Crown Princess Incident

[smeyer418]

Take a look at this thread (which was a result of the MSNBC article).

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=383306

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13976270/

 

I am confused. The MSNBC article quotes the report from WESH. Its nothing new or different or am I missing something?

[HeatherInFlorida]

The article is very interesting and I had not seen it so thank you so much for posting the link. But there's nothing final in it and I wouldn't accept that as the final diagnosis of the problem at all. Seems a little dismissive to say that a "junior officer" made a "mistake".

 

It's interesting that Princess says "mistakes happen" and uses the term "tumbling". Somehow the descriptions I've seen both on the news, here and in pictures and videos didn't bring the word "tumble" to mind. Words like "crashing" seem more appropriate.:o

[FLACRUISER99]

I am sure glad that USCG, NSTB, & Princess Cruiseline are the ones calling the shots and not all the posters that don't know the facts.

[lovn2liv]

Yikes! And I thought the HAL boards were bad sometimes! Not being a Princess poster, I don't know anyone here. But how did all this turn into such a row about $$$$ and trolls and flaming? I would think a thread this important could simply stay on topic. Obviously I'm wrong:o .

 

 

 

Not sure how you came up with your belief, but I sure hope that whoever the human was who committed the "oops" (if that is what happened) is no long guiding the ship in any way, shape or form. That's a rather large "oops":eek: .

 

Have to admit I've heard nothing about what caused this (and I've searched), but I still believe the Crown should have had more than a onceover glimpse before packing +3000 people back onboard and heading out to sea.

 

Heather Fl.. I agree with your comment on the unsettling of the "once over" ...I was on the 7/11 sailing and haven't been able to type much about the incident yet. I've been compiling a review and recount, but just haven't posted it. I do have pictures, and it does help to remind me that when I'm shaking a little over my planned trip again in the fall on this ship with an elderly mother, brother, sisters and nieces, it reenforces that I am not imagining how horrible this "incident" was. And that this is a serious matter. And in some cases you have to empower yourselves and educate yourselves on what to do if it does happen to you. This time around, we really didn't have a plan, just ran on instinct, and the graces of the powers to be.

It definitely disturbed me when I heard they were on their way to NY to pick up passengers for the next cruise. Yes, they were gracious to us for reimbursing our trip and expenses, etc. Not sure how long that that will take, but that was a good move. I think it calmed the masses. But...to not know that the problem hasn't been resolved greatly disturbed me when I heard they were sailing up to NY to continue the schedule. Maybe they absolutely are certain that it won't happen again, and that whatever it was has been resolved. (In other words, if it were human error, then hopefully that has been corrected, and they are running a simulator over and over again for the crew who touch any of those controls, so that they handle it like an involuntary reaction. Then great! Prevention is the way!) If it is software related and they "think" they have resolved it, NO bleeping WAY! In the software world, most times when something has been corrected, it usually effects something else. Not a programmer at all, but worked in QA and support for over 20 years for software companies. If it is human error then they must be confident that this event will not be duplicated. Why would Princess put more customers at risk along with the human beings that too work on this ship whose lives are just as valuable to them and their families? So I have to be confident that they absolutely know the problem is nonexistent now. Hope!!!

I'm not Princess bashing. I was interviewed when leaving the ship on Wednesday, and all I said was I love Princess, and believed their crew should be commended.

For those of us that are not in the know...and the reason behind why it did what it did is still a mystery, then I caution you on a few things if you are sailing again....These are things that hindsite helped me discover.

Elderly:

If you have an elderly companion or relative on this cruise, tell them to be careful. So many elderly were on the floor and hurt. My mom is 78 and has terrible balance. I can only imagine that she is not unique. Plus when you are in a wheel chair or need a walker, you can only imagine the outcome of an unusual list/tilt. If you notice something unnatural with the tilt (and believe me, you'll know it...then get them on the floor or in a stable spot where things cannot squash/crush them.

