Carnival Announces Construction of 180,000 Ton Ships

This is what I thought as well... and I do hope so.

For some reason, this just looks ugly to me. Almost looks like they tried copying Oasis class ships from the big boxy exterior to the insane number of decks with cabins.

Edit: oops wrong quote. Meant to quote the 2 pics of the Costa ship.

Carnival Corp has developed this new class of 180,000grt ships powered by LNG to be used across multiple brands. Expect the ships to be virtually identical externally other than their funnels, but with different interior decor suited to each brand. Here's the breakdown of where these ships, and other upcoming newbuilds, will be going.

New LNG-class 180,000grt

Costa 2019 (Meyer Turku)

Aida 2019 (Meyer Werft)

Carnival 2020 (Meyer Turku)

P&O 2020 (Meyer Weft)

Costa 2021 (Meyer Turku)

Aida 2021 (Meyer Weft)

Carnival 2022 (Meyer Turku)

Vista-class 135,000grt

Carnival 2018 (Fincantieri)

Costa-China 2019 (Fincantieri)

P&O Australia 2020 (Fincantieri)

Costa-China 2020 (Fincantieri)

Royal-class 143,000grt

Princess 2017 (Fincantieri)

Princess 2019 (Fincantieri)

Princess 2020 (Fincantieri)

Huge ships! I'm hoping when the new large ships come into service, they will move an older Spirit class ship permanently to Tampa for 7-8 day cruises. That's my wish....

Huge ships! I'm hoping when the new large ships come into service, they will move an older Spirit class ship permanently to Tampa for 7-8 day cruises. That's my wish....

Spirit class ships are IMO....the perfect size ship!:)

The passenger ratio seems equal to the Quantum class on RCCL. The Quantum class has a capacity of 4,900 & their tonnage is 169,000. Though I'm always in favor of more open spaces and less passengers.

Not exactly.

Space ratios are always based on double occupancy.

The Quantum class has a very respectable space ratio of 40.35 based on a gt of 168,666 and double occupancy of 4180 pax.

These new LNG powered ships will have a space ratio of 34.61 based on a gt of 180,000 and double occupancy of 5200 pax. They will be very high density ships, especially when you think of how much interior space the LNG tanks and support system will take up.

The space ratio of these new ships will be similar to that of CARNIVAL BREEZE, which personally I think feels quite crowded.

It's funny to see Carnival fans supporting these ships, when many said they would never sail on the Oasis Class because it carries too many people. With a space ratio of 41.71 I'm guessing the Oasis Class will feel much more spacious compared to these new Carnival ships. Plus the Oasis Class are designed extremely well and with the shoreside infrastructure to support all the pax.

Carnival of late seems to have more of a "pack them in" mentality, but I suppose this is necessary if you want to be the value price leader. You can't have it all.

All the dead air space on Royal doesn't impress me, but I guess some passengers need it to keep their noses from scraping on the ceiling.

All the dead air space on Royal doesn't impress me, but I guess some passengers need it to keep their noses from scraping on the ceiling.

Having a central park and a boardwalk... just awful.... riiiight.

All the dead air space on Royal doesn't impress me, but I guess some passengers need it to keep their noses from scraping on the ceiling.

The dead space from huge LNG tanks doesn't impress me either.

Having a central park and a boardwalk... just awful.... riiiight.

Yup. I would much rather have that space filled with more inside cabins. More people in less space. Awesome!

All the dead air space on Royal doesn't impress me, but I guess some passengers need it to keep their noses from scraping on the ceiling.

Feelings of inadequacy?

Always the royal chip on the shoulder mentality.

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Not even a rendering yet and the bashing begins

Sent from my iPhone

Not even a rendering yet and the bashing begins

 

 

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Not from me. Shocked? I've been following the Viking Grace every since it floated out.

Not from me. Shocked? I've been following the Viking Grace every since it floated out.

I have as well. Interesting ship and her tanks are on exterior decks. They won't be on these new Carnival Corp newbuilds.

Considering there is little to no infrastructure support for LNG in North America, it will be interesting to see where the CCL newbuilds are deployed.

Refueling is a skilled process. Let's hope they get it right. Some ports may even have restrictions on LNG fueled vessels but not sure about that.

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Not from me. Shocked? I've been following the Viking Grace every since it floated out.

Lol, your post snuck in before I posted.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think with 5+ years until these debut on CCL, they would have time to figure the logistics out of using LNG.

The Central Park and Boardwalk areas, being open space, are not included in gross tonnage, so eliminating them does nothing to the comparison of the two classes of ships.

 

 

 

Along with this will come the challenges of squeezing the LNG infrastructure into the hull. LNG requires 6 times the volume for the same energy as residual fuel oil, so tankage either increases, or they fuel more often. Also, the LNG tanks cannot be on the bottom or sides of the hull like fuel oil tanks, they must be in the central 60% of the hull (side to side), which is prime space in the engine rooms. You also have to add the required void spaces around the tanks, and the re-liquifaction equipment to keep from boiling off too much LNG, and you've got a real Tetris problem going.

Interesting information. I have some technical knowledge on the requirements of CNG, but know it has some significant differences from LNG. I can't comment on how it works on ships, but I do know that on OTR and in some cases off-road vehicles in the US, there are various space consuming components to minimize emissions (DPF, etc) that are eliminated on CNG powered vehicles. Would there be something similar in space savings for LNG powered engines over diesel/fuel oil?

I look forward to reading more of your commentary and learning as this moves forward.

Having a central park and a boardwalk... just awful.... riiiight.

