Should HAL prohibit power scooters?

[sail7seas]

Before there were affordable, convenient scooters many of the people using them and those who came before them were more or less homebound. The scooter lets them Live!

 

I am well able to walk miles despite some other health issues but clearly this is an issue that matters to me.

 

The mere suggestion of taking away the ability for responsible disabled persons to be out and enjoy their lives is abhorent to me.

 

 

 

[DaveOKC]

I do not have a problem with HAL allowing the pwer scooters, as I am sure most people that have them need them. Good for them in getting out and doing things despite their problems.

 

I do ask that people who use them use good common sense and be very careful in their use however. I have had people run into me with them, as some folks seem to think that they have the run of the road because they have one.

 

One time I almost had one fall onto me. The person was coming down a ramp (a temporary one with no side rails) in a crowd it it basically got pushed/ran off the ramp. I was on the lower level and saw it falling off and onto me just in time to reach up and hold it up until some other guys came to our aid. We both could easily have been seriously injured.

 

DaveOKC

[happy cruzer]

Well, in real life people loss their scooter priviledges. Assisted care facilities have to tell some that they can no longer have a scooter or electric wheel chair, too much damage to others as well as property. Then the wheelchair is used. Only reason to mention this is as a caution to be careful with those scooters. They are wonderful and noone wants to ever lose the convenience.

[gardenbug22]

It really isn't the scooter, it is the manners or lack of for the people riding them. It doesn't matter if they are afoot or on scooters, some people are just rude, entitled and the like.

 

We. as humans always remember our negative experiences the most; however if you take the time to think of it,it's only 1- 3 out of 20 scooter riders ....(if that )who are usually rude. Why do we allow them to color our perception of the other 17- 19 ?

 

With that being said...... I have noticed quite a few of us "able bodied souls" to be incredibly rude and insensitive to "the scooter people". I wonder if any of these now mobile people would be any better acting on scooters than on foot...... if they were forced to use them to get around? Just a thought.

 

I can't imagine not being able to move about freely and stand my on my own two feet at 5'6" in a crowd of people, vs sitting on a scooter and having even the shortest of people tower over me and surround me on my scooter...How I would feel...? What an uncomfortable position to be in.

 

Maybe I would feel a bit cranky, or impatient too. I am just sayin'

 

Now about those strollers....:)

[Oceanwench]

Why ban what for some is a life line to a normalcy they would otherwise never be able to have again because of the inconsideration and irresponsibility of a few? For some, many whose health issues have zip to do with obesity, a scooter is freedom and independence. God bless them. I hope they stay mobile and active.

 

Why is our solution as a society always to punish the multitude of good, decent, trustworthy people because of the stupidity of a very few? Deal with the trouble makers on a one by one basis. Don't punish the good with the bad. Otherwise, live and let live. If it doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg, get over it.

 

Never been bothered by a scooter on land or sea. At Disney where scooters and strollers outnumber people :p, I have never had a scooter issue but have been mowed down by a great many SUV style double and triple strollers. A reckless driver took off the better part of one of my big toenails :eek: with one of those monsters one evening during the fireworks, and this after the park asks folks to not move around due to low light levels. What a mess. I yelped pretty loud. The lady just plowed on through. Lesson learned: Don't wear sandals to the Magic Kingdom. And no I wouldn't dream of outlawing strollers as most people are responsible.

 

Well said.

 

My husband is in a powerchair. He has just about no mobility.

He does not run people down, but he constantly has people run into him, or climb over him to squeeze into an elevator.

 

Powerchairs don't have brakes. He has to let go of the joystick to bring his chair to a halt. People recklessly cross in front of him. His reaction time, due to his illness, is not lightning fast.

 

I am amazed at some of the comments on this thread. The lack of compassion is amazing. Maybe someday some of you will be on the other side of the issue, and then you'll have a little more empathy.

 

As far as the Disney World comments, we are season passholders, have been for years, and we stand in the regular queues for most attractions. There are very few rides that have special entrances for people in wheelchairs. When they do, it is usually because the standard queue has some feature (stairs, narrow passageway) that would prevent a wheelchair from passing through.

[wander]

I am with gardenbug22 and oceanwench. I was left speechless by some of the comments on this thread. Scooters have certainly improved the quality of life for many, many folks, a few of which maybe should not be allowed to use one, but for the vast majority it is an amazing aid.

 

I do NOT use a scooter, nor does anyone in my family. However, I worked for 20+ years in rehabilitation hospital settings. I was there when the first scooters, as we now know them, came out - WOW, for the right people they are a marvel. For those who may not know this, they are useful for a generally different set of people than power wheelchairs.

