Spirit Pilot Stike

[centurycruiser]

It doesn't say if these stats are from private or commercial or corporate jobs, but it does also include helicopter pilots.

 

"Pilots fly airplanes and helicopters to do many jobs. Most pilots fly people and cargo from place to place. Some pilots test new planes, fight fires, do police work, or rescue people who are hurt or in danger."

 

So I'm going to say these stats don't really give us much information for this thread because these stats aren't ONLY for commercial pilots who work for airlines.

 

That's true and they are from the government to boot. But, it also says average pay which means that a lot of people have to make much more than $119,750 if people making $19,000 are in there too. If half the pilots made $19,000 the other half would make about $220,000 for the average to be $119,750. So, somewhere along the line some pilots somewhere are making money.

 

But, that is the best info available. Short of a photo copy of gone-cruisin's pay stub.

 

I find it difficult to believe someone would go to college for 4 years, pay to fly 1000 hours, end up with $80,000 debt in school loans for a job that paid $19,000, but, hey, that's just me! You could make that with no high school diploma in McDonald's.

[spleenstomper]

For instance, I used to teach children of FedEX pilots (granted this was years ago) and they made a LOT of money.

 

So if you are going to lump FedEx pilots in with commercial pilots, there is no way to say who is making what... but we do know the average is now skewed.

[gone_cruisin]

It is not my paycheck, but someone else's in my household.

But if you want to know why the average is so high, it's very simple:

 

The vast amount of pilots work for the majors or cargo - both are at the higher end of the payscale. The smaller regional airlines or small airlines like Spirit employ much smaller amounts of pilots.

 

So 10,000 pilots making $19,000 a year vs. 75,000 pilots making 125,000 makes a very skewed average.

 

Do not quote me on these exact pilot numbers, but it is known that the smaller airline pilots make much much less.

 

Why do they shoulder so much debt and take such low paying jobs? It's a sick answer, but it's the only one I know - FOR THE LOVE OF FLYING. Airline management knows this and takes full advantage of it too by setting the starting pay so low.

[spleenstomper]

I find it difficult to believe someone would go to college for 4 years, pay to fly 1000 hours, end up with $80,000 debt in school loans for a job that paid $19,000, but, hey, that's just me! You could make that with no high school diploma in McDonald's.

 

 

I guess you have never met a surgical resident who has 4 years college, 4 years medical school and is making 28K a year for the 5 years of residency, and who also has over 100K in debt?

 

Believe me it happens....

[centurycruiser]

I guess you have never met a surgical resident who has 4 years college, 4 years medical school and is making 28K a year for the 5 years of residency, and who also has over 100K in debt?

 

Believe me it happens....

 

Oh, the old obama strawman argument. That's not what I said, but, if things were so bad being a pilot or surgeon, McDonald's would be beating applicants off with a stick.

 

Of course the surgeon is doing that so he can make $19,000 when he's done.

 

Don't try to convince me everyone has it so bad.

[spleenstomper]

I simply stated a fact. I don't care about Obama. I'm not trying to convince you anyone has it bad.

 

I'm simply stating a FACT that people DO go through school/college/advanced schooling and debt and DO make less than a manager at McDonalds. It's a means to an end.

 

I disproved that part of your argument.

 

For instance, FedEX doesn't take novice pilots without any experience. Working for Spirit is a means to an end. I don't know what kind of contract the Spirit pilots sign, etc, but if someone comes out of school and wants to be a pilot, they have to start somewhere.

 

The bureau article also stated that not many pilots in the cushy jobs are retiring, so the Spirit pilot has to sit there and accumulate hours and experience for an untold amount of years before they can move on.

 

But that doesn't mean they don't make 19K a year.

[2thesea]

proof of pay here you go. This is a small portion of the cockpit transcript from the Colgan Air flight that crashed in Buffalo. The pay that is mentioned was proven and noted in other stories.

 

Shaw also complained about poor treatment by Colgan Air Inc. of Manassas, Va., which operated the flight for Continental Airlines. She said she earned only $15,800 the previous year and the airline was refusing to give her $200 in back pay she felt she was owed.

[fourwaystreet]

I read that the pilots were offered a 30% increase in pay over 5 years. If that is true, they are not only greedy but idiots to be striking in this environment. They deserve to be fired and replaced by someone willing to work.

 

This must have been written by one of the union negotiators.

 

I cannot believe there would be a pilot around making less money than a secretary unless she happens to work for the government.

 

The co pilot of flight 3407 which crashed near Buffalo NY killing almost 50 people made less that 30k a year.

[gone_cruisin]

For instance, FedEX doesn't take novice pilots without any experience. Working for Spirit is a means to an end. I don't know what kind of contract the Spirit pilots sign, etc, but if someone comes out of school and wants to be a pilot, they have to start somewhere.

 

The bureau article also stated that not many pilots in the cushy jobs are retiring, so the Spirit pilot has to sit there and accumulate hours and experience for an untold amount of years before they can move on.

