bigger, bigger, BIGGER SHIPS...

[Rick-cruiser]

The trend in the cruise industry is to build bigger and bigger ships - which carry more people per sailing, as we have seen especially during the last few years.. Understandably, it's much more cost-effective for cruiselines to sail each ship with an increased number of people, thus generating as much revenue as possible during each and every sailing.

 

How far have they gone with this though?. How big is too big?. When we first started cruising, the ships we sailed on held less than 1200 passengers.. Our very first cruise had 950 passengers.. Yes, the ships were smaller, but the cruise vacation itself felt more intimate, more special.. We got to know many if not most of the passengers, AND the crew, by the 3rd or 4th day.. It was less chaotic and "resort-like", and instead held the spirit of a true sailing adventure.. I recently read that a CEO of a cruiseline said that one of the benefits of building bigger and bigger ships is that people can "forget that they are at sea".

 

I'm wondering.. how far will they go?. We may very well hear of a cruise ship being constructed that will hold 10,000 passengers... :eek:

 

- Rick

.

[Janet524]

When we began cruising 25+ years ago the ships were certainly smaller and more intimate, and we do miss that aspect with the larger ships. However, the cost of cruising back then was considerably more than it is now...Economy of scale, I suppose.

 

When I consider the pros and cons of larger ships, I must say I'm "conflicted." While I truly miss getting to know fellow passengers and ships staff, the amenities offered on the mega-ships are amazing; and I enjoy partaking in many of the offerings. The cruse experience has definitely changed, and it is one's personal opinion if it is for the better or not.

 

We enjoy being onboard a beautiful small vessel, sipping a glass of wine and watching the ocean go by. But we also enjoy the large scale shows that a big ship affords. At the end of the day, we're "cruisaholics" and will keep on sailing until we sail on to Valhalla!:)

[suec12]

Well I've been cruising maybe 20 years - another huge change is that a crusie has gone from a special, fairly high end vactaion to well into mainstream. It is such a bargain to "get on the boat" - a huge value play for a family vaction.

 

I don't like the big boats and the whole floating resort marketing but I can see its appeal to families. I wonder how land resorts even compete! But for me, I look for the smaller ships like Oceania and Azamara but they are so much pricier than the mainstream.

[chisoxfan]

Just a matter of opinion but my "sweet spot" for a ship is 100-130,000 Tons. (Clebrity S class, Princess Princess Class) This size offers multiple pools, varied dining options, usually first class entertainment venues, shopping, etc. Any larger and you are overwhelmed by number of passengers. Looking forward to our first S class cruise after Princess, NCL, and Century.

[Kathie44]

We started in Jan. '02 on Voyager Class Explorer OS which, at the time, was the largest class of ships. We loved it and sailed her again in Jan. '03. In Aug. '03 we sailed Summit to Alaska with friends on our first X cruise and loved her, too. Next year we sailed on Adventure. After that Galaxy, Jewel and Mercury twice in a row. Since DH passed away I've sailed Galaxy and Summit again and have Summit and Constellation booked for next year. I don't know if I would want to go any bigger than Voyager class. I hate that Galaxy and soon Mercury are by the boards. I am very comfortable with the M class ships. The other thing keeping me from looking at the bigger ships is the higher price.

I might try Century sometime.

The really small, "luxury" ships don't appeal to me because of the price and lack of activities onboard.

Of course it all depends on where I want to go and when. The only thing for sure is that I will stick with X and RCCL as my lines. (In that order)

[cruie4ever]

Yes our first cruise was on Carnival Holiday (still in service) & the passenger total was in the 1400 range Then we sailed the Jubilee at some 1500 pax .from there on the ships became much larger in length ,width ,tonage & passenger load. We really do prefer the larger ,newer ships with all the Bells & Whistles ,like the S class ships

[Mr. Luckytoo]

At the end of the day, we're "cruisaholics" and will keep on sailing until we sail on to Valhalla!:)

 

Is that HAL's new Caribbean port of call? :p

 

So which was the biggest ship you've sailed?

[lysolqn]

It's not the size of the ship that bothers us but rather the fact that the bigger the ships get, the less like ships and the more like floating Las Vegas hotels they're becoming. Not that we have anything against Las Vegas hotels, but when we want Las Vegas we don't go on a cruise and when we're on a cruise, we don't want to feel like we're in Las Vegas. All the crowds, bells and whisltes and eye candy of the newer, bigger ships are slowing replacing the things that used to make cruising unique.

