HAL considering going totally non-smoking?

[madelinerose]

MadelineRose,Yes. I can see that could be a big problem. That has never (yet) happened to us so I didn't know it could get that bad. Sure sounds like a miserable situation to have to endure.

 

 

It was not fun. It seemed that no matter what time we were in our cabin, they were there also. Our bed linens smelled of smoke. Thankfully, we had a great steward. ;)

[momofmeg]

and my partner does and I don't have lung cancer from second hand smoke. I used to go to bars where smoking was previlent and found my clothes reeking but I didn't get sick. I have never had the tobacco smell on my clothes on a ship and I spend time in the casino and w/partner in a smoking bar. As for long flights, you wouldn't want to be sitting near her after 3 hours. :eek: For the rant earlier, that person should be given a hiatus as I was a few weeks ago for being insulting on a smoking thread. I have had friends die from lung cancer, aids, heart conditions, breast cancer etc. but I don't demand others change their way of life because of my experience. We all have to live with loss. And we need to adjust to others and maybe they might adjust to us or is that asking too much? If the smoking is such a problem, there are other cruise lines who have policies that you want HAL to follow. Why not sail with them and take your money away from the Carnival Corp.?

 

That does not mean it will not happen to you in the future. My husband's aunt never thought she would ever get lung cancer. Besides, you have made the choice to breathe the second hand smoke, I have not made that choice.

 

All I think reasonable people here are asking, is that smoking not be allowed on balconies, because it invades their space. Suites come at a premium cost. Even veranda staterooms cost considerably more than an inside stateroom. Why is it unreasonable that a person who paid considerably more for the privilege of a veranda, would desire it to be smoke free?

 

Reasonable people are not gripping about one side of the lido for smokers or a cigar lounge for smokers.

 

I used to "poo- poo" the balcony gripers. I always said I could go in my stateroom for 10 minutes while my neighbor smoked his cigarette. In the past that worked. Unfortunately this last cruise, we had a chain smoker next door, and he was out there very often, he was not my usually considerate smoking neighbor who would take one smoke and then allow me to enjoy my balcony. No, he was out smoking all the time, it seemed. So I have now changed my opinion.

 

Well as one post said, we can show our displeasure with our pocket books. I did notice this last cruise was more smoky than my previous HAL cruises. I am afraid many formerly loyal Celebrity smokers have shown their displeasure with Celebrity policies, by defecting to HAL, which means that perhaps there is a higher percentage of HAL PAX that smoke than 17%.

 

I do know many of you are loyal HAL cruisers who do not want to do this. Only you can decide if you are displeasured enough to "send HAL a message." Yes it is unfair you should need to do this after years of loyalty, but that is what it may take for HAL to change their policy.

[madelinerose]

when did they have time to eat or sleep. They must have booked their cabin just to bother you. If HAL allows that kind of behavior I would certainly not sail with them again. Celebrity here I came.:rolleyes:

 

What??? Did my post sound like a whine? I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

 

I also mentioned that this was not on HAL!

[MadManOfBethesda]

I think it unreasonable and definitely not useful to tell people who have sailed HAL dozens and dozens of times they should simply move to another cruise line rather than attempt to have clean air to breathe on their veranda.

 

Yes, but during all of those dozens and dozens of cruises, HAL always allowed smoking on verandahs. Nothing has changed except for the whining about it.

 

It is analogous to people who move near an airport and then complain about the noise and want the airport authorities to limit flights or change flight paths because it bothers them.

 

If you don't like airplane noise, don't move near an airport.

 

If you don't like smoke emanating from verandahs, don't book a verandah cabin on a cruise line that allows smoking on verandahs.

[Sea King]

As long as there a few heavy smokers in Seattle -- CEO's, etc., -- smoking will not disappear from HAL ships.

 

ok KK .. you opened the door on this one

 

tell us who "the few heavy smokers in Seattle" are

 

IMHO, it's one thing to comment about smoking ..

 

however, it's an entirely different thing to "point the finger" especially if you don't identify the "CEO's etc"

 

please share your information with the board

[kelmac]

Bottom line:

 

---are more smokers going to migrate to HAL because of their policies?

---do you feel the number of smokers is increasing on HAL?

---is Celebrity going to get a wave of non-smokers from HAL?