 

But that doesn't mean they don't make 19K a year.

 

 

Well put! I do not know the exact amount a starting Spirit makes, but I'm sure it's less than a manager at McDonalds. And with no job growth or opportunity to move up, or move on to another airline, what is left to do?

 

People might say suck it up or leave, but there will come a point where airline managers can no longer fill these almost minimum wage pilot positions.

 

If Spirit was to fire all these pilots, as several posters have stated, then the Airline would have to cease operations. It takes months to train replacement pilots. It's not like a truck driver where you can move from one rig to another.

[gone_cruisin]

I highly recommend anyone who is booked on Spirit in the coming week(s) to start contacting other airlines. Just my gut feeling, but I feel this will last longer than many expect.

 

Those in particular going to San Juan, I would make other arrangements now before the other airlines sell out.

 

If this goes longer than a week, Spirit will have to fold. Airlines expendable cash are very limited.

[janetz]

I cruise on late August. I certainly hope this is resolved. My biggest concern is the company going under.

 

I cannot imagine them pilots striking for 2+ months, but what do I know :rolleyes:

 

 

I dont know how this all works but do you think if you called Spirit and cancell (after you have found another flight of course) they might refund you? Can't hurt to call and ask considering the circumstances.

 

[2thesea]

I dont know how this all works but do you think if you called Spirit and cancelled (after you have found another flight of course) they might refund you?

 

 

Not sure how fare out they will allow you to cancel and get a refund based on the strike. Info should be listed on their website. Calling them will not be easy that is for sure. If you do anything on their website make sure you keep copies of EVERYTHING you do so you have backup info in case refunds are not processed.

[gone_cruisin]

I dont know how this all works but do you think if you called Spirit and cancell (after you have found another flight of course) they might refund you? Can't hurt to call and ask considering the circumstances.

 

 

that's a tough one! It's all going to depend on who you talk to. My initial thought is no, but maybe if you raise enough heck, they may consider it. Test the waters and call them first. If you get the vibe they aren't going to budge, then you know they plan on keeping your money regardless.

 

Let me tell you, flying "stand by" with another airline during the summer months is nerve racking...especially when you have a boat to miss. It's summer and the flights are at their fullest.

[2thesea]

Also for those that have travel insurance check with your insurance company as this should fall under trip interuption - below is info from the Spirit Website

 

To Our Loyal Customers:

Spirit Airlines is continuing to work with our pilot union to reach a fair and equitable agreement that ensures the long-term stability of the company, and allows us to continue offering you the ultra low fares you have come to know and love.

In the meantime, as of Saturday, June 12, 2010, the pilot union has declared a strike.

Therefore, Spirit Airlines flights are cancelled for Saturday, June 12 – Tuesday, June 15, 2010. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

If you are scheduled to fly Spirit on Saturday, June 12 – Tuesday, June 15, 2010, we will process a credit for you for the full amount of your unflown flight purchase (valid for one year from the original booking date), and we will also give you a $100 Future Flight Credit to thank you for your continued support.

If you would prefer to receive a full refund, please call 1 (800) 772-7117 and one of our Customer Service Representatives will assist you.

[msmayor]

I checked the paperwork and didn't see anything about an exclusion. The office opens tomorrow. I 'll give them a call.

 

Worst case scenario would be that we would drive. It would be 16+ hours, but better than paying $553 for a refundable fare. I will keep a close eye on this situation.

 

Which insurer is providing coverage?

[3redheads]

Which insurer is providing coverage?

 

Trutravel, through insuremytrip. com:

 

Company

Plan Name Super Saver !

Plan Terms Full Details

Plan Type Package

Total Policy Cost $100.00

Available to Travelers from U.S.

Trip Cancellation $773

Trip Interruption $773

Financial Default Not Selected

(see Additional Options)

Terrorism in Itinerary City Not Selected

(see Additional Options)

Cancel For Any Reason Not Available

Travel Baggage $600 2

Travel Baggage Delay 12+ hours

$100 max.

Travel Delay 6+ hours

$200/day; $600 max.

Medical $10,000 ($50 ded.) 2

$50,000 ($50 ded.) (+$33) 2

Dental $750 Incl. in Medical 2

Emergency Medical Evacuation $1,000,000

24-Hour Emergency Assistance Yes

Pre-Existing Conditions Waiver Not Selected

(see Additional Options)

Pre-Existing Condition Period 60 Days

Insurance Company Nationwide

A.M. Best Rating A+

Refund Policy 10 Day Review Period

Rental Car Collision/Loss (per policy) $0

$25,000 (+$63)

24-Hour Not Available

Common Carrier Not Available

Flight Flight Option

$0

$100,000 (+$30)

$250,000 (+$75)

$500,000 (+$150)

Policy Fulfillment Email

Additional Options Coverage for Financial Default, Terrorism and Pre-existing Conditions Waiver [Can only be purchased within 21 days of Initial Trip Payment] (+$43)

Travel Supplier Restrictions None

Additional Notes Roadside Assist

Identity Theft Services

TruTravel Wellness

Plan Name Super Saver !