Children:

Know where they are. Bring your talkies...people say they are obnoxious...well take it from a parent who was on the 6th floor and their 8 year old was on the 17th floor in the camp. Although we climbed those stairs pretty damn quickly, and she was being supervised, (I am fat...and mad at myself, because I couldn't take the stairs 2 and 3 at a time like I use to and like my heart wanted me to) the apprehension of not knowing the situation as to what she was going through or went through was torture. There were lots of kids that were left to roam this ship on their own. Young teens, 10 and up. I consoled quite a few of them. Helped some get to their parents. Even consoled some in the camp, just telling them that we aren't using the elevators and your parents are making their way to get them. Can't imagine what they were going through not being able to be comforted by the fact that all in their party or family were OK. And just the need of seeing their loved ones could not be met initially due to the separation.

Educate yourself. Do you have a firedrill for home? You are supposed to...why not have an emergency drill on ship or on any vacation? Where are your exits? This ship is confusing. Get a grip on where you are so you do know your way out.

Talk with your fellow cruisers before you get on the ship and talk about what can be used for floatation. Why not? We had a young man with us that has worked on a retired naval carrier for 4 years as a volunteer. He was awesome. He knew exactly what to do, grabbed items from the cabin that we could use if indeed we ended up in the water. Why not be a little educated? I'm not talking about mass hysteria, just get a little educated.

He grabbed our hats, snorkel mask, sneakers (because of the glass), and jeans because they can be used to help you float along with our life jackets. We stuck together until my husband went down to get checked out because he banged up his leg. But the message was...stay together.

I agree that the muster drill is pretty lame, but they are on all of the ships that I've been on. Whether you are standing on a hot deck or in a lounge, you are either attentive or not. I was not! Absolutely Not! However I paid attention when we were putting on our life jackets.

What can Princess do at Muster:

I hope that Princess may add a little tidbit on what can be used on the ship as a floation device. Because chances are if you are not in your cabins, you won't get to a lifejacket unless it is part of your attire on the ship. They asked my daughter to take hers off after 90 minutes of so after the incident. She's 18 and was petrified. Saw only the sky from her stateroom. We were all very calm, but she was very quiet, but scared.

Some suggestion on this board were brought up that were brilliant and so easy to do. Put away objects that could become missiles in your staterooms.

I wish these ships would tack down heavy objects. Lots of damage was because of those "moving objects that became missiles". Comments were made about the Sanctuary having Fake Trees. Hindsite is...thank goodness. As heavy as those would have been, there is no doubt that some of those panels could have been shattered and God only knows what could have happened if that occurred.

I don't know if this thread added any value. I hope it did. It wasn't added to cause controversy. My thoughts are still not in total order. I know what I went through, however there are 4 others on this trip that experienced different obstacles and have different memories in my household.

With that said there are thousands that have had a different experience, and hopefully we can all respect that, and just give support to those that may just need to vent.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't say it mean.

And to the typos, I use a laptop and many times I am not in the proper typing position. Please forgive me. Sometimes, I just forget how to spell.

[mississauga]

Is there a link to Whylee77's photos? Would love to see them. I have read all the posts but don't remember seeing a link. Don't want to have to go back over so many pages to find it. Can someone please help?

Thanks in advance.

 

Merion_Mom,

Like everyone, I'd like to thank you for your postings during and after your cruise. Glad to hear you are ok and still in high spirits.

[RM]

I live in Central Florida where WESH is one of our stations. Please don't take this as written fact, WESH is famous for sensationalizing every news story. I think of it as tabloid news..........Please don't base your opinions on one source as they have not been the most reliable in the past.

[Charles4515]

I hope that Princess may add a little tidbit on what can be used on the ship as a floation device. Because chances are if you are not in your cabins, you won't get to a lifejacket unless it is part of your attire on the ship.

 

There are life jackets stored in locations other than the cabins.

[lovn2liv]

There are life jackets stored in locations other than the cabins.

Yes there are lifejackets in other locations...wouldn't it be great if they told you that during muster. There are lockers/bins/etc., which in some cases are hard to identify. In fact we noticed on the Crown that the day after embarkation they had labeled some of the lockers with Children's lifejackets...and then it seemed as if they were moving the # of Children's L.J.s to other muster station lockers to ensure they have enough for that specific cruise. We figured they did that for each cruise. Move them around as needed. I'm sure they have an excellent program, but why not share it? The additional Drs., nurses, EMTs, and military people that were on the ship during the "incident" were a tremendous help to the triage unit setup. I think that giving the passengers some great information on where things might be during an emergency would be fantastic.