I'm sure all the pigeons and homeless don't think so. :p

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think with 5+ years until these debut on CCL, they would have time to figure the logistics out of using LNG.

Its not so much figuring it out, its paying for it. Do you build the ships and hope the infrastructure comes along, or do you build the infrastructure and hope the ships come to you.

Interesting information. I have some technical knowledge on the requirements of CNG, but know it has some significant differences from LNG. I can't comment on how it works on ships, but I do know that on OTR and in some cases off-road vehicles in the US, there are various space consuming components to minimize emissions (DPF, etc) that are eliminated on CNG powered vehicles. Would there be something similar in space savings for LNG powered engines over diesel/fuel oil?

 

I look forward to reading more of your commentary and learning as this moves forward.

There will be some space saving from not installing scrubbers, and the fuel treatment system for residual fuel (heaters, pumps, centrifuges, filters) will not be needed, but these are fairly small spaces compared with the needs of LNG. Fuel tanks are just that, a steel tank. Pipes and valves coming to/from the tanks are located in the engine rooms. For LNG tanks, you have to have a "tank room" or void space around each tank where the valves (possible sources of gas leakage) are located, and the tank rooms must have separate ventilation and gas detection systems. The re-liquifaction plant will take up at least as much space as the fuel treatment system.

Its not so much figuring it out, its paying for it. Do you build the ships and hope the infrastructure comes along, or do you build the infrastructure and hope the ships come to you.

I'm surprised they are going with LNG over CNG. A fast fuel station that could turn around a ship in under six hours would cost a few million to build (cheap, all things relevant) and has a small footprint if there are pipelines in the area. There are or will be at most major US Ports within the next decade. Is it a maritime law thing, or am I missing something else?

There will be some space saving from not installing scrubbers, and the fuel treatment system for residual fuel (heaters, pumps, centrifuges, filters) will not be needed, but these are fairly small spaces compared with the needs of LNG. Fuel tanks are just that, a steel tank. Pipes and valves coming to/from the tanks are located in the engine rooms. For LNG tanks, you have to have a "tank room" or void space around each tank where the valves (possible sources of gas leakage) are located, and the tank rooms must have separate ventilation and gas detection systems. The re-liquifaction plant will take up at least as much space as the fuel treatment system.

Interesting. I am aware of the requirement of a "sniffer system" with independent auto ventilation systems on land for CNG, it would only make sense they are also required at sea for LNG. Do the tanks need to be on the same level as the engines, or can they hypothetically be located above or below? Again, thank you for your comments.

Interesting. I am aware of the requirement of a "sniffer system" with independent auto ventilation systems on land for CNG, it would only make sense they are also required at sea for LNG. Do the tanks need to be on the same level as the engines, or can they hypothetically be located above or below? Again, thank you for your comments.

Hypothetically, they could be below, but that would mean the relatively light gas storage tanks are below the very heavy engines, which is contrary to good naval architecture from a stability standpoint. Yes, they can be above, but that then carves into crew accommodations and back of house areas, which would then push passenger areas upwards. I'm also not sure (haven't studied the class rules for LNG completely) what kind of buffer space is required between the tanks and passenger areas. There are some Scandinavian ferries that use LNG, and they have exterior tanks on deck, but they are outside of passenger areas, and I don't see a cruise ship giving up valuable revenue real estate to put LNG tanks up above.

Carnival Corp has developed this new class of 180,000grt ships powered by LNG to be used across multiple brands. Expect the ships to be virtually identical externally other than their funnels, but with different interior decor suited to each brand. Here's the breakdown of where these ships, and other upcoming newbuilds, will be going.

 

New LNG-class 180,000grt

Costa 2019 (Meyer Turku)

Aida 2019 (Meyer Werft)

Carnival 2020 (Meyer Turku)

P&O 2020 (Meyer Weft)

Costa 2021 (Meyer Turku)

Aida 2021 (Meyer Weft)

Carnival 2022 (Meyer Turku)

 

Vista-class 135,000grt

Carnival 2018 (Fincantieri)

Costa-China 2019 (Fincantieri)

P&O Australia 2020 (Fincantieri)

Costa-China 2020 (Fincantieri)

 

Royal-class 143,000grt

Princess 2017 (Fincantieri)

Princess 2019 (Fincantieri)

Princess 2020 (Fincantieri)

Pretty aggressive expansion plan, or some older ships are going to be retired or sold.

Will be interesting what competive pressures this will put on RCL to respond too.

Not exactly.

 

Space ratios are always based on double occupancy.

 

The Quantum class has a very respectable space ratio of 40.35 based on a gt of 168,666 and double occupancy of 4180 pax.

 

These new LNG powered ships will have a space ratio of 34.61 based on a gt of 180,000 and double occupancy of 5200 pax. They will be very high density ships, especially when you think of how much interior space the LNG tanks and support system will take up.

 

The space ratio of these new ships will be similar to that of CARNIVAL BREEZE, which personally I think feels quite crowded.

 

It's funny to see Carnival fans supporting these ships, when many said they would never sail on the Oasis Class because it carries too many people. With a space ratio of 41.71 I'm guessing the Oasis Class will feel much more spacious compared to these new Carnival ships. Plus the Oasis Class are designed extremely well and with the shoreside infrastructure to support all the pax.

 

Carnival of late seems to have more of a "pack them in" mentality, but I suppose this is necessary if you want to be the value price leader. You can't have it all.

Carnival has been stating they have found a "revolutionary" new way of packaging, so we will see.