[jgnova]

After reading that the new Disney ship would have inside cabins with "magic" windows that could show outside views, I had this vision of them installing them on the Oasis class. Those ships are apparently so big you have absolutely no sense of movement. So the ship could go out of port far enough to open the casinos and sell booze and they would erect screens around all of the decks that made you think you were sailing someplace. Maybe have a make believe port or two but announce that it's too rough to tender or dock. Who would know or care?

 

j:)

[NH Cruisers]

I like to know I am on a ship. I want to feel the seas movement. I also want to be able to be somewhat close to the water, I like the deck 5 area wraparound promenades on some ships. I really dont care how big the ship gets as long as the above pertains.

 

Jon,

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I have sailed on ships of multiple sizes and passenger densities. While I find ships in the 90,000 ton range - HAL Vista Class, X Millenium Class, RCCL Radiance Class, etc - to be my favourite size ship, I have sailed on larger and hated the experience (Mariner of the Seas) and conversely loved it (Celebrity Solstice, Grand/Golden/Caribbean Princess'es). The same can be said of smaller - hated the Imagination but loved the Mercury ......

 

For me more of my enjoyment of a cruise experience has to do w/ the ship's layout, decor and overall product mix/delivery/target audience - much more so than size :D.

 

I will say I miss the days when ships, felt like, well, ships ....... The SS Norway will always hold a spot in my heart. Not the most beautiful ship I have ever been on, but had a certain "air" that only a true liner can posses (even though by the time I sailed her NCL had bastardized most of her original layout and decor the guts and bones of her former liner days were still there for those who were willing to look for them).

[harryfat1]

Cheaper for the cruise lines to operate few big ships than lots of small ships. If they have to fill 10,000 berths, cheaper to operate 2 ships with 5,000 passengers each than to operate 5 ships of 2,000 each.

 

Perhaps it’s irksome to the traditionalists, but the cruise lines are trying to attract as many first time cruisers as possible and as such, they want to market their ships to be more like a floating city than a ship. They achieve this either by making it more Vegas like or by adding as many things to the ship to make it not to look like a ship (e.g. rock climbing/promenade malls/zip lining).

 

Due to recession, the pace of new mega ships have slowed. Princess will have no new mega ships between 2008-2013 (new ship wil be 141K tons). HAL has no ships planned after 2010. RCI’s last official new ship is the Allure in December and that’s it for them for now. Building the two mega ships increased the long term debt on their balance sheet by $2.5 billion, so they need to generate enough money next few years to pay for the new ships. So it’s highly unlikely you will see any 10,000 passenger ships in the near future.

 

Obviously different groups have different preferences. On our HAL cruise few years ago, at the repeat cruiser party, the captain said the company had no plans in near future to build anything more than 100K ton ships. That drew a big round of applauds from the faithful that prefers smaller ships. However, if this same message was delivered to Carnival or RCI crowd that craves the bigger ships. There may be some boos and hisses in the crowd if they have to give up their mega liners.

[DHADEN]

The trend in the cruise industry is to build bigger and bigger ships - which carry more people per sailing, as we have seen especially during the last few years.. Understandably, it's much more cost-effective for cruiselines to sail each ship with an increased number of people, thus generating as much revenue as possible during each and every sailing.

 

...............................

I'm wondering.. how far will they go?. We may very well hear of a cruise ship being constructed that will hold 10,000 passengers... :eek:

- Rick

.

 

Of course the Oasis and the Allur are out there, but I can tell you, RCI CANCELED the building of the third Oasis Class ship... They simply can't fill them.

 

We have always LOVED the Radiance Class - big, but not too crowded.

We tried the Mariner & the Freedom -loved the cruises, but the ships were too crowded.

Then we went on the Infinity (M-Class, aren't they?). That was the same size as the Radiance, but 300 fewer pax. = = even better.

 

Now the word in the RCI offices is that the Solstice Class will be the future. Too many people are saying the others (Voyager, Freedom, and Oasis Classes) are JUST TOO MANY PEOPLE!!

The S-Class is a good "In-Between" size and # of pax. These ships will be the future, at least at Celebrity and RCI.

[Sail Girl]

It's not the size of the ship that bothers us but rather the fact that the bigger the ships get, the less like ships and the more like floating Las Vegas hotels they're becoming. Not that we have anything against Las Vegas hotels, but when we want Las Vegas we don't go on a cruise and when we're on a cruise, we don't want to feel like we're in Las Vegas. All the crowds, bells and whisltes and eye candy of the newer, bigger ships are slowing replacing the things that used to make cruising unique.