---How about Oceania and Azamara, are they going to pick up HAL people?

---Are Oceania, Azamara and Celebrity smoking customers headed to HAL?

 

I must say, as a non-smoker it was really nice not having any issues on the Solstice and the Regatta.

Deep down, I don't think smokers "love" their habit. Being addicted to nicotine trumps just about everything in the brain and I'm very sympathetic to anyone trying to fight this battle. Cigarettes are the most cost effective way to deliver large amounts of nicotine into a persons blood stream.

There has got to be a better delivery system that does not have all the negative side effects.

I'm sure the tobacco industry would want to "snatch up" any such system for obvious reasons.

You can't have a smoking, non-smoking discussion on a level playing field when one of the parties is addicted to such a powerful drug. Nicotine is stronger than any of your words! Ex-smokers are so passionate about this smoking issue because they have made that long, difficult journey to a nicotine free existence.

 

Kel

[COLLEYBERRY]

Celebrity seems to have survived as a cruise line with their smoking policy(no smoking in cabins or verandas) Why would Hal be any different ?

 

If Hal were to provide their smoking clients with non intrusive, comfortable venues to enjoy their smokes and non smoking clients could be assured their " cabin home" would be truly smoke free ,surely Hal would survive,such a decision.

 

I know smokers(I am a former smoker) would prefer to smoke in their cabin, and balconies but like it or not, fair or not, that decision does impact others.

 

 

 

 

[kakalina]

There is an option Kelmac, one that doesn't put second hand smoke in the air. They are called electronic or e-cigarettes. They are quite amazing. The smoker gets his/her nicotine but the only "emissions"are moist vapor. No smoke. The can be smoked all kinds of places that don't allow smoking as there is no "smoke".

[COLLEYBERRY]

 

Kakalina maybe you have got something there..with new restrictions maybe Hal could provide their smoking quests(.along with bathrobes) . e cigarettes (extra charge of course) to make up of not being able to smoke in their cabin. May sound silly I know but hey is there really a solution to this problem:)

[kelmac]

There is an option Kelmac, one that doesn't put second hand smoke in the air. They are called electronic or e-cigarettes. They are quite amazing. The smoker gets his/her nicotine but the only "emissions"are moist vapor. No smoke. The can be smoked all kinds of places that don't allow smoking as there is no "smoke".

 

It would interesting to hear from smokers about this option. Is it as "satisfying" as cigarettes?

Does the moist vapor leave nicotine residue in the environment (clothing, walls, carpet, drapes...,)

Why has it not caught on?

 

Thanks,

Kel:)

[taxmantoo]

It would interesting to hear from smokers about this option. Is it as "satisfying" as cigarettes?

Does the moist vapor leave nicotine residue in the environment (clothing, walls, carpet, drapes...,)

Why has it not caught on?

 

Thanks,

Kel:)

 

This is probably why... at least in Canada.

 

Advisory

2009-53

March 27, 2009

For immediate release

OTTAWA - Health Canada is advising Canadians not to purchase or use electronic smoking products, as these products may pose health risks and have not been fully evaluated for safety, quality and efficacy by Health Canada.

These products come as electronic cigarettes, cigars, cigarillos and pipes, as well as cartridges of nicotine solutions and related products. These products fall within the scope of the Food and Drugs Act, and under the Act, require market authorization before they can be imported, advertised or sold. The sale of these health products is currently not compliant with the Food and Drugs Act since no electronic smoking products have been granted a market authorization in Canada.

In recent months, a number of electronic cigarettes, cigars and pipes as well as cartridges of nicotine solutions and related products have been marketed in Canada, and through the Internet. Most of these products are shaped and look like their conventional counterparts. They produce a vapour that resembles smoke and a glow that resembles the tip of a cigarette. They consist of a battery-powered delivery system that vapourizes and delivers a liquid chemical mixture that may be composed of various amounts of nicotine, propylene glycol, and other chemicals.

Nicotine is a highly addictive and toxic substance, and the inhalation of propylene glycol is a known irritant. Although these electronic smoking products may be marketed as a safer alternative to conventional tobacco products and, in some cases, as an aid to quitting smoking, electronic smoking products may pose risks such as nicotine poisoning and addiction. Please visit the Health Canada website for further information about nicotine and addiction.

