many casino offers lately, but the ones I get are usually the ones like you booked. I refuse to book these offers because I have been spoiled, for lack of a better word, by much better offers in the past. My fear is too many people will book these offers and they will eventually become the new normal. 

I usually don't take these offers and take the $ off, but the bottom line price was too good to refuse and especially on a brand-new ship.  My only concern is that I usually book a balcony and this reserve is for an interior.

[Tolkmit]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:37 PM, xpcdoojk said:

Ok, while rolloman used to be one of my favorite posters and has since become a curmudgeon, (I am well on my way too) it doesn’t change the fact that the 84$ a day they are giving you might cost them 10$ a day and $60 dollars actually costs $60… some people don’t drink so, do you think they wouldn’t prefer an actual discount or per diem over getting 6 free cokes?  That actually cost about $1 total.  I am pretty certain they are going to want their $60 to cover a massage or money for the slot machine.  

 

No, a 60 dollar drink credit would not actually cost them 60 dollars anymore than giving a set number of free drinks a day does. Like... you know how you get a 6$ slot machine credit as Diamond? You can't spend that anywhere else. I'm not sure where the thought a drink credit would need to work differently, but... no. The way it's spelled out clearly in their terms and conditions, quote "Slot machine credit ... is non-transferrable, has no cash value" etc; they could easily do for drink credit.

[Ocean Boy]

I'm not quite sure why everyone keeps trying to find fixes for something that isn't really broken. RCI has plenty of customers who like the product enough to keep coming back which is great for any company, they are sailing with full ships, and they have found a fix for the, supposedly, over crowded Crown Lounge. So they maybe have a cost of $4-6 per D-P per day in drink ingredients and that is assuming everyone maxes out their benefit every day. Their cruise fares have increased substantially. So in return for that $6 investment they are getting several hundred to thousand dollars more per booking while cutting back on service and, subjectively, food quality. The math isn't that hard to do.

 

And anyone who thinks that cruise fares would drop by eliminating the drink perk is quite simply delusional. The only thing that will drop cruise fares is for people to stop paying them. However, I'm sure all those execs in Miami sleep well at night knowing that so many people are looking for ways to increase those multi million dollar salaries. Funny thing, I'm not aware of any of them suggesting pay cuts for the good of the company.

[Cruise a holic]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:13 PM, OCSC Mike said:

 

Given how full ships are sailing, the evidence isn't showing this (yet).

Recently off the Icon of the Seas- huge ship- expensive and it appeared full.  The rich are getting richer and will continue to pay the crazy high rates- I do not believe that the fares will come down.The cabins on the new ships seem smaller.  Just lots more glitz.

[twangster]

I'm just going to say I'm highly offended (not really) that as a Pinnacle I only get 6 drinks per day versus D+ that get 5 drinks per day.

 

D+ is 175 pts and P is 700 pts.  So basically D+ is 0.25P or P is 4D+.

 

If it takes 4 times the points to go from 175 for D+, to 700 for P, then clearly P should get 4 times the D+ drinks.  Instead of the 20 drinks that P have earned, we get one lousy stinkin' drink compared to D+.  Way to recognize those "most loyal top cruisers" as they like to say at top tier.

 

D are getting the most bang for the point registering 0.05 drinks per point, while D+ are nearly half that at 0.0285 drinks per point.  Meanwhile P are getting screwed at 0.00857 drinks per point! 

 

Based on the D 0.05 drinks per point, D+ should get 8 drinks per day and P should get 35 drinks per day!  Oh the injustice!  

 

On a serious note, I'm afraid to tell my doctor I consume 6 drinks per day or 42 drinks per week on a 7 night cruise.  My doctor would go overboard if only he knew.  So I'm not overly concerned about this tragedy of inequity within the CAS.  As an old guy my consumption has gone down and it's not uncommon to get drink fatigue in mere days now so this "rip off" isn't nearly as dramatic as my words make it out to sound.

