Is this discrimination

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

I filled the questionnaire for Queen Vic in January on behalf of my mother and stated that she always uses a walking stick but would also be taking a walker onboard. I then stated that we (my OH and I) would be providing one-to-one assistance during any emergencies. That was sufficient then - I think there was a high(ish) proportion of passengers with walking sticks! 

It seems to be different every time.  My husband didn't even take his walking stick on Britannia as he was in a good period. Lo and behold they marked him for one man assistance.

[david63]

33 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

You want every passenger on board to complete an accessibility needs form, 99%+ pointlessly doing so, and with the vast majority of the remaining <1% doing so anyway, just to capture the one or two people who either didn't follow the instructions or had a poor travel agent.

 

Hmmm...

Every passenger is supposed to do that now - with the first question being Do you need assistance Yes?No - if "no" then end of form and job done, tales all of 10 seconds.

 

I would question that there are less than 1% of passengers who would need to complete the form - in my experience I would put it nearer 30% and that is only those with visible disabilities - probably more with hidden disabilities.

[9265359]

21 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Tender tests are generally conducted in private,

 

Not on the many ships I have been on they haven't been.

 

5 minutes ago, happy v said:

Everyone does. On all new bookings you are asked if you have any problems which may need assistance. If the answer is no, you are done. If it is yes you will then have to answer further questions 

 

 

So exactly the same as now and no change?

 

1 minute ago, david63 said:

Every passenger is supposed to do that now - with the first question being Do you need assistance Yes?No - if "no" then end of form and job done, tales all of 10 seconds.

 

The pop up asks you to complete the pre-registration if you need assistance. If you don't then there is no form to complete.

 

3 minutes ago, david63 said:

I would question that there are less than 1% of passengers who would need to complete the form - in my experience I would put it nearer 30% and that is only those with visible disabilities - probably more with hidden disabilities.

 

Quite possibly, but that just means that even more people should be challenged and even more hassle for P&O when they enforce the safety procedures.

[Adawn47]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Since mid 2023.  The form is in your cruise personaliser.

That's why I haven't seen a form then, our last cruise was 2019.

We have been considering another cruise now Frank is feeling much better, but with a minefield of all the new rules and regs to wade through I might think again. 

Avril

[david63]

26 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

but that just means that even more people should be challenged and even more hassle for P&O when they enforce the safety procedures.

That is the rod that they have made for their own back and as I said before unless someone gets a grip it is only going to get worse.

 

29 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

The pop up asks you to complete the pre-registration if you need assistance. If you don't then there is no form to complete.

The pop-up may say that but the form says differently.

[Megabear2]

33 minutes ago, david63 said:

Every passenger is supposed to do that now - with the first question being Do you need assistance Yes?No - if "no" then end of form and job done, tales all of 10 seconds.

 

I would question that there are less than 1% of passengers who would need to complete the form - in my experience I would put it nearer 30% and that is only those with visible disabilities - probably more with hidden disabilities.

I cannot see the problem with your suggestion. Everyone used to fill in the medical questionnaire so why couldn't they do the mobility one?

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

That's why I haven't seen a form then, our last cruise was 2019.

We have been considering another cruise now Frank is feeling much better, but with a minefield of all the new rules and regs to wade through I might think again. 

Avril

Avril it really isn't so bad.  Basically err on the side of caution and fill in the form.  Frank takes his walking poles, just tick the box for a stick.  You are one of the lucky ones, you know about the pitfalls from these boards. There's lots on here who'd guide you through the form and we want it to be easy and right for you.  Just book your cruise with your normal travel agent and they'll help too.  

[9265359]

6 minutes ago, david63 said:

The pop-up may say that but the form says differently.

 

If that was the case then 99% of the customers would be denied boarding for not completing the form.

[david63]

2 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

If that was the case then 99% of the customers would be denied boarding for not completing the form.

No because the way the system operates at the moment is that no form completed = no issues - until you get to the port and then the problems start.

[Selbourne]

24 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We have been considering another cruise now Frank is feeling much better, but with a minefield of all the new rules and regs to wade through I might think again.

The way to cope with all the new rules and regulations Avril is to take a bottle of the strong stuff on board with you to ease the worries. Oops. No, sorry. You’re not permitted to do that anymore 🤣

 

On a serious note though, as @Megabear2 rightly says, those who use this forum and ask the right questions will be fine. The on board needs declaration is very straightforward and, touch wood, we’ve never had any issues. The biggest worry is that they don’t always acknowledge receipt, or that it’s been processed, so you are left wondering. Thankfully on the Cruise Personaliser for our booked cruises it shows that my wife has been allocated an evacuation chair, so I know that we are sorted.

 

Worst case scenario, I can’t see them denying boarding to someone with a walking stick who just uses it to steady themselves, if they can manage stairs fine. All the reports that I have seen in the press about people being denied boarding have been people turning up with undeclared scooters or wheelchairs.

[david63]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I can’t see them denying boarding to someone with a walking stick who just uses it to steady themselves, if they can manage stairs fine

Common sense says that but as we know common sense and Carnival do not make good bedfellows!

[terrierjohn]

4 hours ago, 9265359 said:

 

And there is the issue - do people actually read and follow instructions.

 

"He said: “P&O said they had sent me emails twice – but I’ve checked it online 30 times. I said I have done everything right.""

 

and the counter from P&O

 

“The on board needs questionnaire is on My P&O Cruises (our online portal) to be completed – it is not sent out by email. It is also very clear on the front page of My P&O Cruises that this is to be completed if needed.