Electronic smoking products, including their nicotine cartridges, must be kept out of the reach of children at all times, given the risk of choking or nicotine poisoning. Nicotine is hazardous to the health and safety of certain segments of the population such as children, youth, pregnant women, nursing mothers, people with heart conditions, and the elderly.

Persons importing, advertising or selling electronic cigarette products in Canada must stop doing so immediately. Health Canada is providing information to interested stakeholders on how to apply for the appropriate market authorizations and establishment licences.

Canadians who have used e-cigarette products and are concerned about their health should consult with a health care practitioner.

 

I think the people who view these e-cigarettes as a viable alternative have let the smoke that used to get in their eyes infiltrate their brains instead.

[sail7seas]

Yes, but during all of those dozens and dozens of cruises, HAL always allowed smoking on verandahs. Nothing has changed except for the whining about it.

 

 

 

What has changed is major!!!

 

Through the years of HAL permitting smoking on verandas, many states/provences/countries have been enacting very strict no smoking laws. The non-smoking population has become accustomed to not having to tolerate the stench in our every day lives.

 

We have become unable to abide it because we are never exposed to it at home so when we cruise, it is all the more offensive to us. It is a shock to us each time we breath it again each cruise because at home we never have to give it a thought.

 

None of our friends at home smoke; we never have to be exposed to it anywhere except when we cruise.

 

When on the ships, it is more distasteful because of that. And there are more of us exactly like that because more governing agencies are banning smoking in more places.

 

Soon, it will be all over the U.S.

[suse]

That does not mean it will not happen to you in the future. My husband's aunt never thought she would ever get lung cancer. Besides, you have made the choice to breathe the second hand smoke, I have not made that choice.

 

All I think reasonable people here are asking, is that smoking not be allowed on balconies, because it invades their space. Suites come at a premium cost. Even veranda staterooms cost considerably more than an inside stateroom. Why is it unreasonable that a person who paid considerably more for the privilege of a veranda, would desire it to be smoke free?

 

Reasonable people are not gripping about one side of the lido for smokers or a cigar lounge for smokers.

 

I used to "poo- poo" the balcony gripers. I always said I could go in my stateroom for 10 minutes while my neighbor smoked his cigarette. In the past that worked. Unfortunately this last cruise, we had a chain smoker next door, and he was out there very often, he was not my usually considerate smoking neighbor who would take one smoke and then allow me to enjoy my balcony. No, he was out smoking all the time, it seemed. So I have now changed my opinion.

 

Well as one post said, we can show our displeasure with our pocket books. I did notice this last cruise was more smoky than my previous HAL cruises. I am afraid many formerly loyal Celebrity smokers have shown their displeasure with Celebrity policies, by defecting to HAL, which means that perhaps there is a higher percentage of HAL PAX that smoke than 17%.

 

I do know many of you are loyal HAL cruisers who do not want to do this. Only you can decide if you are displeasured enough to "send HAL a message." Yes it is unfair you should need to do this after years of loyalty, but that is what it may take for HAL to change their policy.

Thank you. I don't want to switch cruiselines but my last cruise, this past December, was much more smoky than usual. I think you are correct in assuming that smokers are defecting to HAL because RCCL and Celebrity are more strict about smoking. I do prefer Holland America overall.

[serendipity1499]

In 13 HAL cruises I've never smelled smoke in any of our cabins except on the last cruise..A passenger was medically disembarked on our last cruise..Our Friends were moved to that cabin because their air conditioner did not work & could not be fixed until they got back to FtL..Drapes, all bedding & even the shower curtain was changed in the new cabin..This is SOP when a Psgr is disembarked for any Medical reason..

 

Sorry this paragraph in my previous post does not make sense..For some reason I had CRS & forgot the point of it..:o

I should have gone on to say: Everything was changed except the sofa in our Friends new cabin..When we visited them the smell of smoke was still in the cabin, which we believe came from the sofa..It was not strong, but it was definitely there..It reminded me of how I used to smell after bowling several years ago..There were lots of smokers in the alley..I had to hang my clothes out on the patio before placing them in the laundry basket & shower & wash my hair before I went to bed..:eek:

Betty

[hulamoon]

As I mentioned, there have been adjustments as recently as last year

 

If the changes have been made, why keep sending out the survey? It gives false hope to those who want further restriction.