 

A suggestion could be....like they do on a flight when you sit near an exit door...they show you what you need to do just in case...

Why not ask for 2 - 4 volunteers to sit in on an extra 30 minute drill for their muster station and go over the "extras" just in case the staff isn't available if something does happen?

 

Again, going through what we did, did show that there is room for improvement during an emergency. I'm not slamming Princess...I think any cruiseline could use some improvement on this. They are heavily relying on their own staff, when in reality, Princess was highly successful in handling the situation with not only their own staff, but with the help of the passengers. No doubt!

[KauaiKris]

This question may have been posed already, and if so, I apologize; I'll admit that I haven't made it through all of the 700 or so posts regarding this topic.

 

From what I've read, this was a very traumatic experience for many people -- some because they feared for their life, some because they were injured, and some because of the pain, injury and fear they saw in others.

 

My question -- for those of you who were on the ship -- is how many of the injuries people sustained were due to objects that COULD have been bolted down but were not? It sounds like many people had severe bumps and bruises, which is not surprising when one has been thrown from one side of the ship to the other. But others had badly broken bones and other severe injuries. Were the majority of injuries due to passengers being thrown about, or to passengers being hit by flying or falling objects?

 

Could many or most of these injuries been prevented, even when the ship listed badly, had objects been better secured?? Or would most of the injuries have occurred regardless?

[ozland]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the silver lining in this cloud-thank goodness they were just a few miles off the US mainland when this happened- the mind boggles to think how it would have gone down if this event had occurred a couple of days out at sea or off one of the islands that have minimal health facilities......

 

Not long before the "incident" the Captain had come on to do the usual announcement regarding our course and destination (NY). He specifically addressed the weather, noting that it could get somewhat rough during the night and next day (due to Tropical Storm Beryl). I'm not positive that he specifically said the name of the storm--but I had already read about it on-line). I remember thinking shortly afterwards that we were so fortunate that it hadn't happened during that long trek to NY -- and in what may have been rough seas.

 

That, to me, was definitely the silver-lining . . . :)

[lovn2liv]

This question may have been posed already, and if so, I apologize; I'll admit that I haven't made it through all of the 700 or so posts regarding this topic.

 

From what I've read, this was a very traumatic experience for many people -- some because they feared for their life, some because they were injured, and some because of the pain, injury and fear they saw in others.

 

My question -- for those of you who were on the ship -- is how many of the injuries people sustained were due to objects that COULD have been bolted down but were not? It sounds like many people had severe bumps and bruises, which is not surprising when one has been thrown from one side of the ship to the other. But others had badly broken bones and other severe injuries. Were the majority of injuries due to passengers being thrown about, or to passengers being hit by flying or falling objects?

 

Could many or most of these injuries been prevented, even when the ship listed badly, had objects been better secured?? Or would most of the injuries have occurred regardless?

From where we were, which was in the Casino and right outside the Piazza, most of the injuries that I saw were due to objects that were not tied down, and glass that was all over the place. Picture sliding down a slide with shards (spelling??) of glass on it. You would end up with not only a ride, but injuries due to the glass. If things were tied down and display cases, etc., were made out of another material, I'm sure there would have been less cuts and injuries. No question as to where we were and what we saw. We weren't in our room or in a hallway...we were where a lot of people were hurting, besides the Lido deck.

[ozland]

Thank you to all who have posted such interesting comments about the Crown Princess problem. I have spent the last hour reading all the recent posts. As a critical care nurse, I would like to thank Hillslife and all the others who gave of themselves to others in need, and thus again honored our profession.

 

Every incident of this type for better or worse brings out the good in most people, like Hillslife who immediately went to help others, and the bad, like the ones who may have tried to take advantage of others in the casino, etc. I would like to think most of the CC crowd is of the type to help others, not hurt them.

 

I am sure this thread will soon become one of blaming and hurting, but I really think we all need to remember it was first started to inform and help. It is very important for the people that were onboard and were very frightened to be able to tell their stories in a supportive environment.

 

We, the cruise critic posters, can be those persons who would continue to hurt and thus not allow proper healing from this incident. But, I would much rather we all allow ourselves to help our fellow posters who happened to be on the Crown Princess, to express their stories in a supportive environment which will help them heal. So, for once, take the ego stuff and the blaming and petty stuff and please put them on another board! Let's get together and help our fellow CC members to heal!

