Crown Princess Incident

[bdjam]

Hardly misleading. If you want misleading, call Carnival's p.r. people when this kind of messy situation strikes (and it hits Carnival plenty often).

You must have had a pretty bad experience with Carnival’s PR department. Was that Carnival Cruise Line or Carnival Corporation?

[FC Corp]

Heather I think you are missing that I was teasing Gregg. It was not meant in any way as an insult and do not beleive Gregg would take it that way. We got on very well and never once discussed politics of any kind. I am deeply sorry you were offended in any way by my comments. They were most certainly not meant that way at all.

 

I repsect Gregg and his opinions as I do for most people. I am sorry my joke so upset you and others.

 

Nancy... Were you teasing? Were you really?

 

ha, now I am teasing. I knew it was an inside joke, just as the comment I made about telling room service "but I am in the owners cabin." Guess I kicked things off with Nancy about my vote for PoP star whatever and that it would be the first time I ever voted for a liberal.

 

Politics came up briefly during one of our dinners and Nancy so gracefully explained to my 13 yo son in so many words that though people may have political differences, it should not interfer with their ability to get along, etc.... I can't word it as elegant as Nancy did.

[HeatherInFlorida]

The ship sailed 85% full, and there wasn't time to add to the manifest, so no more than 15% could have cancelled -- and that's only if the ship had been sailing full.

 

I got that information from the Cruise Critic news article and from the emails they received from CC members who are onboard now ... I simply assumed all that was accurate.

[1sttimecruiserlady]

Hi I jsut wanted to let you know that I feel really bad about what happened that day on the ship. I was on the NCL Spirt right next to your

ship while in Florida. I feel really bad about what happened. It could have been our ship that it happened on. I hope that everyone that received injuries has a quick recovery. My prayers are with you all.

 

 

1sttimeladycruiser

NCL Spirit 7-16-06_7/22?06

[Ocean Boy]

It is easier to locate family in a muster station than in the small crwoded area on deck near a particular lifeboat. Do you really want a child to search for a parent outside on deck?

Better to be in the muster area where, if necessary, the crew can lead you to the proper place to board a lifeboat.

I've had some hard times trying to meet up with my family in the theater before a show what makes you think it will be easy during an emergency?

[caribill]

For a picture of an actual 80 degree roll, see

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060725/D8J312E81.html

[DNCButler]

Thanks, Nancy:) .

 

I agree with Escape. When I saw that post by DNC above about the Houston Chronicle piece I wondered about it because when I read it I didn't feel I was misled at all. I thought he was very clear. He decided to cancel. He never suggested the cruise was canceled that I saw.

 

20% of the passengers on the next cruise canceled for whatever reason. I would have canceled (and rebooked for a later sailing) because I'm just silly that way. It's a psychological thing.

 

It's interesting that I posed a "what if" scenario with a poll on our HAL board asking what would everyone do in this situation and almost everyone is saying they had packed their bags and they would go! The few who voted they would cancel didn't post.

Heather, I stand by my comments and I did go back and read it again. Just like you stated your opinions I can have mine as well, that's what this place is for right?

 

And for the record I would have sailed the modified sailing and used the refunded portion for my next cruise. To each his/her own then I guess.

[DNCButler]

I've had some hard times trying to meet up with my family in the theater before a show what makes you think it will be easy during an emergency?

Isn't that the truth, yet try to avoid some people onboard and you see them everywhere! :D

[Merion_Mom]

I've had some hard times trying to meet up with my family in the theater before a show what makes you think it will be easy during an emergency?

<sigh>

 

1. No one said that it would be "easy", but it is practical, and it does work.

 

2. It's hard to meet up with your family in the theatre before a show because the other people in the theatre aren't trying to help you accomplish that. In an emergency, they are.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather, I stand by my comments and I did go back and read it again. Just like you stated your opinions I can have mine as well, that's what this place is for right?

 

And for the record I would have sailed the modified sailing and used the refunded portion for my next cruise. To each his/her own then I guess.

 

I'm a little confused, DNC. Why are you singling me out? I just agreed with Escape who went into more detail regarding the article. Did I miss your response to that post?