 

Once in awhile you will see someone who uses it as a "weapon". Not good, and such behavior should not be tolerated. I am sure some Assisted Living facilities (I am very familiar with several of these) have to remove scooter use privileges from an occasional resident, but they have to have real serious and strong evidence to do so because of things like the ADA and state laws.

[chrispb]

It really isn't the scooter, it is the manners or lack of for the people riding them. It doesn't matter if they are afoot or on scooters, some people are just rude, entitled and the like.

 

We. as humans always remember our negative experiences the most; however if you take the time to think of it,it's only 1- 3 out of 20 scooter riders ....(if that )who are usually rude. Why do we allow them to color our perception of the other 17- 19 ?

 

With that being said...... I have noticed quite a few of us "able bodied souls" to be incredibly rude and insensitive to "the scooter people". I wonder if any of these now mobile people would be any better acting on scooters than on foot...... if they were forced to use them to get around? Just a thought.

 

I can't imagine not being able to move about freely and stand my on my own two feet at 5'6" in a crowd of people, vs sitting on a scooter and having even the shortest of people tower over me and surround me on my scooter...How I would feel...? What an uncomfortable position to be in.

 

 

Maybe I would feel a bit cranky, or impatient too. I am just sayin'

 

Now about those strollers....:)

 

Yes - strollers!!! Some parents use them as battering rams to move people out of their way - drives me nuts!

[KirkNC]

No, they shouldn't be banned.

 

An inconsiderate person will be inconsiderate regardless of whether they walk or use a scooter.

 

I agree, under the OP's logic we should ban cars becuase some people drink and drive.

[mamaofami]

I would bet that young children running wild in the MDR and teens doing the same around the ship , cause more accidents than people who ride scooters.

[lettienets]

Last night on CBC news they showed an invention by a young engineer of a walker that converts to a power wheelchair, very streamlined looking, very clever, ingenous really in its simplicity. Won't be long before this invention is for sale. With the aging baby boom population there will be even more devices. So the more efficient and streamlined, the better.

[dorisis]

Where? When? I don't recall ever seeing a child driving a power scooter on a cruise ship. I've seen kids stopped from playing with scooters in stores, but have rarely seen kids driving them anywhere. Also there are children and teens who have and need power wheelchairs or scooters.

As to "healthy" users, how do you know this? Scooters are also used by people who are not supposed to walk far due to various health conditions.

 

h

Hawaiidan is the only one who has seen tots on scooters just for fun.I wish we had some firm facts on injuries caused by careless scooter drivers. My husband uses a scooter and it is amazing how many folks just don't look where they are going. especially entering elevators as a scooter user is coming out. I amazed that there aren't more accidents. My husband is he picture of health bur because of a deteriorating bone in his foot walking is extremely painful.

 

We have found most passengers very courteous to scooter drivers.

[innlady1]

I would bet that young children running wild in the MDR and teens doing the same around the ship , cause more accidents than people who ride scooters.

 

I recall, several years ago, hearing of a woman who was disembarked along the way...NYC to the Caribbean on the Noordam, I believe. Spring break...and several teens mowed her down on the glass stairway. I believe she died. Anyone else remember that?

[dan1618]

The vast majority of people I see on scooters in public these days are obese. When I lived in San Francisco (I moved away 5 years ago), maybe 30% of scooter users in public were obese. Obviously there are many people that need scooters for mobility for many reasons, not just obesity. It's just become very, very common.

 

This statement just shows complete ignorance. A "majority" is over 50%. A "vast majority" is -- oh, I don't know -- maybe at least 75%. 30% is neither a majority, nor a vast majority. I suspect it may be an overestimation even -- unless of course, you were keeping count -- which I seriously doubt because of the inaccuracy of the rest of the post.

 

There is also a matter of reason for use. Go to a store that has them for use for free, and yes, some people who have a hard time getting around because of obesity may use them for convenience, but that is a different situation that owning one or renting one for on a cruise. There is not always going to be a correlation from one environment to another.

[serendipity1499]

The vast majority of people I see on scooters in public these days are obese. When I lived in San Francisco (I moved away 5 years ago), maybe 30% of scooter users in public were obese. Obviously there are many people that need scooters for mobility for many reasons, not just obesity. It's just become very, very common.

 

This thread & this post shocks me! I never saw this thread before & I'm amazed that anyone would even suggest bannning scooters..The lack of compassion in some people even shocks me more..

Have you ever considered why some people on scooters are obese?

We met a lovely lady when we came down to Fla who had MS..Her DH worked in the Airline industry & we were introduced to them at an Interline party.. She was a beautiful lady, with an equally beautiful personality & had a lovely figure..When we met her she was only using canes..However she still did chores around the house & cooked meals until it no longer became possible. We were fortunate to have known her & been guests in their home..Eventually her wonderful Husband took over the cooking & cleaning..As the years progressed our Friend went into a wheelchair & then a power scooter..Because she could no longer walk & due to meds she was taking she became obese..However she never lost her sunny & beautiful unassiming personality.

She eventually passed away but I feel fortunate to have known this lovely lady..

 

As Sail said in one post.."There by the Grace of God go I."

 

Betty

[Boatdrill]

.

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Too bad the staff dosent take a more firm hand in controlling then rampages of many little darlings when their parents fail to.

 

The "staff" ? What is this, Disneyland ? :D

 

YOU can always ask the parents to mind their children, or, tell the kids yourself. That's the easiest and quickest solution.

[Boatdrill]

Yes - strollers!!! Some parents use them as battering rams to move people out of their way - drives me nuts!

 

Strollers.....they used to be so light and easy.

 

Now they should be called "My Baby's First Limo".

[dan1618]

h

Hawaiidan is the only one who has seen tots on scooters just for fun.I wish we had some firm facts on injuries caused by careless scooter drivers. My husband uses a scooter and it is amazing how many folks just don't look where they are going. especially entering elevators as a scooter user is coming out. I amazed that there aren't more accidents. My husband is he picture of health bur because of a deteriorating bone in his foot walking is extremely painful.

 

We have found most passengers very courteous to scooter drivers.

 

Unfortunately, there is nothing to prevent people from making unsubstantiated statements. As this thread proves, there are some seriously unsympathetic and prejudiced people out there. Do careless scooter drivers sometimes cause injuries? Yes. Is there a rampant problem with people letting young children drive them? Not that I have seen. My namesake from the 50th state seems to be the only one who has witnessed that, and he has witnessed it many times, apparently. I suspect he has had ONE experience -- but that doesn't carry the same weight as declaring it to be happening all over the place. After all, HAL isn't going to ban them based on ONE incident. So exaggeration becomes necessary if you want to get people fired up -- just like exaggerating the percentage of obese people -- as though that has any bearing on the subject either.

[Typhoon1]

I doubt the ADA would allow such a prohibition.

[mamaofami]

I recall, several years ago, hearing of a woman who was disembarked along the way...NYC to the Caribbean on the Noordam, I believe. Spring break...and several teens mowed her down on the glass stairway. I believe she died. Anyone else remember that?

 

 

I don't recall it, but maybe that's why they had that stairway roped off on the Noordam.

[mamaofami]

I doubt the ADA would allow such a prohibition.

 

Do ADA rules really apply to ships that are not registered in the U.S.?

 

When I was still able to walk the ships, a woman in a scooter almost ran me over. We were walking from the MDR to the show lounge and she cut right in front of me and her companion yelled at me for not getting out of the way fast enough. I didn't even know she was behind me.

 

When I ride that route now on my scooter, I go very slowly because it is a narrow passage way and there are many people walking along .

[innlady1]

Do ADA rules really apply to ships that are not registered in the U.S.?

<snip>

 

 

I don't believe the ADA applies to ships registered outside the US.

[serendipity1499]

Do ADA rules really apply to ships that are not registered in the U.S.?

< SNIP>

Yes it does per this post by xxoocruiser

 

Quote xxoocruiser;30633365]If you had bothered to scroll back to post #50 and post #188 you would have read that the Americans Disabilities Act does apply to non-US Flagged Ships.

 

The case of Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line filed back in 2000 was the driving force for by the US Supreme Court making this ruling. On Monday June 6, 2005 the USA Supreme Courted Ruled Foreign-flagged cruise ships serving US ports must comply with the public accommodations requirements of the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA).

 

The USA Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 that cruise lines operating in US waters must take reasonable steps to make their ships accessible to all passengers - including those who use wheelchairs and electric scooters.

 

 

Last year we happened to be on board a HAL ship with Mama Lou who resides on several HAL ships.. Apparently she alternates between two or three ships..She is in her 90's & is on a walker but is very active & very vocal..She is loved by all the crew who takes very good care of her..

Mama Lou was standing in front of us in a line waiting to go into the Captains Welcome Party.. A Gentleman in a power chair got off the elevator & was just about to cut the line when Mama Lou yelled something out like, Get in the back of the line like the rest of us did! The man complied & Mama Lou got a big laugh from many of us..:D:D

Cheers...Betty

 

 

[sail7seas]

I don't recall it, but maybe that's why they had that stairway roped off on the Noordam.

 

 

It was my observation Captain Scott used to have the glass staircase roped off when the ship was moving. There might have been a fall(s)?