[greatam]

I checked the paperwork and didn't see anything about an exclusion. The office opens tomorrow. I 'll give them a call.

 

Worst case scenario would be that we would drive. It would be 16+ hours, but better than paying $553 for a refundable fare. I will keep a close eye on this situation.

 

Per your policy (you have to click on the FULL DETAILS tab to read the policy):

 

Covers STRIKE

 

BUT

 

Definition of strike per policy-UNANNOUNCED cessation of service

 

I would doubt you have much coverage due to the wording.

 

Hope the strike ends soon.

[6rugrats]

I don't like any company that doesn't have a working/useful webpage.

 

https://www.trutravelinsurance.com

 

Also, in the coverage details you provided, 3redheads, I note:

Financial Default Not Selected

 

Keep your fingers crossed that this strike does not put Spirit out-of-business.

[3redheads]

Thank you both so much!!~

 

Luckily the airfare was only $143, but if they go under, it's still money we'll be out.

 

Never expected this!

[Shelbyjane56]

That is exactly how I feel. I know where my luggage is.I know how I wll get around.I know my approximate cost and arrival time.I don't pay a bunch of additional bullsh-t fees to anyone.The airlines can all go out of business as far as I am concerned.

 

I wouldnt fly on Spirit at all, delta is the best as far as flying all over the world, but even if we didnt fly as much as we do, I wouldnt wish for airlines to go out of business, some of us have family all over the world.

[FlyerTalker]

Never expected this!

The quote of the week??

 

Of course, it comes in behind

from Monty Python.

[gapearl]

I cannot believe there would be a pilot around making less money than a secretary unless she happens to work for the government.

 

People think pilots make 6 figures. Yes, some do, but with 20 years of seniority. Many pilots start their careers at small regional carriers where you don't make a lot of money, just like with any other entry level position. Do you remember the Colgan Air plane crash in Buffalo in a winter storm last February? The first officer (copilot) on that flight reportedly had a second job at a coffee shop to supplement her income. I work for an airline and see the most senior flight attendant making more money than the most junior pilot.

 

Also, some posters have said the pilots knew what they were signing up for when they took the job. NOT NECESSARILY TRUE! What you think it's like and what it's really like are two totally different things. Until you have worked in the airline industry, you have no idea what the work rules and conditions are. The Spirit strike is just as much about better work conditions as it is money and I support them 200%.

[fin]

Do you make $19,000 a year? 30% of that is not much.

 

Do you believe that the pilot flying your plane that has had to go through years and years of flying and school is not worth more than $19,000?

 

 

For comparison, some pro basketball players make more than that for each basket they shoot.

[CogitoErgoZoom]

It's the consumers fault. They expect to fly from NYC to LA for $50. Then they complain when they don't get a $.50 bag of nuts and somehow think that their $100 should mean that the airline bends over backwards for them. Spirit is part of the super-cheap crowd that caters to these people, but to keep costs down they don't pay the highest salaries.

 

I would never fly Spirit and gladly pay an extra couple of bucks for business or first class.

 

Long story short: color me unsurprised.

[Tapi]

I'm an airline pilot. Here are some points of clarification:

 

About how much money pilots make:

 

Yes, the "average" pilot salary (if there's such a thing) is somewhere around $120,000/yr, but this number is HIGHLY misleading. On one end you have your newly hired, regional turboprop first officer making $19,000/yr and at the other end you have your major airline Boeing 777 captain with 35 years of seniority making close to $300,000/yr. But for every pilot at the top end of the scale, there are hundreds if not thousands of pilots at the bottom of the pay scale. Next time you go through a major airport, count the small regional planes vs. large wide body jets.

 

About the "alleged" 30% increase that Spirit has offered the pilots:

 

What Spirit management forgot to mention is that the deal that they offered the pilots requires working longer hours and getting less rest. It also fails to mention that while a pilot may be at work for a given trip for 70-80 hours every week, the company actually ONLY pays them for the hours when the plane's door is closed. For any given week most pilots are actually averaging only about 18-24 paid hours, even though they've been at work much longer.

 

When figuring out in real numbers what Spirit management offered their pilots, they will actually be making LESS money during the next few years, and a very small pay bump in the following years.

 

About pilots being greedy:

 

If ANY doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other highly specialized professional that has spent as much money, education, time, and experience as airline pilots have was told that they would be making $20,000-$30,000/yr 20 years into their profession, there would be NO doctors out there. Yet pilots keep chugging along with all the pay cuts, furloughs, downgrades, regulation changes, threats, etc because we LOVE what we do, not for greed!

 

Calling Spirit pilots greedy for finally putting their foot down and telling management that they have had enough after years of terrible treatment just shows how little the general public really knows about how airlines are run...