 

“If Mr Ashton was booked in an accessible cabin, he or his agent will have been sent emails prompting him to login to My P&O Cruises to complete the questionnaire.

 

“We do advise on our website that wheelchairs/mobility scooters must be declared or they will be denied boarding. It is also within clause 21 of the booking conditions.”

 

However if P&O actually said this - 

 

He said: "They were willing to let me on board but without the wheelchair."

 

Then P&O are complete idiots, as someone not having a wheelchair that they normally use doesn't mean that they are suddenly able to climb stairs and not need assistance during evacuation!

 

 

From this it seems that P&O are trying to reduce the number of wheelchairs taken on board. If a passenger in a standard cabin sometimes needs a wheelchair for long trips ashore, but would be able to use the stairs on an emegency and have no need for an evac chair, and follows the rules of not leaving the wheelchair in the corridor, and keeps it in his cabin when not using it. Then what other possible reason could P&O have for denying him boarding?

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Totally agree with you, we have witnessed one wheelchair user pushing their chair down the beach, then needing assistance to reboard the coach to get back to the ship.

That might well be possible, if balance is the main issue then someone might be perfectly capable of pushing their wheelchair on the flat, but find it impossible to climb coach steps.without assistance.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Not everyone is proficient at using online tools, websites and emails. 

I know my mother has no idea what she is doing online, hence why she books through a TA. 

Are all TAs doing that though? Some are good some are bad. 

I agree people need to take responsibility for their actions, as long as they have been informed. 

P&O really need to make the form mandatory, then able bodied passengers would just state that no assistance is required, end of, whilst anyone answering yes, would then complete it with their details.  But I doubt that they will.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, 9265359 said:

 

You want every passenger on board to complete an accessibility needs form, 99%+ pointlessly doing so, and with the vast majority of the remaining <1% doing so anyway, just to capture the one or two people who either didn't follow the instructions or had a poor travel agent.

 

Hmmm...

Yes of course any sensible person would see that that is the best way to guarantee that the correct information is collected from everyone.

[9265359]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

No because the way the system operates at the moment is that no form completed = no issues - until you get to the port and then the problems start.

 

You said that every passenger needed to complete the form. If that was true then a passenger who didn't complete the form would not have complied with the requirements to board so would be denied.

 

You are not seeing thousands of people denied because it isn't necessary for every passenger to complete the form, only those that cannot evacuate unaided.

 

28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Yes of course any sensible person would see that that is the best way to guarantee that the correct information is collected from everyone.

 

It is sensible to collect detailed information from every passenger? That's going to be fun for P&O when they need to recruit hundreds of new staff to review all those forms.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

Just mentioned this to my wife and she said we recently had a phone call from our TA to ask if we needed any assistance for our cruise on Azura in July. Said it was a new policy and the TA wanted to check with us and complete the form if required. 

So i guess the information is out there and some TAs are all over it some are not. 

[FangedRose]

Just booked a cruise on board. Was asked "did I have any medical issues or any food allergies or mobility problems that would mean I needed assistance in case of emergency", and to let them know if that changed. So you are asked when booking.

Edited May 15 by FangedRose

[Windsurfboy]

54 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

P&O really need to make the form mandatory, then able bodied passengers would just state that no assistance is required, end of, whilst anyone answering yes, would then complete it with their details.  But I doubt that they will.

 

Everyone does have to tick or not tick assistance is needed as you book, or you cannot proceed. So by not ticking this you have explicitly said you don't need assistance.  I presume it's exactly the same on TA system. 

 

So to answer question above every able bodied person does state no assistance is needed

Edited May 15 by Windsurfboy

[emam]

5 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

 

• Will be bringing medical equipment or mobility devices on board
•  

 

Reading this I would not have classed a walking stick as a device. Though that could be because I don't use one.

[FangedRose]

Just now, emam said:

 

Reading this I would not have classed a walking stick as a device. Though that could be because I don't use one.

What would you class it as?  Nobody (now) uses it but as a mobility aid.

[Windsurfboy]

I have sympathy with P&O why  they need to be strict at the time of booking with the numbers requiring assistance chaird.

 

MANPOWER.

 

The question " I  need an assistance chair and I weigh less than 128Kg"  indicates that an assistance chair needs 4 people (as max weight people are allowed to lift is 32Kg). So at 4 people per chair there must be a very finite limit to the number they can cope with and evacuate a ship in a quite limited amount of time.

 

 

 

 

[jeanlyon]

45 minutes ago, FangedRose said:

What would you class it as?  Nobody (now) uses it but as a mobility aid.

Welll it's a good point.  I broke my hip 3 years ago and if I am going on a long walk, or the ground is not totally flat, I take a stick with me.  I don''t need it, it's just a help.  I have never taken it on a cruise, was thinking of taking it on the Norway one for the snow, but won't bother now.

[zap99]

6 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

If they go onboard they apparently mobility aids. Your guess ...

I was watching some YouTube videos of ultra fit folk hiking long distances at great speed using these poles.. just wondered what the difference was between them and a walking stick. In an emergency Gandalf could stand at the top of the stairs with his staff.......you shall not pass.

[jeanlyon]

5 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I was watching some YouTube videos of ultra fit folk hiking long distances at great speed using these poles.. just wondered what the difference was between them and a walking stick. In an emergency Gandalf could stand at the top of the stairs with his staff.......you shall not pass.

So I wonder what happens if you say you don't need any mobility aids, but you actually take a stick, like I was going to.