Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[harbormaster]

We Currently Are On The Rotterdam's Black Sea And Egypt Cruise. We Left Athens Yesterday For A 12-day Cruise.

Last Evening, We Tried To Go To The Crow's Nest To Watch The Sailaway And It Was "closed For A Private Function." Ok.

We Tried To Go To The Crow's Nest Today For The Sailing Through The Dardanelles - It Was "closed For A Private Function."

A Number Of Other Passengers Also Tried To Go And Were Turned Away, Although No One Was In The Crow's Nest.

We Asked A Ship's Officer And Were Told That Parkwest Had "rented The Space" For The Entire Cruise For It's Employees (there Are A Few On This Cruise) And That We Would Be Denied Access To The Crow's Nest For The Entire Sailing.

We Expressed Our Feelings That, As Suite Passengers, (or Any Passengers For That Matter) We Also Had "rented The Space." We Were Told That It Was Not Possible To Use It, Except Perhaps Very Late After 10 Pm.

While This Will Not Ruin Our Cruise - We Intend To Have A Fabulous Time In Ports, , To Us While On The Ship, The Crow's Nest Is The Premier Lounge On The Ship For Viewing And As Passengers, We Really Value The Space. Quite A Number Of Other Passengers Have Also Expressed Their Disappointment. Some Have Said They Will Boycott Parkwest Due To This. (we Don't Ever Do The Auctions, So That's Moot To Us).

We're Simply Disappointed That Another, Less Premier Space Could Not Have Been Found For Them.

[Krazy Kruizers]

That is awful!!!

But I know you won't let not being able to use the Crow's Nest ruin your cruise.

[Bramcruiser]

You've worded your disappointment well. Its refreshing to see that its not as dramatic as some people tend to write. I do agree with your disappointment though and sympathize.

 

I can see a corporate entity booking the Crow's Nest or some other premiere spot for one night for a function but hogging it for the entire cruise is somewhat unfair to everyone else "who has to put up with it". The best one can do is simply write their disappointment on the cruise review cards. If every single card handed in at the end of the voyage says the same thing then its the only way they'll get the message. Unfortunately, its after the fact, and not likely to change HAL's or any line's way of doing business in the future.

 

In the end money speaks and if some entity has big enough pockets then they will always get their way. Its just too bad the Crow's Nest - which is a public room - just didn't get a chance to be enjoyed by the public. Its one of the nicest spots to be in on a HAL ship.

 

David

[Canne12]

In the blue folder in the cabin (front pocket with the stationary) there are comment cards that can be completed during the cruise (so you don't have to wait until the end)

 

I'm sure others OTB will have more ideas for you- Our group had an event in the Crows Nest (sign posted at one door that it was reserved for a private party) but no one was kept out (there was no sign at the other door)

 

so- Our drinks and appetizers were shared with all!

[harbormaster]

Thanks for the comments. We already have filled in the comment card from the blue folder.

Unfortunately, there are stantions across both doors into the Crow's Nest. We peeked in (actually walked in) - no one was in there but we were asked to leave by a crew member.

The ship, on the other hand, is lovely and does not appear full. So far the rest of the service has been excellent and food wonderful.

Istanbul tomorrow, if not the Crow's Nest!

[LEtue]

Isn't there something that all of us can do? I have read more than on post about this type of situation and frankly I find it unacceptable. For one function - okay....but the entire cruise! No way. I'm about to take my first HAL cruise and this is very disappointing :(

 

Is there an email or snail mail address when we can express our concerns? It effects all of us to some extent if we don't speak up.

 

If anyone has a contact please post it for us. I'm going to research for one.

 

Thanks for your post and I hope you have a great time in Istambul :D

[DFD1]

People talk about changes in cruising with HAL. This is a prime example.

 

In my opinion, it's this sort of thing that will unlimately do serious damage to HAL's reputation as the cruise line of choice for so many experienced travelers if it is not gotten under control.

 

The OP is right, he rented the Crow's Nest for his and other paying passengers' use when he purchased his cruise. For HAL to disregard his interests so completely (for the entire cruise) is simply not right.

 

Personally, I hope that many passengers call this to HAL's attention; so many in fact that it will not happen again.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I hope OP finds out how many people are in that group - concierges can give out that information.