 

Couldn't agree with you more! When we sailed on the Liberty of the Seas we felt like we had been transported to Las Vegas. We didn't feel like we were on a cruise ship, but in one of the large hotels on The Strip. Didn't like it at all from the time we boarded until we disembarked. Too much glitz and too noisy for us.

I'm sure there are a great many people who will try these large ships - perhaps those who thought they wouldn't like cruising.

My hope is that Celebrity will continue to have M Class Ships, as my DH and I love the size, layout and amenities, especially the T Pool and Aqua Spa Cafe.

[yogimax]

Of course the Oasis and the Allur are out there, but I can tell you, RCI CANCELED the building of the third Oasis Class ship... They simply can't fill them.

 

 

Two points... first, they have filled Oasis to capacity and bookings are exceedingly strong for the future. Allure also has very strong bookings. If you don't believe it, check the premium prices that people are willing to pay.

 

Second... the economic downturn is what is limiting new construction. See what happens when the economy finally turns around and people begin to take more vacations.

[kitty9]

Two points... first, they have filled Oasis to capacity and bookings are exceedingly strong for the future. Allure also has very strong bookings. If you don't believe it, check the premium prices that people are willing to pay.

 

Second... the economic downturn is what is limiting new construction. See what happens when the economy finally turns around and people begin to take more vacations.

 

The reason why they charge premium prices is because there is a large segment of the cruising population that wants to be the first to cruise on a new, innovative ship. We'll see how this goes once the newness wears off. But I know, from my TA, that bookings on Oasis weren't all that great and they were offering some decent deals just to get the ship filled.

 

As for taking vacations, I don't know about you, but I fly a lot, not just for cruises, and whenever I'm in an airport, it's filled with families flying to vacation. I'm amazed to see the sheer numbers of families flying for vacations, and I too thought the economy would impact things. But from what I've seen, families are still taking trips.

[derf5585]

How about this ship

 

click on thumbnail

[DHADEN]

Two points... first, they have filled Oasis to capacity and bookings are exceedingly strong for the future. Allure also has very strong bookings. If you don't believe it, check the premium prices that people are willing to pay.

...................

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

There have been several stories from those who have been on board the Oasis.

One was a pax who enjoyed the Oasis VERY much, and stated that they were worried about the "Crowds", but instead wondered "Where are all the people?"

Turns out on their particular cruise, there were only 3500 passengers.

 

Another story from another review I read some time ago was a passenger from the Oasis who spoke of the Suites being given away at the Bingo because there were so many of them sailing vacant. They also talked about the ship being MUCH LESS than full.

On most ships, the suites are the first to fill.

 

I know several T.A.'s who would love to book the Oasis (Don't know for sure, but hinted that RCI offered specials to the T.A.'s to help fill the ship), but have trouble justifying the higher prices and end up telling their clients to wait until the price lowers.

 

I do know as a stock-holder in RCCL (RCL) - when the Allure was finished and it was time to start booking both ships, the "powers to be" were freaking out because they had a third one contracted and realized they have waaaaaaaay over-reached.

 

Part of that may be because of the economic downturn - but that's all the more reason to be realistic when it comes to long-term profits. They canceled the contract to build the third one, and now have the S-Class in mind to build a ship that will give what everyone loves about the Radiance Class, and also include some of the Voyager Class features as well.

 

Those plans are not solid, it's just what they are talking about for a few years from now.

 

Hope This Helps.

[tigger1968]

Bigger is not always better! I have been on RCCL Mariner, Explorer and Liberty for big. Great ships, lots to do, large rooms, plenty of fun aboard.

 

But my favorite cruise experience was on the 30,000 ton Azamara Journey. While it was small, it was still an amazing experience. It was docked next to the Liberty AND Freedom of the Seas so when I first saw the Journey I began to worry that i made a mistake. You could drop that ship into the RCCL Promonade. However, it was a great experience that I will repeat one day.

 

Favorite ship.....I love them all equally but some more equally like the Constellation. Maybe because it was my Honeymoon, perhaps because it had the best specialty restaurant on the seas IMHO (Ocean Liners), but it was a beautiful ship. Great layout, great food, open yet intimate feel and inviting. I would walk the whole ship every day and never got tired of walking around. There was somethng to see on every deck.

 

So no, bigger is not always better....but it can be more fun.

[NH Cruisers]

Smaller ships will always be around. Cruises will still be visiting smaller shallower ports and they also always transit canals that limit their size for certain itinerarys. If you don't care for the big ships just realize that you can save a bit more money and cruise a small ship.