 

To lay the issue to rest (hopefully), I didn't state an "opinion". Whether you would or would not have sailed the modified itinerary is not the question. You ripped apart the author of the Houston Chronicle piece and I was only pointing out that he was perfectly clear about what happened. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[TCF]

I find it disturbing that this incident has become an argument over whether one would, or would not, cruise with Princess again.

Far more concerning is the way Princess has communicated information regarding the regretable event to both its customers and the public. If this is a public relations "strategy" then those developing it are being paid way too much!

It was human error. OK. I am prepared to accept that it was human error; so tell me what the human error was. No, we can't tell you what the human error was because the investigators are still trying to determine for sure what happened. OK folks....which one is it??? Make up your mind! If the investigating officials don't know what the problem was, then how is it Princess knows it was human error?? Just asking??

The president of Princess is pleased that no one was injured seriously. Excuse me! A nine year old with a severed artery; an elderly man with broken ribs and punctured lung...that is not serious?

The people who were on the ship know that some were injured seriously and have said as much here and elsewhere. I am much more likely to believe them than Princess' PR department.

All many of us are asking for is some honest straight talk from Princess. Clearly their fear of being sued over rides all considerations of truth and honesty!

Tom:mad:

[SA Traveler]

I've read most but not all of this thread and the thing that really jumps out at me is that those who were actually on the cruise for the most part seem to be OK with the way Princess has handled the situation.

 

I have to agree that had I been there I too would have been pleased. I did experience the exact same thing on the HAL Ryndam in March of 2003. Smaller ship - not near as many passengers - happened in South America - never made the news. No compensation other than one hour of free drinks. I have pictures of smashed cases in the shops, broken dishes all over and I saw the water from the pool pouring over the side of the ship. Our friends' TV landed on one of their beds. Our cabin looked like there had been a break-in and it had been "trashed". (That's based on how my house looked after a break-in.) We were in the dining room and the "list" was to the side we were on. Not only did the dishes all fall in that direction but the chairs from the other side slid across to our side. I say "slid" because when I posted back then it was my first CC post and I was a troll since everyone know the chairs can't "roll" which is the term I used. There was lots of speculation about why the captain sounded so anxious in his first announcement. I think he was just "out of breath" from running up the stairs since we talked to someone who saw him run from the Windjammer about the time they heard the first glass break. There were several people injured seriously enough that they had to be hospitalized at the next port which as I recall was Buenas Aires. We never were aware of the Coast Guard or any South America equivalent doing any investigation. In a letter, the Captain explained it was a malfunction of the autopilot. The ship was "checked out" in Buenas Aires and we continued on to Rio and completed the cruise. The next cruise went on as scheduled.

 

I still think cruising is the best vacation and I won't stop (I would cruise on the Grand or the Crown Princess) but I do wonder how many other incidents like this may have occured that have received no publicity.

[LARGIN]

TCCF.. I see that all of your cruises have been non-Princess.. Perhaps you should stick to that plan..

[DNCButler]

I'm a little confused, DNC. Why are you singling me out? I just agreed with Escape who went into more detail regarding the article. Did I miss your response to that post?

 

To lay the issue to rest (hopefully), I didn't state an "opinion". Whether you would or would not have sailed the modified itinerary is not the question. You ripped apart the author of the Houston Chronicle piece and I was only pointing out that he was perfectly clear about what happened. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Hi Heather, not singling you out, just responding because you mentioned my comments. I didn't rip the guy apart I was talking about the fact that he didn't mention that those passengers were given options and that it was his choice to not take that cruise, I felt it was glossed over. The other part of my post was in response to an earlier link where it showed a 30 degree list but said that the ship had a 15 degree list. You may have liked his article but I did not. I WAS stating my opinion and you were too, your opinion was that you felt he was perfectly clear and my opinion was that he was not. Why do we need to get into these nit picking debates? That's all.

 

Now hopefully we can move forward with the discussion. I'm glad that Princess came out with the statement and I do understand that they can't release all information until the investigation is complete and they have all the facts.

