Notification FRom HAL re: dining on Westerdam 2/20

Just received this notice:

IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION:

We would like to advise you of a change to the open seating option offered in

the main dining room on board the ms Westerdam sailing on February 20, 2016.

Due to the number of guests requesting dining at 8:00pm, open seating will be

offered from 5:00pm to 6:30pm only. Should you wish to dine later,

complimentary dining will be available in the Lido after 6:30pm, or for a

nominal fee we invite you to make reservations at our Canaletto or Pinnacle

Grill Restaurants. We regret any disappointment this change may cause.

This is the sailing with the huge gospel group on board. They had already been allocated traditional late dining - to the exclusion of all other passengers. I always take late dining and now having the option to dine late in the dining room REALLY ticks me off. Has anyone else ever experienced this? Super not happy

Have never had this happen, but we've never sailed with a large group onboard...I would be very unhappy about this too. :(

Just received this notice:

 

IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION:

 

We would like to advise you of a change to the open seating option offered in

 

the main dining room on board the ms Westerdam sailing on February 20' date=' 2016.

 

Due to the number of guests requesting dining at 8:00pm, open seating will be

 

offered from 5:00pm to 6:30pm only. Should you wish to dine later,

 

complimentary dining will be available in the Lido after 6:30pm, or for a

 

nominal fee we invite you to make reservations at our Canaletto or Pinnacle

 

Grill Restaurants. We regret any disappointment this change may cause.

 

 

This is the sailing with the huge gospel group on board. They had already been allocated traditional late dining - to the exclusion of all other passengers. I always take late dining and now having the option to dine late in the dining room REALLY ticks me off. Has anyone else ever experienced this? Super not happy[/quote']

 

Understand your position. The cutoff at 630 PM was imposed to allow an hour and a half for dining and clearing the room for the 8 PM seating. This implies that the gospel group is taking over all the late dining. If Holland were to allow you to dine later, then you would most likely be seated at a table surrounded by the members of this group. Which would you prefer, dining with the group or the other alternatives?

 

Yeah, I know Holland could restrict the group but you know that isn't going to happen.

This happened to us once on the Eurodam in 2013 for the same Gospel group. Unfortunately, we were not advised, as you have been, and were only made aware of the situation once onboard. The Maitre d's desk on embarkation was total chaos with many angry passengers waiting in line only to be told there was nothing the ship could do about a Seattle decision!

We immediately went to the Guest Services Manager's office and asked for a meeting. The lady was quite nice but kept repeating the same mantra: "I completely understand how you feel but I can't do anything" to which I kept replying my own mantra: "Unless this has happened to you before as a cruise passenger, you have absolutely no idea how I feel!". Our boarding pass clearly showed confirmed for Main Dining. The fact we were 4-star Mariners and occupying a Neptune Suite may have helped (not that I think it should have) but the final resolution was to "comp" us in the Pinnacle Grill for the first 3 nights and then allocate us a table for 2 in Open Seating at the same time as Main Dining for the rest of the cruise. I felt sorry for the Manager and complimented her in a letter to HAL Headquarters while at the same time criticizing them for creating this chaos.

At least, this time, they had the decency to inform you in advance.

That's so annoying. Am I missing something? Isn't dining in the lido always complimentary? Nice spin.

How many people need to be in a "group" to successfully commandeer a public facility for their exclusive use? Would such a group be allowed to take over one of the pools for their exclusive use of an afternoon - such as for a religious service? Or the Crow's Nest? What if such an affinity group needed to reach some shoreside location by an early specific time - would they be allowed to have exclusive use of the tenders until the whole group was ashore?

I guess the only way to avoid this situation is to confirm well before final payment if there will be a large group aboard. Surely HAL will know by then, won't they???

That really sucks, and I would be mighty upset too. But of course it's in the small print somewhere that they can change anything they like. And of course you are well after final payment so you can't switch to another cruise.

I feel sorry for you that this has happened.

We have been on cruises with groups but never had anything happen to our fixed dining time.