 

Having been on the 7/11 voyage I say AMEN! :)

[jfrenaye]

I am Mindy's mom... Mindy may add her own perspective, but I felt the need to offer an explanation.

 

Thanks to all of the CC'ers who came to her defense on this thread - she was not exaggerating her experience. We are glad to be home, but wouldn't hesitate to book another cruise!

 

:eek: I am chuckling here. Now folks are sending their parents in!

[Nliedel]

In answer to a few questions. I am sure Merionmom will back me up on this one. I remember them mentioning, at muster, that if we left our cabins without our lifejackets that they had others. I clearly remember that. I was in Club Fusion for muster, I think. It's pathetic, but I do not remember where my muster station was. I do remember what they said though.

 

I also don't want to get into the, "what should have been bolted down that was not" thing. I don't think you can reasonably bolt down booze and glasses and a lot of what went flying was that. I was bruised by the coffee table as it skudded across the room and I don't see how that could have been bolted down.

 

Mindy's Mom was on the ship with her, so posting here was natural. Mindy is not a young woman prone to malarky (I do love that word). I would take her at face value. I met her several times and was most impressed.

[Nliedel]

About Gregg. Poor guy is horribly misguided when it comes to Politics, but other than that he is a delightful fellow who has devoted himself to raising his, very well behaved and delightful son. I've never met a conservative that I found so nice and well mannered.

 

I also found his comments about the suite to be right on.

 

Do I think he's perfect? I've already addressed that in the first paragraph. Would I eat dinner with him? Heck we did it twice and I was not offended in the least. For someone with such a strikingly different world view I thought he was quite well behaved. I'd sail with him again anytime. I suspect he and my husband would get along well (same business), even tho Gene would have to forgive him the politics too :)

[KauaiKris]

I also don't want to get into the, "what should have been bolted down that was not" thing. I don't think you can reasonably bolt down booze and glasses and a lot of what went flying was that. I was bruised by the coffee table as it skudded across the room and I don't see how that could have been bolted down.

 

My particular question was not implying that everything should have been bolted down, and I'm not faulting Princess for having not bolted something down. But I was wondering what could have been, that wasn't, that would have made a big difference. I'd like to understand what they may be able to do in the future to lessen damage and injuries if a ship were to list, and be aware of what can't be prevented due to the impracticality of bolting down the whole ship. Some things simply cannot be bolted down. And some bumps and bruises will occur on a ship that lists this badly, even IF everything is bolted down.

 

I guess I was asking for my own peace of mind, hoping that some new precautions can be taken, since listing is more common than I had first thought it might be.

[MaryPoppinz]

I would be very, very surprised if Princess were not looking into some changes that could be made to prevent unnecessary injuries by bolting down what can reasonably be fixed in place.

 

I think the track record here is good -- look at some of the positive changes after the Star fire. Non-combustible balcony furniture, balconies under watch, and outdoor sprinklers.

 

I bet we will see some changes. Starting with the televisions!

[Dena]

I would be very, very surprised if Princess were not looking into some changes that could be made to prevent unnecessary injuries by bolting down what can reasonably be fixed in place.

 

I think the track record here is good -- look at some of the positive changes after the Star fire. Non-combustible balcony furniture, balconies under watch, and outdoor sprinklers.

 

I bet we will see some changes. Starting with the televisions!

 

DH and I were also very impressed and reassured by how rapidly changes were implemented after the fire. But Princess is somewhat inconsistent in this regard. After all, they knew someone was hurt by a falling TV in the first listing incident - and apparently made no changes.

 

I've also been thinking about the bars and the marble coffee tables. The display bottles of alcohol are there for psychological reasons and could be glued down and filled with either the real thing or colored water. The good stuff could be secured under the bar. I really don't want to start drinking out of plastic, but I would if it is shown that glasses actually have caused serious injuries. I would think heavy bottles would be a bigger problem.

 

Marble coffee tables could be easily bolted down. Why not, the dining tables are. And do we really need MARBLE tables. Marble is heavy; exotic woods (maybe with inlay) could be every bit as elegant and luxurious and much less lethal.