[GBRBEB]

So, as I undestand this Princess has had 2 similar (February of the Grand -severe list) and this one that they are attrubuting to Human Error...

 

 

Is it a training deficiency on Princess's part ? (wouldn't one incident be enough for them to document what happened and advise staff accordingly...just firing employees doesn't always fix the problem ) Or is there something in the design in the Grand class ships that make them more subseptible to problems ?

[caviargal]

I've read most but not all of this thread and the thing that really jumps out at me is that those who were actually on the cruise for the most part seem to be OK with the way Princess has handled the situation.

 

 

I have not read any posts from those who had family members seriously injured or who sustained serious injuries themselves. Perhaps their perspective might differ.

[Ocean Boy]

<sigh>

 

1. No one said that it would be "easy", but it is practical, and it does work.

 

2. It's hard to meet up with your family in the theatre before a show because the other people in the theatre aren't trying to help you accomplish that. In an emergency, they are.

1. You are right, they didn't say it would be easy. They said it would be "EASIER" than meeting by a certain life boat. I have my doubts about that.

 

2. I would also imagine that other people in the theater are trying to meet up with their own families. I don't see why they would be more concerned with helping me meet up with mine.

 

Maybe the system does work as you say. However, as for myself, I'd rather be on the outside of a ship that is in trouble instead of some place inside. There is plenty of fresh air in the case of a fire and if the ship is going down I'm not going with it. Just my opinion. Feel free to take another <sigh>.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Originally Posted by HeatherInFlorida

I'm a little confused, DNC. Why are you singling me out? I just agreed with Escape who went into more detail regarding the article. Did I miss your response to that post?

 

To lay the issue to rest (hopefully), I didn't state an "opinion". Whether you would or would not have sailed the modified itinerary is not the question. You ripped apart the author of the Houston Chronicle piece and I was only pointing out that he was perfectly clear about what happened. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

 

 

Heather, you are absolutely right ... and your last sentence sums it up perfectly.

It was not an opinion (and surely not a fact) that the Houston column was misleading ... instead, that assertion was just flat-out untrue. The column was utterly clear and hid nothing; we've demonstrated that by rereading it. Facts are not subject to opinion.

The poster can either apologize for his mistake, or he can stick by it ... and thereby turn it into a deliberate attempt to distort reality. The choice is his.

For the bigger picture, the Chronicle column was especially useful to provide some context to this latest accident. It's hardly surprising that a series of screwups, mistakes and bad luck would make many, many people think twice about cruising ... the Houston Chronicle column was a very even-handed, reasonable examination of those concerns. Kudos to the newspaper for its honesty.

 

 

 

]

[MetalManCPA]

I can't defend Princess nor truly comment on the Crown listing because other than information from people who were on the cruise and posted in this forum, my news has come either from what has been posted on the Princess website or from the lovely senstaionalized news media of America.

 

From what I've read, and my several phone calls to Princess looking for information, I feel Princess, in relaying information to the public, has been as good as can be expected. Also, from accounts from those on the ship, those people mostly commend the actions of the crew.

 

Other people have said this, and my "gut" says that if there is any fault other than the actual events, then maybe, just maybe, Princess needs to tighten their employee training. I've never been on the bridge of a large ship. I can only imagine the complexities of the navigation systme and the responsibility that goes along with caring for 3,000+ passengers. The risk of liability is huge, and I venture a guess that most employees know this. Regardless, the higher the risk of a job, the more training a company must provide.

[don2738]

I guess I just wish to tell my version so folks will know that not everyone had as bad a time as some passengers. We wanted to finish the trip to NY!

 

Here's the story with photos:

 

http://mysite.verizon.net/don2738/cpreview.html

 

I am sorry for the folks that were so scared, hurt, etc. But most people were ok and I read a lot of exaggeration.

 

I'm sure I'd feel differently if my family had suffered.

[adnoid]

If anyone is curious what a ship looks like with a severe list, right now the car carrier "Cougar Ace" has taken a list south of the Aleutians. The crew has been removed, and the cause is still unknown (or if known has not been announced).

 

It's a big one, with a tall superstructure. For comparison, it's about 2/3 the size of the Crown Princess.