 

Sorry to pracitice my first quote transfer on your quote Dutch.

 

I spoke to a TA yesterday and she told me that she does feel there is a switch going on with the most sensitive and the chain smokers, what scares me is that the smoking will become worse not better.

 

Hawaii does not allow smoking in any hotel, bar or workplace, so it isn't part of my life at all until my neighbors friends light up and it blows into my house or I cruise and I realize just how much smoking still happens in the world.

 

If all the changes have been made, I think it will get worse before it gets better because chain smokers will move to one of the few lines left that allow smoking in the cabin and on the balcony. Frankly, we just assumed Princess and HAL would follow suit, it just hadn't occured to me until this thread they would become the smokers choice line.

[serendipity1499]

I am not against a separate accommodation for smokers. I am simply pointing out that IMO, your example of Oceania notwithstanding, based on economics, smoking trends, passenger demographics, logistical difficulties and basic safety considerations, that HAL is more likely to ban smoking entirely, rather than outfit or designate special inside and outside areas just for smokers.

 

 

You might be right...But believe that HAL probably will loose a lot of business, especially the European & Asian business, if they put a total ban on smoking..

 

At the moment, Oceania only has three small ships (600 Psgrs) similar to the Prinsendam..Their inside smoking section is in a small section of the Horizon's Lounge (similar to the Crows Nest), which is not entirely perfect..There usually were 4-5 smokers in that section, for afternoon tea..At afternoon tea, we always tried to sit on the other side of the lounge as some smoke will waft into the non-smoking area.. Oceania's new Mid-size ship "Marina" (1250+ Psgr), which will have her inaugural passage next Jan., will have the same areas set aside for smokers..

 

I would hate to pay for a Verandah on HAL & have smoke wafting in my face..It's bad enough on the smoking side of the Promenade deck..We try to avoid that side, as have had smokers stand right in front or several feet away from us smoking cigars..:eek: And when the ship is moving the smoke blows right back in our faces!:(

Seperate smoking areas, seems to work well for Oceania, so as Ruth says, why not try it on HAL..

JMO..Cheers...:)

Betty

[serendipity1499]

That does not mean it will not happen to you in the future. My husband's aunt never thought she would ever get lung cancer. Besides, you have made the choice to breathe the second hand smoke, I have not made that choice.

 

All I think reasonable people here are asking, is that smoking not be allowed on balconies, because it invades their space. Suites come at a premium cost. Even veranda staterooms cost considerably more than an inside stateroom. Why is it unreasonable that a person who paid considerably more for the privilege of a veranda, would desire it to be smoke free?

 

Reasonable people are not gripping about one side of the lido for smokers or a cigar lounge for smokers.

 

I used to "poo- poo" the balcony gripers. I always said I could go in my stateroom for 10 minutes while my neighbor smoked his cigarette. In the past that worked. Unfortunately this last cruise, we had a chain smoker next door, and he was out there very often, he was not my usually considerate smoking neighbor who would take one smoke and then allow me to enjoy my balcony. No, he was out smoking all the time, it seemed. So I have now changed my opinion.

 

Well as one post said, we can show our displeasure with our pocket books. I did notice this last cruise was more smoky than my previous HAL cruises. I am afraid many formerly loyal Celebrity smokers have shown their displeasure with Celebrity policies, by defecting to HAL, which means that perhaps there is a higher percentage of HAL PAX that smoke than 17%.

 

I do know many of you are loyal HAL cruisers who do not want to do this. Only you can decide if you are displeasured enough to "send HAL a message." Yes it is unfair you should need to do this after years of loyalty, but that is what it may take for HAL to change their policy.

 

I too agree with you..

My lovely sister-in-law, Mother of 6 wonderful kids, & grandmother of 12 has had lung cancer & now has trouble breathing from being a long time smoker..The lung cancer is in remission however, yesterday she told me that she can no longer take long walks with her greyhound on her beach board-walk, which she always loved to do...Her breathing is getting so bad that for exercise she's using her indoor treadmill..It saddens me to see this wonderful & vibrant woman wasting away. :(

 

As you & other reasonable people have mentioned, I don't oppose smoking completely, but think we should be able to live peacefully together without infringing on each others rights..