 

Cash registers and espresso machines should be bolted down too, I would think.

[Merion_Mom]

My particular question was not implying that everything should have been bolted down, and I'm not faulting Princess for having not bolted something down. But I was wondering what could have been, that wasn't, that would have made a big difference. I'd like to understand what they may be able to do in the future to lessen damage and injuries if a ship were to list, and be aware of what can't be prevented due to the impracticality of bolting down the whole ship. Some things simply cannot be bolted down. And some bumps and bruises will occur on a ship that lists this badly, even IF everything is bolted down.

 

I guess I was asking for my own peace of mind, hoping that some new precautions can be taken, since listing is more common than I had first thought it might be.

Nancy just said almost EXACTLY what I intended to type, so consider this another post saying that they DID tell us during muster drill (yes, in Club Fusion) that there were lifejackets all over the ship, and that if you were in your cabin and heard the alarm, you should grab it and ALL medications and head to your muster station, but if you weren't near your cabin, you should just head to the nearest muster station, and crew would give you another lifejacket.

 

As for other information that could be given out at the muster drill............honestly, would ANYONE be listening or remembering??? Alas, I think that it is human nature to take such things lightly, since "these things" never happen anyway, right?

 

Also, about the stuff that broke and contributed to a horrendous, dangerously sharp environment...........it seemed to mostly be glasses and plates, so that couldn't have been bolted down. The storage areas in the bathrooms could be much better secured ( a la Royal Caribbean ships), and there is NO excuse for having unsecured TVs that perch at or above head level.

 

In the Casino (this is what I heard from VERY reliable sources), most but NOT ALL of the tables were bolted down. The slot machines were secured, but THEY HADN'T FINISHED SECURING ALL OF THE TABLES, yet sailed for a month with them unsecured.

 

The marble topped tables in Vines are, as you look at them, unstable. It's no surprise that they tipped over and shattered. Alas, they look VERY pretty and very appropriate to their setting. Aesthetics trumped safety here.

 

The large drink machines in the International Cafe and at various bars were NOT secured, and they could have/should have been.

 

You know how glasses come out of the industrial dishwashers? And they are available at the buffet? In those rubber-coated racks that enclose the glass, all except for the top where you take it out? They could use those at the bars, instead of having them displayed like any land-based bar, basically loose on ordinary shelves.

 

My general conclusion is that MOST of the breakage would have happened anyway, but some of it was NOT a foregone conclusion, if rational planning had been done. (e.g., TVs, slurpee-machine-sized bar blenders).

 

The coffee table that hit Nancy was actually the GLASS TOP, not the frame (I think), which came off and rolled across the floor at her, like a discus. Yes, it is intended to just SIT on the frame, completely unsecured.

 

In the buffet, I don't see how they can better secure dishes (most of the plates DO sit below counter level in wells), and some of the silverware is wrapped in napkins, padding any possible sharp edges if they should become airborne. But whatever you are holding will go flying, and shatter into sharp shards upon impact.

 

Glasses are really pretty, and definitely a step up in "elegance" from plastic tumblers, but having been through this................I vote for plastic tumblers to be the majority type used. (it is something that I had noticed early on as being "nicer" than Royal Caribbean, but I am retracting that earlier impression :))

[sunshine 229]

Well just a few comments on this thread. I'm just kind of shocked at the way this has turned.

 

I don't really care how someone makes their money. Why does it matter in this thread. So what if someone has the OS? Someone has them on every cruise, are they the "bad guys" now because they can afford it?

 

I also don't care if someone profits from taking pictures as long as they didn't bypass someone in need in their efforts to take those pictures. Hope I said that correctly.

 

If I have typo's then darn me! I must get my glasses so that I can read what I just wrote. Such an inconvenience!

 

And as for the reporting on this, just like every other accident or tragedy, the press can't get it right because so many are telling different stories. Just reading through this I've read that the ship listed both to the right and left! Someone said that she "heard" that the captain wasn't at the bridge and not sure but she also seemed to say or imply that no one was at the bridge. After all the years I've been cruising I'd find that hard to believe.

 

So, I just want to say to all that were there, I'm glad that you all made it home safe and sound (most of you) and I hope that the 2 people that were in the hospital have a speedy recovery.