 

http://www.cargolaw.com/2000nightmare_singles.only.html.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Don (EscapefromConnecticut), thanks for your post. I agree it was clear and frankly I didn't read it as a negative against anyone. But it's not all that important in the scheme of things. Maybe you and I think alike because I actually did escape from CT;) , but I'd sure love to be back there ... best state in the country as far as I'm concerned.

 

DNC wants to have his say and then "move on" so I'm going to let him do that. The facts really do speak for themselves.

 

In the end, I just feel for all the people who were hurt so awfully, I can totally understand why some people would hesitate to cruise Princess for awhile because the truth is, human error or not, it's an error! That means Princess hired a human who made a very BIG mistake. There are mistakes and then there are mistakes. No question this was a big one that could have been even worse. Could it happen on any ship any time? Sure. But it happened on Princess so Princess takes the fall this time. Takes a little heat off RCI for a bit;) .

 

So great news it wasn't a faulty ship; just a faulty human:o . Either way, people got hurt badly. I'm just glad that those passengers on the ship were happy with the way Princess handled the whole thing. In the end, that's really all that matters here.

[beary]

It was human error. OK. I am prepared to accept that it was human error; so tell me what the human error was.

The president of Princess is pleased that no one was injured seriously. Excuse me! A nine year old with a severed artery; an elderly man with broken ribs and punctured lung...that is not serious?

The people who were on the ship know that some were injured seriously and have said as much here and elsewhere. I am much more likely to believe them than Princess' PR department.

All many of us are asking for is some honest straight talk from Princess. Clearly their fear of being sued over rides all considerations of truth and honesty!

Tom:mad:

[goodml]

Tom why are you posting under two different user names, "beary" and TCCF?" In case you weren't aware that is against board policy.

 

I personally don't find it unreasonable that approximately a week after the incident every single detail has not been released. The cruiseline admitted it was human error and is accepting responsibility. As has been stated numerous times, these investigations can take up to 18 months to complete and an official report would be released at that time. I think we need to be a little more realistic in our expectations.

[beary]

It was human error. OK. I am prepared to accept that it was human error; so tell me what the human error was. No, we can't tell you what the human error was because the investigators are still trying to determine for sure what happened.

 

I'm not sure why knowing what the human error was makes a difference. I'm somewhat close aircraft accident investigations and I can't think of a single time when a company came out so quick to admit human error. Usually it is the NTSB that is first to make the statement. You can even imagine the implications that will come from admitting it.

 

All many of us are asking for is some honest straight talk from Princess. Clearly their fear of being sued over rides all considerations of truth and honesty!

 

Clearly! You seem to understand the weight of the problem for Princess, so maybe patience is a prudent gesture until they can sort everything out and deal with the monetary actions that are surely going to follow.

 

I think Princess has gone above and beyond what they had to say before the official investigation was made public. And while it may have been made clear that it was a human error, it may not be clear yet how it got to that point yet. It would be silly to publicly presume what the investigators are going to report and then find out it was completely wrong. I'm still in shock they have admitted human error so quickly. They didn't have to say that just yet.

 

Over 90% of aircraft accidents are human error and over 90% of those accidents where caused by a series of events that led to the one wrong action. So it is not usually clear as to how the error occurred for several weeks or months of investigation.

 

Also, you would be amazed of the politics of the different Government divisions, Coast Guard, NTSB and others I'm sure in high profile cases. They each want to present their best face on these kinds of accidents and that alone can really delay reports. I am sure Princess is being told just what they can and can't say.

 

I am personally impressed with Princess and I will sail them again because of the way they have been handling this incident. I can't think of an equal situation that was handled better, can you?

 

One final thing. I don't know much about automated ship navigation equipment, but if it is similar to aircraft, a lot of it is very new and very complicated. I expect this is where you will find the human error. Even when the operator sees what is going wrong by pushing the wrong button, it could take a few seconds to find the right one to stop the action. Instruments and navigation technology is changing so fast today; training may not be keeping up either. It would not be the first time that Human factors engineering was ignored in the effort to get new technology out in the real world.

 

Kevin