Understand your position. The cutoff at 630 PM was imposed to allow an hour and a half for dining and clearing the room for the 8 PM seating. This implies that the gospel group is taking over all the late dining. If Holland were to allow you to dine later, then you would most likely be seated at a table surrounded by the members of this group. Which would you prefer, dining with the group or the other alternatives?

 

Yeah, I know Holland could restrict the group but you know that isn't going to happen.

They've had late traditional tied up for a long time. They are now no longer allowing "as you wish" or anytime after 6:30. This is what has me upset. I would prefer to dine at time that suits me within the normal operational practices of the line. In discussions with HAL some time back, they promised there would be no infringement of or lack of access to public spaces of normal operations. They've clearly broken their word.

That's so annoying. Am I missing something? Isn't dining in the lido always complimentary? Nice spin.

I noticed that as well and just chalked it up to poor wording or (as you suggest) "spin." I am really struggling to understand how HAL could, just nine days before embarkation, restrict the MDR venue like this? The OP said they had already pretty much blocked off late traditional for this group (which apparently was previously communicated) and now - nine days out - they're also limiting the open seating? I understand the logistics that Rocketman outlined above but geez.... nine days?? :confused:

I noticed that as well and just chalked it up to poor wording or (as you suggest) "spin." I am really struggling to understand how HAL could, just nine days before embarkation, restrict the MDR venue like this? The OP said they had already pretty much blocked off late traditional for this group (which apparently was previously communicated) and now - nine days out - they're also limiting the open seating? I understand the logistics that Rocketman outlined above but geez.... nine days?? :confused:

I know there was another thread about this same situation and it seems to me the op had a satisfactory outcome. I tried to find it but I couldn't. It's not anyone that posted here. They likely sent to info late to try to curtail complaints. I would not be happy if that happened on my cruise. Luckily I tend to eat earlier so it wouldn't be so bad for me.

I just called HAL to question this and the person I talked to said she found it to be very unusual. I told her it just wasn't fair to the rest of the paying guests and she agreed. Not that it solves the problem...

Yea I would not be happy either, this goes to far for the impact of a group. In addition I find the reason to be dishonest. On many sailing a fixed time gets over booked and the overflow goes on a waiting list, they don't shutdown open dining.

I also called. I called the Onboard Services line referenced in the notification. The girl I spoke to was unapologetic and basically said it is what it is. I pointed out that this was a very clear breaking of the promise previously made and that wanted them to make it up to me. The inconvenience is worth a bottle of wine. I am going to have my agent pursue it further, probably starting with the group department that we spoke to a couple months ago - the ones who said nothing with this group would interfere with normal operations and that I wouldn't miss out or be unable to use public spaces, etc.

Very, very unhappy.

Just curious, do you know what gospel group this is?

I might want to check their schedule before I make my next reservation.

Just curious, do you know what gospel group this is?

I might want to check their schedule before I make my next reservation.

I believe it's this group:

Westerdam : 20 February 2016 - 27 February 2016 : Caribbean : Inspiration cruises : Sandi Patty & Friends

If you do a web search for Inspiration Cruises, you'll find their web site.

How many people need to be in a "group" to successfully commandeer a public facility for their exclusive use? Would such a group be allowed to take over one of the pools for their exclusive use of an afternoon - such as for a religious service? Or the Crow's Nest? What if such an affinity group needed to reach some shoreside location by an early specific time - would they be allowed to have exclusive use of the tenders until the whole group was ashore?

I'm really sorry this is being done by HAL to guests on their ships.

When you sail with a large group, that group Rules. Everything is provided as the group wants it and others lose use of venues and get what is left.

We once sailed with a very large group and to answer your question about them taking over the pool or Crows Nest, the answer is yes.

We were aboards 10 days and lost use of Crows Nest for just about the whole cruise. We literally were told by the group's coordinator there was a private party there every night of the cruise and we were not included. :eek:

We also lost use of the aft pool, on a beautiful Caribbean sea day and the group had a private pool party. We were a bit more than 'miffed' with the way we were so pushed aside.