 

But come on man!  Throw the more loyal cruisers a specialty coffee or an extra drink or two so I can get some extra bottles of waters to make up for the fewer bottles of water that get delivered to my cabin upon boarding now. 🙃

 

Or maybe take some of those 29 drinks they are "stealing" from Pinnacle combined with the 3 drinks they are "stealing" from D+ and give Emerald one drink per day.  That'll give them a taste of the D life.  Seems like that would be a pretty big carrot to dangle in front of the donkey to keep them motivated and a reason to climb the ladder faster and it would give Plats something to drive for that is attainable for less frequent cruisers.  Plus it would make the tween Emerald tier something other than just awkward. 

[lovesthebeach2]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

I'm just going to say I'm highly offended (not really) that as a Pinnacle I only get 6 drinks per day versus D+ that get 5 drinks per day.

 

D+ is 175 pts and P is 700 pts.  So basically D+ is 0.25P or P is 4D+.

 

If it takes 4 times the points to go from 175 for D+, to 700 for P, then clearly P should get 4 times the D+ drinks.  Instead of the 20 drinks that P have earned, we get one lousy stinkin' drink compared to D+.  Way to recognize those "most loyal top cruisers" as they like to say at top tier.

 

D are getting the most bang for the point registering 0.05 drinks per point, while D+ are nearly half that at 0.0285 drinks per point.  Meanwhile P are getting screwed at 0.00857 drinks per point! 

 

Based on the D 0.05 drinks per point, D+ should get 8 drinks per day and P should get 35 drinks per day!  Oh the injustice!  

 

On a serious note, I'm afraid to tell my doctor I consume 6 drinks per day or 42 drinks per week on a 7 night cruise.  My doctor would go overboard if only he knew.  So I'm not overly concerned about this tragedy of inequity within the CAS.  As an old guy my consumption has gone down and it's not uncommon to get drink fatigue in mere days now so this "rip off" isn't nearly as dramatic as my words make it out to sound.

 

But come on man!  Throw the more loyal cruisers a specialty coffee or an extra drink or two so I can get some extra bottles of waters to make up for the fewer bottles of water that get delivered to my cabin upon boarding now. 🙃

 

Or maybe take some of those 29 drinks they are "stealing" from Pinnacle combined with the 3 drinks they are "stealing" from D+ and give Emerald one drink per day.  That'll give them a taste of the D life.  Seems like that would be a pretty big carrot to dangle in front of the donkey to keep them motivated and a reason to climb the ladder faster and it would give Plats something to drive for that is attainable for less frequent cruisers.  Plus it would make the tween Emerald tier something other than just awkward. 

Were in the lowly D+ group ( but closer to P ) and there’s no way I the drink 5 drinks a day and let’s not forget the bottles of wine we get too….. 🤪 

[LisaLisa87]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Or maybe take some of those 29 drinks they are "stealing" from Pinnacle combined with the 3 drinks they are "stealing" from D+ and give Emerald one drink per day.  That'll give them a taste of the D life.  Seems like that would be a pretty big carrot to dangle in front of the donkey to keep them motivated and a reason to climb the ladder faster and it would give Plats something to drive for that is attainable for less frequent cruisers.  Plus it would make the tween Emerald tier something other than just awkward. 

 Awkward Emerald here, and I wouldn’t say no to a free drink. 
 

[doghog]

3 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Were in the lowly D+ group ( but closer to P ) and there’s no way I the drink 5 drinks a day and let’s not forget the bottles of wine we get too….. 🤪 

My wife doesn't either, but that's where I step in. 😂🍻

[I Love RCI]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

I'm just going to say I'm highly offended (not really) that as a Pinnacle I only get 6 drinks per day versus D+ that get 5 drinks per day.

 

D+ is 175 pts and P is 700 pts.  So basically D+ is 0.25P or P is 4D+.

 

If it takes 4 times the points to go from 175 for D+, to 700 for P, then clearly P should get 4 times the D+ drinks.  Instead of the 20 drinks that P have earned, we get one lousy stinkin' drink compared to D+.  Way to recognize those "most loyal top cruisers" as they like to say at top tier.

 

 

Maybe instead of the Pinnacle name badge, they give all pins the golden royal caribbean chalice instead!