 

I am now anxiously awaiting the official technical report on what really happened and hopefully they can identify the real reason behind all this. We are sailing on Crown in November and I already sailed on her in June, and I'm still looking forward to going back despite this tragic incident.

 

Best regards to all!

 

I think I pretty much agree with all of this post.

 

I do have a problem that when I see someone who is IMO launching an unwarranted attack against another poster, I seem to have a knee jerk reaction to step in. To me the post questioning the earnings and ethics of the person who shared her pictures with us came off as an unwarranted attack.

 

I too am awaiting some sort of official and credible report on the cause of this list and will feel better about cruising on the Crown Princess once this occurrance has been explained.

[KauaiKris]

MerionMom,

 

Thank you for that detailed response on what wasn't (or couldn't be) secured that contributed to the injuries. I appreciated hearing it. I haven't known if the majority of injuries were related to broken glass, or something else, but I did want to be reassured that Princess could (and probably would) do some things to help minimize injuries in the future. Sounds like alot could not be prevented, but some things can. I'm hopeful that, as Mary Poppinz suggested, we'll quickly see some changes.

[Merion_Mom]

MerionMom,

 

Thank you for that detailed response on what wasn't (or couldn't be) secured that contributed to the injuries. I appreciated hearing it. I haven't known if the majority of injuries were related to broken glass, or something else, but I did want to be reassured that Princess could (and probably would) do some things to help minimize injuries in the future. Sounds like alot could not be prevented, but some things can. I'm hopeful that, as Mary Poppinz suggested, we'll quickly see some changes.

Kris, we often speculate on these boards (ok, I haven't seen it as much on the Princess boards, but it's a common theme over on the RC boards) about whether anyone from the cruiselines actually reads what we write here.

 

If they are smart, they will take all of our suggestions - FREE! no consultants' fees!!!!!!! - and consider implementing them. I've seen very few suggestions that do not have merit.

[lovn2liv]

Yes there are lifejackets in other locations...wouldn't it be great if they told you that during muster. There are lockers/bins/etc., which in some cases are hard to identify.

 

Yes, they do tell as at muster drill there are lifejackets in other locations...I guess I wasn't clear on my statement, my apologies. The point I was trying to make was...they are hard to identify where exactly they are...Why not have a graphic that is clear to see as to the location of these valuable life savers...that's all? Since our room was on Emerald, we were one floor up from Promenade so we ran and grabbed them.

 

Being in the Piazza 2 minutes after it happened, and seeing all of the cuts and blood from broken glass...there has to be another way of displaying their goods without all of the glass. The plant pots were rolling all over the place. Pretty as they are...bolt them down...find a way. I don't want to see "human bowling".

 

Bolt anything down that you can. I'd love to see the video of the casino. Hopefully they are looking at it and seeing where they could make improvements. There are places in the casinos where there are no tables, just slots. We were at the starboard end of the casino..where stuff slid. We had to step over a lot of debris to get out.

 

I'm not asking them to change the world here, just hoping that Princess is using this footage for future enhancements for safety at sea. Use it as an example for improving safety. There is room for improvement here. I consider myself a "reliable" source. It happened right in front of me and my husband. Sober and all.

 

By the way, many of the gaming tables where I was were not in the same place once the tilt was corrected, and they squashed an older woman and an older man. The man was out cold, his dentures were lying next to him, and my husband prevented one of those huge oak barrels from rolling into him. The woman was pinned from her waste down and moaning with pain.

 

Wish I were in my room taking a nap when it happened. I wouldn't have had to have witnessed the chaos/blood/cries/lost folks first hand in the common areas that we did. Improvement for safety needs to be done.

 

Our room looked like it was shooken up, but I picked it up within 10 minutes. Everything fell off shelves and doors, tables were toppled over, but other than that...no biggie. TV stayed put.

[Princess Chatterer]

What message number in this thread had the link to the pictures?

[Merion_Mom]

What message number in this thread had the link to the pictures?

Post #507:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I only had very postive things to say about Princess. Of course the media likes to make the worst of everything.. here is a clip from tv of us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltbyPPmBRmU

and newsday is here..

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...,4018519.story

and my photographs are here

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...,6495518.flash

 

-Laura aka autumrhythm