Count on being denied use of one venue or another whenever it suits the large group.

 

I'm really sorry this is being done by HAL to guests on their ships.

When you sail with a large group, that group Rules. Everything is provided as the group wants it and others lose use of venues and get what is left.

 

We once sailed with a very large group and to answer your question about them taking over the pool or Crows Nest, the answer is yes.

 

We were aboards 10 days and lost use of Crows Nest for just about the whole cruise. We literally were told by the group's coordinator there was a private party there every night of the cruise and we were not included. :eek:

 

We also lost use of the aft pool, on a beautiful Caribbean sea day and the group had a private pool party. We were a bit more than 'miffed' with the way we were so pushed aside.

 

Count on being denied use of one venue or another whenever it suits the large group.

 

The more I think about this, the more annoyed I become (not annoyed at your response but at the OP's dilemma and the "live with it" attitude of the cruise line). I can understand HAL (or any cruise line) not necessarily wanting to advertise ahead of time that a very large group is on a particular sailing because it might hurt sales of non-group bookings on that sailing. On the other hand, it seems disingenuous of the cruise line to NOT inform anyone booking that a large group is planned and that access to ship venues may be restricted. By doing the latter, yes, you keep the big group happy but you really anger the other guests on that sailing by keeping them in the dark about the group or not really communicating the impact of that group's attendance on the ship. If the group is that large, perhaps the cruise line should steer them toward a smaller ship that they could charter instead of screwing up the vacations of their fellow passengers on a larger ship. Grr......:mad:

I guess the only way to avoid this situation is to confirm well before final payment if there will be a large group aboard. Surely HAL will know by then, won't they???

Not only HAL but most cruise lines do this. They make a lot of money on these groups.

Even if asked directly, they do not respond if there is a large group. This is information they keep to themselves full well knowing most of us who know better would not book the remaining cabins if we were told about the group.

How do we find out the size of these groups (Google?). I see that Mercy Me Inspiration group will be on my January 15 Koningsdam cruise and this post has me worried.

Some people have had success by googling name of ship, date of sailing and seeking groups on that cruise. Scroll through a few pages if more than one appears. It is not always top of the 'hits'.

I once found a group mentioned for a cruise we were booking. I called the group rather than the cruise line to inquire. They were delighted to tell me how large their group was and what activities they had planned. :D

Some people have had success by googling name of ship, date of sailing and seeking groups on that cruise. Scroll through a few pages if more than one appears. It is not always top of the 'hits'.

 

 

 

I once found a group mentioned for a cruise we were booking. I called the group rather than the cruise line to inquire. They were delighted to tell me how large their group was and what activities they had planned. :D

 

 

 

Thanks Sail, this helps a lot. :)

This is the sort of customer satisfaction issue that causes people to switch cruise lines. Their reservation for late seating was accepted even though the cruise line knew that it would not be an option.

It is called cheating the customer. No other words for it. Other cruise lines do it as well but this is certainly no excuse. Just one of the reasons why we shop hard for a cruise based on ship and never take one that we know has a large group booking.

I'm reminded of the first cruise I booked on Holland. About a month after booking, I heard it was a full charter by a jazz group. I confirmed that on the jazz groups website, full charter. I cancelled the cruise. Over a month after I confirmed the group charter, Holland was still advertising and selling cabins on that cruise.

I later learned that this is a common practice. A group will book a charter on a contingency basis. If they sell enough cabins, they go through with the charter. If not, then they let the charter lapse. Meanwhile, the cruise line will continue to book the cruise since it's possible that the group may cancel.

I certainly believe that a line should disclose the existence (I know they won't) whenever a group exceeds 20% of the ship. I believe the group should not be allowed to monopolize an area like the crows nest or the aft pool without significant compensation to the other guests. I believe if there is a contingent charter, guests should be informed when they ask about booking so they are not exposed to the risk of cancellation.