🤣

 

Edited April 16 by I Love RCI
added image

[Pratique]

28 minutes ago, doghog said:

My wife doesn't either, but that's where I step in. 😂🍻

Ha I used to do that too until my wife figured out she could use her vouchers for bottled juice. Now she's using up all her vouchers and asking me if I have any unused ones.

[firefly333]

On 4/10/2024 at 6:51 PM, nelblu said:

I've got a back-to-back 3 & 4 nights on Utopia in August thanks to the Casino promo of paying only for a 2nd Pax.  Taking my son along and the airfare for 2 from Newark to Orlando is almost double what I'm paying for the cruise fare ex PT&F.🤣

That would be my worry, I gamble to get offers and all my offers are in ports I have to fly to

[cruisegirl1]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

I'm just going to say I'm highly offended (not really) that as a Pinnacle I only get 6 drinks per day versus D+ that get 5 drinks per day.

 

D+ is 175 pts and P is 700 pts.  So basically D+ is 0.25P or P is 4D+.

 

If it takes 4 times the points to go from 175 for D+, to 700 for P, then clearly P should get 4 times the D+ drinks.  Instead of the 20 drinks that P have earned, we get one lousy stinkin' drink compared to D+.  Way to recognize those "most loyal top cruisers" as they like to say at top tier.

 

D are getting the most bang for the point registering 0.05 drinks per point, while D+ are nearly half that at 0.0285 drinks per point.  Meanwhile P are getting screwed at 0.00857 drinks per point! 

 

Based on the D 0.05 drinks per point, D+ should get 8 drinks per day and P should get 35 drinks per day!  Oh the injustice!  

 

On a serious note, I'm afraid to tell my doctor I consume 6 drinks per day or 42 drinks per week on a 7 night cruise.  My doctor would go overboard if only he knew.  So I'm not overly concerned about this tragedy of inequity within the CAS.  As an old guy my consumption has gone down and it's not uncommon to get drink fatigue in mere days now so this "rip off" isn't nearly as dramatic as my words make it out to sound.

 

But come on man!  Throw the more loyal cruisers a specialty coffee or an extra drink or two so I can get some extra bottles of waters to make up for the fewer bottles of water that get delivered to my cabin upon boarding now. 🙃

 

Or maybe take some of those 29 drinks they are "stealing" from Pinnacle combined with the 3 drinks they are "stealing" from D+ and give Emerald one drink per day.  That'll give them a taste of the D life.  Seems like that would be a pretty big carrot to dangle in front of the donkey to keep them motivated and a reason to climb the ladder faster and it would give Plats something to drive for that is attainable for less frequent cruisers.  Plus it would make the tween Emerald tier something other than just awkward. 

 

Don't forget that  many Pinnacles have way more than 700 points.   I have no idea what the average is, but on many cruises the top 3 cruisers  all have in the high 2000 points.  Except for Internet and a free Pinnacle cruise ( and one for every 350 points)  there is little difference in upper tier D+ and Pinnacle.  These two groups share the same amenity list have the same "cheers" meal, BOGO, wash and fold and more.

 

So by your math, the P drink benefit is worth even less.   Frankly the drink  benefit is wasted in me.  Don't get me wrong, I like a drink or two,  but 6 is overkill for me.   

 

M

[doghog]

7 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Ha I used to do that too until my wife figured out she could use her vouchers for bottled juice. Now she's using up all her vouchers and asking me if I have any unused ones.

SHHHHHH!!! 🤣

[Tree_skier]

On 4/10/2024 at 6:47 AM, Ocean Boy said:

You may be right but there is a reason why consumer credit card debt is at a staggering all time high. I'm not going to speculate on why that is.

 

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc

 

On 4/10/2024 at 8:55 AM, PhillyFan33579 said:

I would hope people are not going into credit card debt to go on a cruise or any vacation for that matter. But I guess the smart thing is to not speculate like you stated. 

 

I would hope that is true too but I doubt it.  The mentality that says "play now, pay later" has been a defining characteristic of modern consumer behavior for some time now.