 

I for one like the 120,000 grt - 150,000 grt range. I like looking down at the smaller ships in port and view the decks of the "smaller" ships. You know your on a ship, they still have plenty of rolling and rocking on 2 meter and more seas. You walk 80 feet port or starboard and can sea the ocean. I have been on "Mariner of the Seas" twice and "Explorer of the Seas" twice. I loved those ships.

 

Then again the "State of Maine" I cruised for 60 days and lived on it for 6 months, was 530 feet wide by 70 feet wide 13,500 grt. That ship really felt the sea, it was awsome. Not much for service and hospitality on that one though, all self service. It was a training ship.

[RickyandLucy]

I don't want to forget I'm at sea.

 

Lucy

[Infi]

Economies of scale dictate the building of larger and larger ships. It's more fuel efficient, cost efficient, all those sorts of things. What I wonder is where is threshold, the tipping point? As a self-contained, moving environment that must dock in ports, there has to be a physical limit to the size of the ship and passengers it can hold. You just can't unleash 10,000 people from one ship on a Caribbean island, nor can a ship that size dock in the majority of ports. Heck, the reason Oasis homeports in FLL is because she can't clear the turn in Miami! I just wonder where that line will ultimately be drawn.

 

Personally, I think RCI made a mistake in going so much larger with the Oasis class. Quite frankly, while it is impressive, it doesn't even look like a ship. It's about 1.5x the size of their largest class of ships. If you want a ship that size, why not do a gradual increase to get there? No one started off building 100,000 ton ships back in the 1970s and 80s, cruiselines slowly worked their way there. While Oasis is a novelty now and plenty of people love it, you have to wonder if they did too much too soon. I, too, am curious to see whether or not RCI will be able to fill up those two ships further down the road, after the novelty has worn off and they are (probably) still going to the same, tired Caribbean ports. While some Caribbean ports might be willing to accommodate a ship that size with modified docking and facilities, I'm not sure how many other ports and countries will. Time will tell.

[jt1120]

While the OP brings a very good discussion to the forum, I honestly think we may see the lines go in the opposite direction. We may see the expansion of smaller ship lines, especailly like Celebrity's Azamara. I could totally see them adding two more ships to their fleet, but keeping within the current image that they have established. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet as much as it could. of course they will upcharge the heck out of the cruise, making it more exclusive and all, but if that is what the customer wants, you may see it more.

 

As for the Behemoth of the Seas, I hope they don't get so huge that you lose the whole cruise effect. My feeling is that they may start to cheapen the brand by having to provide the service that we all expect and the passenger to crew ration goes up and up. Not good.

[Rick-cruiser]

For us, it was the smaller size of the ships back then that made them so special, such a unique vacation experience.. Just by recognizing people over and over again made you start talking to them and getting to know them.. It felt like a self-contained, small "community".

 

We found some of the larger ships to be indifferent and impersonal.. The crowds and general attitude seemed to be more like you would find at a large Las Vegas resort.. It just didn't have that same comfort feeling - for us.

 

As far as people saying they sail on the larger ships for the magnificent shows.... all I can say is that, on our first cruises on the smaller ships, we found the shows to be spectacular and they received standing ovations.. Now if you need to sit with 1,500 other people and see the latest, greatest cirque de sole offering.. that's great, but that's not for us.. Not on a cruise vacation anyway.

 

I'll also never forget coming back from a shore excursion and waiting in a line a block long for an hour and a half to board the ship.. It seemed all the shore excursion busses came back at the same time and so there were close to 2400 people all needing to board the ship.. The elderly had a very hard time standing and waiting, and many people had to use a port-o-potty (thank god there was ONE - about 500 feet away) while waiting to board.. It was a mess.. I said never again.. I just don't like standing in long lines while on vacation.

 

At this point in our lives we prefer sailing on (relatively) smaller ships... those with around 1500-2000 passengers, or less.

 

- Rick

[Woobstr112G]

Couldn't agree with you more! When we sailed on the Liberty of the Seas we felt like we had been transported to Las Vegas. We didn't feel like we were on a cruise ship, but in one of the large hotels on The Strip. Didn't like it at all from the time we boarded until we disembarked. Too much glitz and too noisy for us.

I'm sure there are a great many people who will try these large ships - perhaps those who thought they wouldn't like cruising.

My hope is that Celebrity will continue to have M Class Ships, as my DH and I love the size, layout and amenities, especially the T Pool and Aqua Spa Cafe.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Although I've been cruising on Princess as of late, I did three in a row on X's M class ships. IMHO,, they are the perfect size. I'm really curious to see how the Solsticizing has changed them.....

 

Bob