 

[sab490]

This happened to us on Noordam last December, but it was for Park West "big spenders". The Crow's Nest is a favorite spot for sailaway leaving the big apple and it was not available then or anytime during the cruise except late evening. It wasn't a cruise buster, but it was very annoying.

 

Let's face it folks. Money talks. I'm sure HAL charges them a pretty penny for the privelege and as long as they are willing to pay, HAL (or any line for that matter) will accomodate them.

 

- Steve

[Copper10-8]

Let's face it folks. Money talks. I'm sure HAL charges them a pretty penny for the privelege and as long as they are willing to pay, HAL (or any line for that matter) will accomodate them.

 

Disappointing but Sab490/Steve called it! Unfortunately the same thing as any group taking over (and paying for) a public space on the ship:(

Looking forward to a review when/if you have the chance (especially Egypt). Doing this same itinerary on Rotterdam in September.

[senator6]

We had a similar experiance on the Oosterdam last December. I know how frustrating it is to have the Crows Nest off limits. We did write Seattle when we got home and received shipboard credit for our next cruise. They told us in the letter that we in the future we could find out about groups on board through shipboard services.

[mamaofami]

We had a similar experiance on the Oosterdam last December. I know how frustrating it is to have the Crows Nest off limits. We did write Seattle when we got home and received shipboard credit for our next cruise. They told us in the letter that we in the future we could find out about groups on board through shipboard services.

 

 

If I've planned a cruise and found out before hand that the Crow's Nest was off limits, I don't know if that alone would make me cancel my plans, but I would be disappointed as that is one of the places I love to hang out.

 

If you plan a HAL cruise, you do expect to have full use of all the facilities most of the time. Money does talk, but this kind of policy happening too often can have a negative effect for HAL after a while.

[Frick_&_Frack]

We had a similar experiance on the Oosterdam last December. I know how frustrating it is to have the Crows Nest off limits. We did write Seattle when we got home and received shipboard credit for our next cruise. They told us in the letter that we in the future we could find out about groups on board through shipboard services.

 

Senator6 - I wouldn't put a *whole* lot of stock in finding out about groups on board the vessel in advance since many cruise lines are becoming concerned with potentially negative publicity or having "issues" on board with persons booking that have problems with the groups. Sad, but true. They *may* give information if the group is "sponsored" by HAL (like the jazz cruise, polka cruise, etc.)

 

I know I did inquire on NCL, Carnival and now HAL and was advised that they cannot provide any information other than if the ship is having a cruise-line sponsored "theme". Though, a few planners I know did tell me that web searches may yield more information ;)

 

(There are many threads on the Princess and RCCL boards concerning this same topic actually.)

[TedC]

Not being able to use a prime space on your ENTIRE cruise is unacceptable.

 

But it coud have been worse! Suppose HAL also rented out the dining rooms and Lido.

 

I guess I could live on burgers and pizza for a few days - but an entire cruise?

[Pete Jackson]

Not being able to use a prime space on your ENTIRE cruise is unacceptable.

 

But it coud have been worse! Suppose HAL also rented out the dining rooms and Lido.

 

I guess I could live on burgers and pizza for a few days - but an entire cruise?

 

Indeed, HAL has done just that, rent out the entire dining room that is! An earlier thread had a complaint that one entire DR seating had been booked by a large group, so everybody else had to use the other seating:( (I forget which seating). Of course, this was just for one seating, not for the entire cruise.

[jhannah]

:( Well I'm flabbergasted! Having any public area of the ship off limits to most passengers for the entire cruise for this reason is totally unacceptable. I agree that for a few occasions it's fine. But not for the whole cruise. Finding the lounge empty just adds insult to injury. HAL promotes the Crow's Nest on their website as "inviting observation lounge by day, dazzling nightclub by night." It should be available to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME with only rare exception.

[MHS4]

As suggested in the topic "theme cruises" I googled Charter Cruises Westerdam and came up with the following: Nov 11-18, 2007 & Jan 20-27, 2008 are both Jazz theme groups -- they are apparently taking over all the lounge areas for some portion of the cruises so on any given day/evening you as a non-group passenger will be unable to use at least one "public" area.

 

If anyone discovers that a group has booked for the Westerdam in Oct 2007, would you please share that info? At least knowing in advance would temper some of the disappointment.

 

By the way, having as yet no brand loyality to HAL, receiving credit for future cruise is simply an empty, worthless gesture IMHO.

[fcorey]

This happened to us on Noordam last December, but it was for Park West "big spenders". The Crow's Nest is a favorite spot for sailaway leaving the big apple and it was not available then or anytime during the cruise except late evening. It wasn't a cruise buster, but it was very annoying.

 

Let's face it folks. Money talks. I'm sure HAL charges them a pretty penny for the privelege and as long as they are willing to pay, HAL (or any line for that matter) will accomodate them.

 

- Steve

 

While that may be true, the complete disregard for the other passengers will bite them eventually. You cannot treat customers/passengers that way and expect them to just accept it. They will vote with their wallets/pocketbooks to go elsewhere. Like many others I spend a considerable amount of time researching if there is a group aboard specifically for this stupid reason. It being Park West adds insult to injury in my opinion :p There are smaller function rooms aboard that can be rented, however taking over a primary venue does impact other passengers. I dont care how much you are paying for your fare, when they promote a cruise they never say "....you'll have access to all the ship except rooms we rent out to groups" so when they sell a fare on a group cruise and dont tell you, or pull a stunt like this, its not only bad business, its false advertizing as their brochures are showing parts of the ship you wont get to use or enjoy. Obviously legal action is not worth it, and an exercise in futility, but generally this leaves a bad taste in the passengers mouth and I would think it would make them more likely to consider another line when crusing again. Which is too bad because I think most people here genuinely like HAL as a cruiseline and want to see them do well.

[cruisinbulldog]

Unfortunately the same thing as any group taking over (and paying for) a public space on the ship:(

 

 

Understand... But to me HA is charging twice for this space.. I'm sure when pax started booking this cruise they were not told or given a discounted rate for the unavailable Crows Nest..

 

Understand there will be groups on cruises, but to take away prime real estate for the entire cruise..:(

 

Bulldog

[hammybee]

As suggested in the topic "theme cruises" I googled Charter Cruises Westerdam and came up with the following: Nov 11-18, 2007 & Jan 20-27, 2008 are both Jazz theme groups -- they are apparently taking over all the lounge areas for some portion of the cruises so on any given day/evening you as a non-group passenger will be unable to use at least one "public" area.

 

The Nov 11 and January 20 sailings are charters and HAL is not selling space to the public on these sails. It appears that the Westerdam is available for only two public sails in November ( 11/8 and 11/25) and only one public sailing in January, 2008 ( 1/16). In effect, they are sold out unless a pax desires to buy space from the reseller and enjoys the theme of the cruise.

 

HAL, or any cruise line, for that matter, transfers the cost and risk associated with filling all cabins to the companies who charter the sail. Most bring aboard their own entertainment which means HAL also does not incur this cost. In exchange for reducing a cruise line's risk and cost, it can sell-out a cruise at a substantial discount which enables the companies who chartered to mark up the price, plus the cost of the theme and make a profit. It's a win-win for everyone and certainly does nto intrude on the general public.

[arzz]

HAL, what are you thinking?

 

I, too, find this unacceptable -- if, in fact, the Crow's Nest was unavailable for the whole cruise and if, in fact, the previous posters from other cruises that have posted similar experiences are true (and I have no reason to suspect that they are not true).

 

It is one thing to rent a space for a single event -- this happens and though it might present a localized inconvenience -- it isn't going to ruin anyone's cruise.

 

That said, however, the Crow's Nest is a premium lounge on board any of the HAL ships -- it is unique in that it is not just a lounge but offers an unmatched view from its high vantage point and its spectacular windows. There is no place else on the ship that offers a substitute for the perks of the Crow's Nest. As such, if the loss of this space for a whole cruise (or even a substantial portion of one's cruise) is possible then such should be shared by HAL in its brochures and literature -- or alternately passenger's booking a cruise with this limitation should be informed in advance and given a chance to change cruise dates or negotiate some sort of settlement. I am sure that the devilish details of the "cruise contract" allow HAL to do whatever they want here ... but that still does not make this practice right or change the ultimate effect that this practice, if it proliferates, will have on the PR and attractiveness of this cruise line.

 

Is it possible that the dollars gained through such "special treatment" for Park West's "high rollers" is more significant than the long term dollars collected by the rest of us over time? I have heard that the art auctions are the biggest revenue producer that the cruise lines currently have -- but if this abuse of the cruise experience for other cruisers continues will HAL still be dollars ahead if the rest of us were to start to turn elsewhere for our cruising experience? Can the Park West high rollers fill a ship?