Why not have have separate areas for smokers & prohibit smoking in cabins & veranda's..

We love HAL & would hate to change, but if the smoking problem gets worse, we might just have to find another cruise line..

Betty

[MadManOfBethesda]

What has changed is major!!!

 

Through the years of HAL permitting smoking on verandas, many states/provences/countries have been enacting very strict no smoking laws. The non-smoking population has become accustomed to not having to tolerate the stench in our every day lives.

 

Really?

 

We're talking about verandahs remember.

 

Would you care to list the "many" states/provences/countries that have enacted no smoking laws for outdoor areas?

[cruz chic]

Just an FYI the spelling is Provinces for the Cdn. equiv. of States.

[serendipity1499]

Really?

 

We're talking about verandahs remember.

 

Would you care to list the "many" states/provences/countries that have enacted no smoking laws for outdoor areas?

 

Madman you are mis-interpreting Sails post..Yes we are talking about Verandah's but she is saying that there are many many areas where people can't smoke & non-smokers are used to having smoke free enviroments.....

FYI, there are many areas in Florida which prohibit smoking outdoors..For instance:

RSW airport Management will be presenting a propsal to county commissioners this month about making our International airport a smoke free campus including outside areas....

 

http://www.nbc-2.com/global/story.asp?s=11712495

 

Lee Memorial Health System, which is one of the largest hospital systems in Florida, with 15 campuses, has completely banned smoking & use of any tobacco product, on all of their properties, including all outside areas leased or owned by the system..

 

Any employee or volunteer will be dismissed from the staff if they are caught smoking, even in the parking lots..

This is a quote from Jim Nathan's (Pres.) News release:

http://www.leememorial.org/about/Healthcare_Notes_GB_tobacco.asp

Quote

This essential step has helped us to become leaders in the fight against tobacco use in Southwest Florida. However, LMHS is pleased to say that Lehigh Regional Medical Center, Physicians Regional Healthcare System and NCH Health Care System are also going tobacco free, meaning all hospitals and health systems in Charlotte, Collier and Lee counties will no longer permit tobacco usage on their premises. Many other local businesses have jumped on board, as well! Unquote

Betty

[sail7seas]

Really?

 

We're talking about verandahs remember.

 

Would you care to list the "many" states/provences/countries that have enacted no smoking laws for outdoor areas?

 

I'm very sure you get the point.

We, from the many states/countries who have put in place restrictive smoking rules, are not accustomed to being exposed to it. Have you not heard of cities that don't permit people to smoke within so many feet of the entrance/doorway? The community hospital in my area has a rule no smoking permitted anywhere on their property, either indoors or out. Any employee caught smoking anywhere on their property including parking lots gets one warning and is then fired. They are not permitted to smoke in their own cars if they are parked in hospital lot.

 

You want the name of the hospital?

Many of the people who come from one of the many states with strict smoking laws have a hard time on the ships when they smell smoke they almost never smell at home.

 

This is surprising to you?

You doubt it?

[sachiboo]

Your entire post was thoughtful and well written. You've also made the right decision. There are SO MANY other lines that restrict smoking moreso than HAL. Good luck, sachiboo! :)

 

(As a smoker, I'm actually entertaining the thought of an Oceania cruise....)

 

Zappa Fan,

 

Thank you for your kind comment. While on board the Veendam, we decided to book a transatlantic crossing with Oceania. We are now doing a b2b cruise on the Regatta's November'10 sailing. HAL smoking policy made the decision easier.

[MadManOfBethesda]

This is surprising to you?

You doubt it?

 

No, it is not surprising to me and I don't doubt it. All I am saying is that people need to quit whining about it.

 

I'll repeat the point I made earlier: If they don't like the smell of smoke emanating from nearby verandahs, they shouldn't book a cruise on a line that permits it. It is really that simple.

 

I'll also repeat something else I mentioned earlier: There is no doubt in my mind that if HAL converted all but one of its ships to nonsmoking, there would still be people who book a cruise on that one ship and then whine about how the smell of smoke bothered them and that HAL should make the entire fleet smoke-free.

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

Just FYI - in British Columbia (Canadian province) you cannot smoke on the outdoor patios at restaurants.

 

YaYa

[Vic The Parrot]

It goes on ... and on ... and on ... and on ... :rolleyes: