Is there a big difference between Business Class and Premium Economy?

OzkiwiJJ, examples, please, for "budget international business". Non lie flat, I assume? Airlines that do this?

OzkiwiJJ, examples, please, for "budget international business". Non lie flat, I assume? Airlines that do this?

Air Tahiti Nui. Air France. That's to start.

I don't think you'll get premium economy on this routing. If you look at the current list of destinations from Barcelona, the only airlines flying non-stop between Barcelona and east coast USA are AA (MIA, JFK), DL (JFK, ATL), UA (EWR) and US (PHL, CLT). AFAIK, none of these airlines have true premium economy.

 

It also follows that, on that routing, these are the only airlines whose business class products would be available.

The OP did say that while they'd prefer nonstop over the pond, they'd be willing to allow one connection, in which case they could book AF and get premium economy, with a connection at CDG.

You missed one, waterbug123

Thank you, I'm not familiar with "budget international business."

OzkiwiJJ, examples, please, for "budget international business".

Air Tahiti Nui. Air France. That's to start.

An airline wouldn't have both international business and "budget" international business on the same plane, would they? I've never seen that term listed by an airline, so I assume we are just talking about distinctions between different aircraft??? i.e. an aircraft that doesn't have full lie-flat seats in business would be called, by passengers though not the airline itself, "budget" internat'l business? Or do I misunderstand?

OzkiwiJJ, examples, please, for "budget international business". Non lie flat, I assume? Airlines that do this?

Jetstar - a subsidiary of Qantas.

Not lie flat seats. Essentially the old style business class seats before they invented the lie flat style. Basic amenities but reasonably good food and wine service.

Jetstar International operates from Australia to various Asia/Pacific destinations.

An airline wouldn't have both international business and "budget" international business on the same plane, would they? I've never seen that term listed by an airline, so I assume we are just talking about distinctions between different aircraft??? i.e. an aircraft that doesn't have full lie-flat seats in business would be called, by passengers though not the airline itself, "budget" internat'l business? Or do I misunderstand?

No, not the same airline but, for example, Qantas operates a full service international business class but the Qantas subsidiary, Jetstar, is a budget airline and their business class is a lower grade product - see post above.

Jetstar markets itself as a budget airline offering cheap domestic and international flights. They are great if you are flying during the daytime, not so good for an overnight flight.

The OP did say that while they'd prefer nonstop over the pond, they'd be willing to allow one connection, in which case they could book AF and get premium economy, with a connection at CDG.

 

 

 

Thank you, I'm not familiar with "budget international business."

AF Premium Economy is horrible! Add to that they will change the seats you booked a year out and fight with you about it. I wouldn't fly them again, period. Terrible, arrogant, liars. The PE seats are hard as rocks--the economy seats are more comfortable.

I believe Virgin has a PE product that is well regarded.

"Budget international business" can mean one of two things. First, it can be business class on airlines which offer a less-amenity seat (compared to major airline long-haul) sold as business class, e.g. Icelandair. (Nothing against them per se - it's comfortable enough, similar to domestic first class in narrow-body US airlines, or business class on most European short/mid-haul services, e.g. "Club Europe" on British Airways.)

The second can be "conventional" (e.g. lay-flat) international business class sold at discounted prices. As with economy, airlines offer several "fare classes" within the business class cabin, with prices varying according to the restrictions on the ticket - seasonality, advance purchase requirements, length of stay, etc. Often these are sold in specific "fare buckets" such as "I" fares ("Z" on some airlines) which are thousands of dollars less than seats sold on the same flight which have fewer restrictions. A business class fare sold in one of the latter classes (for example "D" or "J" class) can cost, say, $10,000 round trip, while an "I" seat next to it will have cost the occupant $3000.

On transatlantic routes, somewhat ironically, the cheapest "conventional" business class fares can often occur at the peak of tourist season, say June - August, because that's when demand for those seats from business travelers falls off. And for that matter, it's often possible to obtain mileage redemption seats more easily during the summer than the rest of the year, for the same reason. (This is opposite to the case with award seats in coach, which are easier in the winter than in the summer.) The only catch with business class redemption is that the airlines don't make them available for booking until quite close to flight date, e.g. a week out. They want to sell those seats to last-minute business travelers (for big bucks) if possible, and will only release them into award inventory once the computers tell them it ain't happening. It's a game of chicken that doesn't suit most cruise passengers - who will overspend, it seems, in order to have things settled 10 or 11 months out (don't get me started) but it works for those who have great flexibility.

The OP did say that while they'd prefer nonstop over the pond, they'd be willing to allow one connection, in which case they could book AF and get premium economy, with a connection at CDG.

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You can also us BA via LHR and get Premium Econ. (for the USA to London part anyway...the LHR-BCN leg is regular econ. albeit full fare)

I don't think you'll get premium economy on this routing. If you look at the current list of destinations from Barcelona, the only airlines flying non-stop between Barcelona and east coast USA are AA (MIA, JFK), DL (JFK, ATL), UA (EWR) and US (PHL, CLT). AFAIK, none of these airlines have true premium economy.

 

It also follows that, on that routing, these are the only airlines whose business class products would be available.

This is great information! Thanks for your input.

Given that it sounds like you're planning for a cruise in September 2015, what I'd do is - in the meantime - learn how to navigate around the "gold standard" for airfare search engines, ITA. http://matrix.itasoftware.com/search.htm

 

Try out different departure cities, times, airlines, and economy/premium economy/business class options, so (a) you get a sense of the actual costs, and (b) can see how changing one element of the trip or another translates into dollars.

 

By the time the booking windows open for September 2015 travel (around October 2014) you'll be an old hand at this weird hobby.

Thanks for the link. I think it will prove to be very useful and informative. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and the link.

You can also us BA via LHR and get Premium Econ. (for the USA to London part anyway...the LHR-BCN leg is regular econ. albeit full fare)

Good suggestion. Thanks

OzkiwiJJ, examples, please, for "budget international business". Non lie flat, I assume? Airlines that do this?

Jetstar - a subsidiary of Qantas.

 

Not lie flat seats. Essentially the old style business class seats before they invented the lie flat style. Basic amenities but reasonably good food and wine service.

You can also us BA via LHR and get Premium Econ. (for the USA to London part anyway...the LHR-BCN leg is regular econ. albeit full fare)

Unless you're getting some super fare for flying BA WTP or AF Premium Voyager (Lufthansa is also launching it although I believe Chicago - Frankfurt is the first US route), I would just take a non-stop in regular economy to BCN.

There's no point in spending an additional 2 - 4 hours on a plane to get a slightly more comfortable seat. Get there sooner and go sleep in a real bed.

Although Jetstar's "business class" is only a little bit better than mainline premium economy products.

Just a tad. The seats are wider and further apart than Qantas A380 premium economy. The amenities are cheap and nasty - you can almost see through the eyeshade. The food and service, however, was excellent, much better than premium economy.

I've done four flights in Jetstar business class and are more than happy with them for a short daytime flight (ie Sydney to Singapore), but prefer regular business class with a lie flat seat for overnight flights or very long distance flights.

My friend booked UA Honolulu on FF miles. He checked pricing at booking. $89. Several months later it was $119. So it does change.

I've done four flights in Jetstar business class and are more than happy with them for a short daytime flight (ie Sydney to Singapore), but prefer regular business class with a lie flat seat for overnight flights or very long distance flights.

Interesting how residence changes views of distance. SYD-SIN is roughly the same distance as ORD-LHR. I can think of few Americans that would take that to be a "short" flight.

Anything under 10 hours is a short international flight to us folk downunder :D

SYD-LHR is typically 24 hours or more with a minimum of one stop.

Anything under 10 hours is a short international flight to us folk downunder :D

 

 

 

SYD-LHR is typically 24 hours or more with a minimum of one stop.

I knew I was doing too many trips to Australia and Asia when I started calling 8 hour flights to Europe "too short".

*waits for someone to compare intra-European business class to economy product*

What difference? :D

Especially on smaller aircraft on shorter hops, the seats are the same. Most European legacy airlines have the business class curtain on a rail which they can move around depending on the amount of business passengers. Only a few seats sold? We'll hang the curtain up between row 2 and 3! More sold? Let's slide it over to row 8 today! You might get a sandwich and a glass of wine whereas the lowly folks get a bag of peanuts and a cup of coffee.

KLM is particularly good at doing all this, I have flown Business quite a few times intra-Europe on KLM, but have seen it on Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian and BA as well. Some carriers do not even bother to hang up a curtain or distinguish between passengers on some flights. The Y (full fare economy) in your ticket is a dead giveaway. You pay a premium price, but get the same product.