[Golfette]

I am aghast that a venue (Crow's Nest) that has been discussed so fondly (and so often) on this Board and advertised as an amenity of HAL by HAL can be closed for an entire cruise to passengers without prior notification to passengers. When we were on Princess with a group, the group "rented" one of the favorite bars for a reception, but passengers were also admitted. We just had a portion of the space.

 

When you book a hotel, IF you ask, they will tell you whether a restaurant is open or "off limits" etc. Apparently cruise lines operate free of any restraints in what they advertise and what they actually do provide. Offering a credit on a future cruise, as someone else noted, is worthless to someone not necessarily a "fan" of that particular line.

 

I've been monitoring HAL & Celebrity boards for about 6 months or so & initially was sold on HAL, but the last few months' postings have me losing interest.

[Orcrone]

I am aghast that a venue (Crow's Nest) that has been discussed so fondly (and so often) on this Board and advertised as an amenity of HAL by HAL can be closed for an entire cruise to passengers without prior notification to passengers. When we were on Princess with a group, the group "rented" one of the favorite bars for a reception, but passengers were also admitted. We just had a portion of the space.

 

When you book a hotel, IF you ask, they will tell you whether a restaurant is open or "off limits" etc. Apparently cruise lines operate free of any restraints in what they advertise and what they actually do provide. Offering a credit on a future cruise, as someone else noted, is worthless to someone not necessarily a "fan" of that particular line.

 

I've been monitoring HAL & Celebrity boards for about 6 months or so & initially was sold on HAL, but the last few months' postings have me losing interest.

Unfortunately, that's the only thing that will keep HAL (or any other cruise line) from doing this. Only when the lost revenue of individual passengers offsets the increased revenue from groups will they change their policy.

[hammybee]

Resort hotels have dedicated prime space to group bookings for a long, long time. Marriotts, Hyatts, 4 Seasons do this all the time. Pools, prime beach space, entire golf courses, tennis courts, restaurants and meeting rooms become off limits for the public guest so that the hotel can dedicate it to the group's exclusive usage.

 

A few resorts make it clear (in the fine print) that from, time to time, otherwise public areas of the resort may be dedicated to the use by a group. Guests and pax are unaware at the time of booking. Instead, once guests arrive, their first clue is often within the resort's on-line schedule of events/activities, if a guest happens to be curious enough to view this information.

 

It seems to me that ALL cruise lines woke up and realized that large group bookings are a lucrative business and like hotels, will dedicate otherwise public space, to the exclusive use of the large group.

 

Cruise lines, like hotels, have a long way to go to achieve a better balance between their own interests and that of non-group paying guests/pax.

 

At a minimum, once a pax boards they should be informed which spaces have been reserved for a private function and its duration. The more a pax knows upfront, the more likely their own expectations will be managed. At such time that the balance between public and private enjoyment tips in favor of the private function, OBC should be automatically granted.

 

Instead, as most of us know, the folk onboard do not have the authority to make it right. The onus is on the pax to contact the cruise line, post cruise, and make it an issue. Of course, the cruise line, any cruise line, knows that most pax will not persist and therefore the " giveback" will not be as much as it might have otherwise been, had the cruise line, handled this upfront.

 

As I said, resorts hotels and cruise lines have a long way to go to achieve a better balance between group and non group pax.

[hammybee]

People talk about changes in cruising with HAL. This is a prime example.

 

This might be a more accurate reflection of the current state of cruising if it said " "changes in cruising, in general". All cruise lines, like major hotels, compete for large group bookings, as they do with individual pax/guest bookings. The larger the group, the more pull they have to obtain special treatment. There are so many cabins to fill, week after week, the only way a cruise line can fill the cabins is with special interest group bookings- no different than resort hotels.

 

There is no escaping this. All cruise lines covet the lucrative group booking. That someone sailed X, Princess, Crystal or HAL and did not experience a large group, simply means they happened upon a sailing without one. The previous or next sail might be a different story.

 

Groups take out options on cabins/hotel rooms. When booking a large group sail, the upfront pax deposits are often greater than non group sails and the cancellation policies are ususally more restrictive.

 

7 day sails on Vista Class ships are more prone to group bookings than longer sails and/ or older ships. Shoulder and off season cruising also seems to be a higher risk for group cruises- those seasons not prone to family cruising vacations.